My 20 yo Craftsman shop vac bit the dust (pun intended) yesterday, so I find myself in the market for a new one. My first impulse is to just buy a new Craftsman but then started to look around at my options. Do folks who have the Bosch, Fein, Festool (or other brands) think the premium vac (which can cost 4 to 5x more $$) really think they are worth the extra cost? My intended use is mostly to hook up to my portable sanders, router table and occasionally out to my cars.
thanks
Jeff
Replies
I have used the Festool CT22 hooked up to their RO150FEQ (Rotex) as well as their smaller sanders and the dust collection is superb. The CT22 was able to handle 36 grit in the direct drive mode with a very minimal mess. Those two items are on my short wish list.
I would not be inclined to use the CT22 on a router table, only because of the volume of chips that would fill the bag in no time. I use my Jet DC-1100 1.5HP for that.
Forgot to mention that the CT22 will be quiter than anything that you hook up to it.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 11/23/2008 1:18 pm ET by BruceS
Edited 11/23/2008 5:40 pm ET by BruceS
For what it's worth, my story: The 23 yr. old Shop Vac died on me last spring, so I got another one (same brand; also wet/dry as was the old one). Rated the same amperage, but seems to have more suction. The really obvious difference is the noise level:I can run this one without ear plugs in & not have any discomfort. Twenty years of OSHA has made a genuine (& likeable) difference!
I have a Fein 9.77.25 (I think that's the "Turbo III") which I would pay double for if I had to and a Sears 16 gallon 5.5 hp vac. The Sears is used almost only to clean the Fein's filter, mainly because it is so darned noisy.
I can't speak too highly of the Fein. It keeps the strength of its vacuum right up to when it's full and it is QUIET! I roll it around the shop to hook it up to the router table, table saw, 6" belt sander, 6" jointer, 13" planer and 12" bandsaw.
Pete
I have the Fein Turbo II and III. I think they were a bargain. Powerful, quiet, separate cooling fan and great filtering.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
Where did you purchase yours? Is there a good source that's hopefully below list. Thanks for the help.
Eddie
I got my Fein vac on sale at Woodworker's Warehouse, at least six or seven years ago and maybe a year before they went bankrupt. It was just under $300 then. I haven't seen any real sales of them since. But as I said before the vac is worth every penny even though I know it's difficult to shift your brain away from Sears prices.
From what I've seen the only competition for the Fein is the Festool and I believe its price, for equivalent capacity, is yet another quantum jump upwards - but some others here may have better ideas.
I'll say again that the Fein is terrific. It has great suction, excellent filtering, excelent capacity and it's QUIET!
Pete
I bought mine at a local tool store. At the time the Turbo II was $299.99 (some years ago). They list on Feins website for $435.00, Amazon offers them with free shipping for $349.00.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don,I know Fein and Trend share technology but not what each calls their (identical) machine.....I have a Trend that appears to be the same as the smaller Fein. It's not only very quiet and maintains suck well but also has 3-stage filtration which they claim takes out everything down to 0.3 microns. I use it on the drum sander and there is generally no sneezes or coughs from me - unless I'm foolish enough to forget to switch the Trend to auto start/stop.The filter bags soon fill so this is an expense, a nuisance and also a limitation, as another poster mentions: high-volume producers such as the router tabe or even a portable circulr saw soon fill a bag. But it's perfect for any sanding job.The collection bag can be left off the Fein/Trend so that the sawdust is filtered only by the nylon filter bag and the concertina filter. This allows the vac to hold 2-3 times the amount of sawdust, although the nylon bag and the filter then clog a lot quicker (but this still doesn't prevent a good suck). I use the vac like this with my router table but empty/clean it before putting it back on the drum sander (with a collection bag). This bagless arrangement still seems to get fine dust, as I believe it's the concertina filter and nylon bag that get the 0.3 micron stuff rather than the paper bag.To the OP: There seems to be no all purpose vac suitable for all collection tasks. Besides a Fein or Festo type (high pressure / low volume) you need a big sucker for the large volume of sawdust from the TS, planer and so forth (low pressure / high volume). I'd recommend also an air-scrubber - one of those that cleans the whole air volume of the shed of any residual airborn dust every N minutes. (N depends on the scrubber's power and the size of your shed). Lataxe
Sir Lataxe,
I don't use the paper bags, just the 5 micron "sea anchor" filter and the hepa filter. I must confess to taking the sea anchor out in the alley when I empty the vac and back flushing it with 120 psi air. There are a few advantages in living in an industrial area!
