Replies

1. 
   WayneL5 | Nov 17, 2004 05:16am | #1

   Some people say a wood floor is easier on the feet than concrete.  Most people assume that's because wood is softer.  But, the amount of compression of wood is so miniscule that I don't believe that can be it.

   It could be a framed floor is easier on the feet because of the bounce in the floor, but that would not be true if wood were laid right on top of concrete.

   I think the real reason wood is easier on the feet is that there is a little bit of slip on a smooth wood floor, and most concrete floors have so much friction that it stubs the feet and jolts the joints.

   So, I'd recommend finishing the floor so it's quite smooth, but not so slick as to be a slip hazard, and getting good insoles and light, comfortable shoes.

1. 
   townsend | Nov 17, 2004 05:30am | #2

   Wayne,

   Thanks for your comment.  I am thinking of delaying any decision to cover the floor.

2. 
   DennisS | Nov 17, 2004 08:17am | #3

   Allen -

   I had my shop floor (concrete) 'shined' by the finisher. Meaning it's about as smooth as it can get for concrete. I applied one coat of curing agent on the slab as soon as it would support foot traffic (the morning after it was finished) and another about a week later as a sealer. I couldn't bear to cover up this beautiful concrete floor. And no, it doesn't bother my legs, feet or back to be on it all day. I'd have to agree with the first reply that anything no thicker than the particle board 'tile' that was reviewed in the FWW article is unlikely to provide much of a cushion for walking or standing. You need true-to-life anti fatigue matts for that.

   As finely finished as my floor is, I've never had a problem with it being slippery even when it's covered with sawdust or shavings.

   I think unless you have existing back or leg/knee/foot problems the first line of defensive is quality footware. The warm floor will help a great deal as well.

   ...........
   From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
   Dennis
3. 
   BG | Nov 17, 2004 02:59pm | #4

   Allen t,

   I bought some of the DRIcote yesterday after reading the article in FWW and put it down on the concrete shop floor last night.  I would not be concerned about it blocking the heat from your radiant floor system...usually a radiant system has plywood and carpeting placed over it and the Dricote is not more of a blocker than that stuff.

   I just bought enough panels to cover the area in front of the workbench and lathe which happen to be adjacent. The last couple of years I've noticed significant discomfort with the cold up through my knees when in the shop for a few hours in the middle of winter.  On the other hand, in the middle of summer it's nice to be bare foot on the cold concrete when the temperature is in the 90's.  So I'll experiment for a while and see what happens....  

    

4. 
   bobpowers | Nov 17, 2004 07:19pm | #5

   Allen,

   I was in the same position four years ago. I had the shop floor made as smooth as possible, and applied two coats of a latex masonry sealer, followed by two coats of industrial grade liquid wax. The sealer and wax were applied with a mop. Annual maintenance, other than cleaning, consists of another coat of wax. I have no regrets about having done things this way.

   There are those who comment on the benefits of a wood floor being easier on the feet and legs, but my 77 year old feet and legs think the smooth concrete is just fine. Cleanup is very easy too. For shoes, I wear either boat shoes or sneakers, and have no problem slipping with either.

   The one disadvantage I find with the concrete is that it's a little tough on chisels if you drop one. Handplanes don't get along with it too well either. When I am using a tool that is likely to be damaged by dropping it, I unroll a small carpet runner that I bought at Home Depot for about $5.00.

   The radiant heat is great too.

   Regards,

   Bob

1. 
   townsend | Nov 18, 2004 03:40am | #6

   Thanks for the commments and suggestions.  Several people mentioned "polishing" the concrete.  I believe my basement floor was finished with silicone in the finish.  I think it is quite nice.  It is quite soomth and does not absorb everything.  Unfortunately, I do not remember the specifics of what was done.  Does anyone know more about this or other concrete finishes that I could specify for my workshop floor.

   Thank again

   Allen

1. 
   WayneL5 | Nov 18, 2004 04:46am | #7

   I think a steel troweled surface would be fine.  It can be nearly as smooth as glass.  The key is to get a good person to do the finishing.

   I would avoid curing agents, silicone, and the like in case you ever wanted to paint the floor.

   There are commercial surface hardening agents that are spread as a powder and troweled into the surface.  The can increase the surface hardness considerably.  I think 5 or 10 times or so.  But, I don't see the need unless you are running a manufacturing operation and dragging machinery around with fork trucks.

2. 
   DennisS | Nov 18, 2004 07:54pm | #10

   Allen -I think the key to a good smooth finish with minimal trowel marks is power troweling. Finisher's call it a 'burned' finish in our area. They use a big gas powered four trowel machine where the blades are mounted kinda like a big fan sitting on the floor. Like has been said, a lot depends on the mechanic and how experienced he/she is.There are 'fugutive' curing agents that dissipate over time so if you wanted to paint the floor you could. I would recommend using something, though, to slow the evaporation of moisture from the concrete to allow it to cure slowly and completely.There are also densifying agents that can be applied to already cured concrete that will react with the chemicals in the surface to produce a harder denser surface if needed. Horn (mfr. name) is one source of such stuff. But in the end, a well cured concrete slab should be all you need in a normal shop environment.One thing no one has mentioned yet is the subgrade preparation. Especially with respect to putting in radiant in-floor heating. You should consider a lift (layer) of 3/8" or bigger pea gravel 6" deep then a layer of 2" rigid foam insulation over that before you place your concrete. The gravel is to provide a good moisture separation between the ground and underside of the slab. The insulation is just that, insulation. I ran a strip of insulation between the slab and the walls as well to minimize heat conduction at the perimeter of the slab.Use at least 6x6 10ga welded wire mesh for reinforcement. #4 (1/2") rebar at 12" o.c. each way would be better but costlier to install. The tubing can be placed and tied over the reinforcement. It has to be held down while the concrete is being placed since it's full of air and will actually float to the surface if no constrained. Whoever supplies your tubing should also have those plastic zip ties for attaching the tubing to the wire or bar............
   From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
   Dennis

5. 
   user-114201 | Nov 18, 2004 08:27am | #8

   I work on a concrete floor all day, and I have found that my shoes make all the difference. I have two pairs of work shoes, but I wear one pair 99% of the time. The pair of Timberland shoes that I wear just seem to work with my feet, and I can work twelve hour days without the least degree of discomfort.

6. 
   WmGalloway | Nov 18, 2004 04:47pm | #9

   Check out Fine Woodworking's "Tools & Shops" issue winter 2002/2003 pgs 60 - 63. They describe plywood laid over 2X4 with sleepers and styrofoam insulation atop concrete floor. I am converting a 1950 corn crib into a shop and this is what I'm doing. I've done an area near the steps and this feels fine. I will be installing Warmboard http://www.warmboard.com/ on top of the 2X4 and insulation.