The Feins get used for general cleanup and with the portable sanders, everything else is hooked up to the 3 horse cyclone.
I'm impressed your vac keeps up with your drum sander, the poor results with the Fein on the first drum sander I had (Delta 18-36) led to the purchase of my first dust colector.
Are you in the area that got the arctic blast we've been seeing on the news here?
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don,Today was a brilliant sunny day and the air was certainly arctic in the sense of being very dry and cold. I could look across Morecambe Bay to the English Lake District beyond and see every cranny and nook of the mountains there - very unusual as there is generally sea-murk hereabouts. I went out on the bicycle but no dew formed in the soup-strainer that lives upon my top lip, despite the huffing and quite a bit of puffing, so it must be dry, dry air.Of course tomorrow it may snow and we will all have to live on dried rhubarb and boiled iroko shavings for a week. On the other hand, the ladywife will have to skive off work through road closure and keep me warm using her various warming procedures. Ahhh!Lataxe, getting ready to snurkle-down in his nest.PS I do have a problem cleaning the very large concertina air filter on the main dust sucker. No matter how much I bang and tap it, another great cloud of dust falls out. I reached into it's innards and it seems to be well caked. Is there an effective means to blow dust off the inside of such a large thang with compressed air? (It's 3ft tall and 1 ft in diameter with many, many pleats). The dust-cake might improve the filtering but not the air flow.
Sir Lataxe,
If they are similar to the ones in the picture I use 30 psi air to backflush them. I have never gotten more than a teaspoon full out of the cleanout at the bottom though. What manner of dustsucker have you?
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don,Inevitably my dust sucker is a Scheppach - one of these:http://www.nmauk.com/scheppach/scheppach.htmlI have the cartridge filter on it rather than that cloth bag, which gets a lot more fine dust and clogs far less easily because of the increased filter-surface area. However.....The cartridge is a concertina affair enclosed in a stiff wire-mesh cage of galvanised steel with a diamond-pattern. These diamonds stop the filter getting bashed but leave only around 1 square inch between the diamonds, so it's virtually impossible to give the concertina itself a good raddle to make it drop dust. I notice many concertina-filtered dust suckers do have a raddle-lever. But not this rascal.Therefore one must whack at the cage with one's mit or even a lump of soft pine, to make it decant the caked dust on the inside into the waste sack. This is not too effective and much remains in the cake.I like that arrangement of yourn better, with a pre-collector for the big stuff. I understand that this delays filter-clog and emptying for a time...? I seem to have to empty mine once a week. However, ones such as that you picture cost a lot in the UK; and also take up more room than mine, I fear. (The shed is stuffedtobuggery already).***I envision an encasing and airtight plastic bag that one ties around the filter-cage. It has a connector for the compressor hose. I shroud the filter then release a 120psi blast from the compressor, which either de-cakes the filter immediately or splits the placky-bag with a loud pharrrrting noise........Lataxe
Sir Lataxe,
Your filter is similar to mine. My first dust sucker was a single stage Jet with the cartridge on top. It had the handle that you turned to rotate the flapper inside to knock down the accumulated dust. I never used it since it looked to me like a way to rapidly wear out the areas of the filter that it contacted. Being thrifty (cheap) by nature I did not want to be replacing the filter any more than I had to.
I found that 30 psi air blown in from the outside worked very well in removing the built up dust in the pleats. I would be hesitant to use high pressure for fear of blowing a hole in the media. It was designed for low pressure high volume after all.
If you try the sealed bag method please post the ladywife at a safe distance with a camera. I dont think it will be effective in removing the cake due to the pressure equalizing too quickly between the inside and outside of the filter but it should make for a very entertaining film when the bag pops!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Lataxe,
I hear you on the Dust Deputy--lovely piece of work, but a bit spendy. I built a cheapo preseparator based on this fellow's site: http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm
An inexpensive experiment, I was happily surprised by how well it does--even on fine MDF dust. Liked it so much I built a large one for my dust collector. If you try it out, one note is to add some sort of stiffener inside the garbage can (if that's what you use) to keep it from collapsing.
You've likely seen this before, but in case you hadn't I thought you might find it interesting. Thanks for your posts, which I enjoy.
Cheers,
Pete
Peter,That dustbin method has caught my eye and is sort-of on the list of things to do in the shed. This is a list well down the list of lists however. :-)The tip about bin-bracing sounds useful. That Scheppach has a surprising amount of suck and had already done strange things when I failed to open any of the blast gates, including the one to the machine in use.It fails to deal with the bandsaw however. I believe this to be the bandsaw design, as it seems to project it's sawdust in entirely the wrong direction to that assumed by the dust collector-paths inside the BS case. I have seen lads construct great ugly baffles clumped up with fibreglass and epoxy, in an attempt to get their BS dust into the mouth of the sucker hose.... Shurely there must be a set of clever tricks for getting a 6 square inch baffle of cardboard to achieve the desired result?Lataxe
Lataxe,
Your experience with bandsaw dust collection reassures me--I have the same problem, and haven't found an elegant solution. I'm resigned to vaccuming the insides every day it's in use. Not a big problem overall, more of a fly in the ointment.
That baffled separator takes about 1/2 hour to throw together if you have the parts on hand--not pretty, but it works fine enough. After a year of making our kitchen cabinets and miscellaneous projects, haven't emptied the DC once--99% (guessed, not measured) stops in the separator.
Cheers,
Peter
Lataxe,
Our friends at Lee Valley sell a cyclone top in two sizes. I bought the large sized one that is clear so you can see what's going on inside.
The woodshop is in chaos right now as I'm reconfiguring the tablesaws, uh I mean John Wayne saws - one will be used for dadoing and they will be facing each other - sort of dueling tablesaws ye know........
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,One o'them collection buckets has got to be had methinks, as every time I take a sack of dust off the dust-sucker I'm enveloped in a cloud, which undermines the whole point of the sucker being there really. How pleasant to just take the bin outside and upend it into the green wste collection hopper. perhaps in a week or two I'll be able to burn it in that stove......Just now I'm suffering iroko-headstuffup as even planing and spokeshaving the stuff seems to create enough dust to get in the nozzle-part. Them plane makers don't put duct-collection points on the things or even a bag for the shavings.Lataxe
Put a nice soft silicone half mask respirator with changeable cartridges on Santas list!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don,I have a face mask that takes a variety of cartridge filters and also has a pre-filter. The filtering works very well but the rubber face mask leaves one looking like a chimpanzee after an hour or two with the thing clagged to the fizzog. Also, the "alien pilot from Planet Zog" look when I have the mask, safety glases and earmuffs on has caused neighbours to make an involuntary wet-patch on the paving just outside the gate. Mrs Fossdyke had to have the smelling salts.So, the "silicon" word caught my eye. Do you have a brand or a model in mind? I would like a soft caress to my withered chop rather than the uncompromising grasp of the rubber gob-surround, which feels like Nurse Hardwicke as she encouraged one to open up for the school dentist.Lataxe, a sensitive chap.
Sir Lataxe,
The Survivair Blue 1 is my personal favorite. It seals very well with a dual flange and is very soft and comfortable. Link
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Lataxe,
Wot, yer not green no more!?
Thought the Ladywife had allowed recycling of her silk undergarments a while back for just these occasions. Just think, you could save poor Mrs. Fossdyke the expense of all those smelling salts.
Of sourse a proper downdraft table would solve everything and spare the onlookers.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob;
The sight of Sir Lataxe wearing the Ladywifes silken underthings over his head might lead to poor Mrs. Fossdyke needing more than a dose of the salts! Not to mention a trip to the headshrinker in the company of a few bobbies and registration as a sex offender!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Bob, you little peeper, it just occurred to me to ask how it is you are privy to the construction of Sir Lataxe's Ladywifes unmentionables. Please post pictures.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don,
I've never set foot in Galgate.
Tsk, tsk, tsk,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Very suspicious Bob, Veeery suspicious!
Looking forward to pictures of that John Wayne tablesaw, hope you had a good holiday.
Reminds me of John Wayne toilet paper, rough as a cob and never took no cr@p off anybody!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Oops, forgot to attach the picture.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
My two cents .................. I've outfitted my 20gal Shop Vac with a HEPA (Cleanstream) filter and filter bags and would wager a dollar or two that it's every bit as effective collecting dust/dirt as a Fein or Festool. Quieter- no way, the Fein and festool are definitely quieter than the garden variety Craftsman/ Rigid/ Shop Vac. For me noise wasn't/isn't a big issue, price/performance was. My three Shop Vacs (20,6, and 1 gal) cost less than one Fein or Festool- I'd get a little nervous with a $300+ vac around on some of the jobsites I've been on. If you do go Fein or Festool I don't think you'd be disappointed, they are quieter and I'd expect longer life because of their bypass design (a good reason for using a Cleanstream and filter bags in the less expensive vacs with their non bypass design).
Sir Winston Churchill
My vote goes to the Festool:
1. Remote start-stop of attached tools.
2. Variable suction! Extremely important when hooked to a sander. Too much suction and the sander will "stick" to the work.
3. Quiet
4.Excellent casters and low c of g. I have never tipped mine over
5. Easy, clean change of filter bags.
And the hose alone is worth the price of admission - never a kink and easy to coil.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
I know everyone loves their Festools and Fein vacs, but my 13gal shop vac works pretty well too. I recall the Festool vac is around 70db (or so), so it is a bit quieter. The nicest things I see with the european vacs are the accessories, auto start (easily mimicked with cheap electrics) and their compact size. Festool has a great arm setup for sanding and all the proper connectors. If you dont have a lot of other european power tools or plan to change to all Festool/Fein, I suggest you take a look at what you will need to connect to your existing tools. Most european tools are all metric.
Brad
FWIW, I have the Ridgid 16-gallon, 6.5 hp vac and switch it back and forth between my tablesaw and bandsaw in my very small shop. Works fine, is a bit noisy, but so are the saws. It has a removable blower that I also use to clear the leaves from my yard.
Recently, the switch on it got fussy and then froze in the open position, so last weekend I removed the switch and took it to my local HD for a replacement. The store clerk told me they didn't have a replacement switch, but the vac has a lifetime warranty. So I went back to the shop, put the switch back on, took the vac in, and went home with a new one. Nice to have that warranty.
Norman
Edited 11/25/2008 10:21 am ET by nboucher
coastaltool.com has the Fein Turbo II-FB Vacuum with the 1 micron filter for $349.00. When comparing prices be sure the 1 micron filter is included. I bought one from Costal Tool about a year ago and it is quiet, and works great. I primarly use it with a ROS.Larry
Jeff; I have an old HD hooked to an Oneida Dust Deputy. It is loud but i can sand all day and not worry about a clogged filter. I disadvantage is the dust deputy uses 11/4 hose so vacuuming up hand plane shaving is a pain because the hose clogs.
I have a rigid 16 gal 6.5 vac with a cleanstream filter and oneida dust deputy.
I use it for my drill press miter saw and sanders dust deputy collects most of dust and chips which keeps filter clean. I got vac as a clearance as it was the model with stainless canister for 99.00 a steal. Its also a lot quieter than past shop- vacs I have had. I have it set up in one corner and have extra hose to vac floor. Three lenghts of vac hose together does lose some suction but its more than enough. The tools I use as close as possible to vac for best suction.
pft:
I am also running the same 6.5 vac with a ClearVue mini-cyclone. Works great. I used 2" PVC to pipe it around the shop and loose very little suction through the smooth pipe.
Best for a great Thanksgiving!
-Jerry
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