Replies

1. 
   peter28 | Sep 30, 2008 04:03am | #1

   Hi Shawn,

   When using an oil product such as that, it's best to use on raw wood. It's meant to penetrate into the wood not sit on a sealer coat. If you wanted to though, you could use your shellac as a topcoat after the oil has dried for a couple of weeks.

   However, you used so little shellac that you could quickly wipe it down with alcohol and dry as you go and you should be fine.

   When you use an oil finish like this, especially on an open pored wood like white oak, apply the oil liberally to the surface and let it sit for about fifteen minutes. Then wipe off all the excess and use a little elbow grease when you do. Be sure and check the surface repeatedly for about the next hour or so as the oil will tend to "weep" out of the pores. You'll want to wipe that away too.

   You can apply a second coat the same way or apply the oil in sections and wet sand it in with wetdry paper. A fine grit like 600 will do the trick. Again, be sure and wipe all the excess off very well.

   Be sure and get any oily rags outside at the end of the session. Hang them or lay them out flat to dry. Fail to do this and you can be sure your day will be ruined when they spontaneously combust and start a fire.

   Have fun.

   Peter

1. 
   essdog | Sep 30, 2008 10:54pm | #2

   Thanks for the great reply Peter.

   So I guess that might be the best option (stripping the seal coat of shellac with alcohol).  I think that is what you were  implying. 

   However, I have to ask if there are any other good options.  I read a couple FWW articles about applying seal coatsof shellac  to wood with wild grain and the articles said to make sure the top coats applied afterwards is compatible with shellac.   But since I forgot to get a chemistry degree, I don't know how to determine that.  I'm guessing from your last email that it is something that sits on top of the shellac like a poly but I really don't know. 

   Question: So is there an option B topcoat that can be applied over the shellac amber seal coat I already put on?

   If not, I'm happy to do your first suggestion of stripping the shellac.  I don't want a finish that peels off in 10 years or something like that.  I worked way to hard on this arts and crafts bookcase.

   Thanks again,

   Shawn

1. 
   user-83153 | Oct 01, 2008 08:09am | #3

   If I may Peter...

   Shawn,

   As Peter said the problem with using an oil/varnish mix, like the Maloof product you have, on top of a seal coat of shellac is that it is not meant to be a film forming finish. Since the wood is already sealed by the shellac the oil/varnish will not penetrate the wood and you will effectively remove what you just applied when you wipe off the excess. If you tried to leave any on there it would just form a gummy finish.

    You can simply apply a couple of additional light coats of shellac and be done with it since shellac should provide plenty of protection for a bookcase. Or if you feel you need additional protection you could use a straight varnish over the shellac you have already applied. The only compatibility issues with varnish and shellac is with a poly varnish over shellac that hasn't been de-waxed. Poly has some adhesion issues and it will not stick well to waxy shellac. I don't know if the shellac sold by Rockler is de-waxed or not, they don't say one way or the other on their website (kind of an important omission IMO). It may say on the package. If you don't know or don't want to risk it there are non-poly varnishes that will work over waxed or de-waxed shellac. Some people, including me, believe that non-poly varnishes are superior to the poly variety anyway. IMO they are clearer, more resistant to UV degradation and they yellow less over time. They also don't have the inherent adhesion issues that poly varnish does.

   If it was me, I would use shellac as the only finish. I built an arts and crafts style fireplace surround and mantle out of q-sawn white oak finished with a multi-step dye and stain finish, that has shellac as the only top coat, two years ago and it still looks great. I was a little worried that the bottom of the mantle might get too hot for the shellac but it turns out my concerns were unfounded. I don't know what gloss level you are looking for but shellac is high gloss if you just leave it alone. I usually apply a coat of wax rubbed in with 0000 steel wool. Done this way, shellac buffs out to a really nice, soft semi-gloss. To my eye a high gloss finish looks too plastic for A&C style furniture.

   You can have your pulpit back now Peter. :^)

                Rob

   Edited 10/1/2008 1:15 am ET by Rob A.

1. 
   essdog | Oct 01, 2008 07:39pm | #4

   Hi Rob and Peter,

   Thanks for the reply Rob.  I will definitely buy the book by Flexnor.  It looks like a great book.  Couple of quick questions.

   Q1: For the sake of learning, what is a varnish without poly?  (I thought poly was part of the definition of varnish)

   Q2: Is stripping the seal coat of shellac on this medium sized bookcase  with denatured alcohol a day long process, half day?

   Sounds like more shellac might be the easiest thing to do but I like learning about all the options.

   Thanks so much, 

   Shawn the novice.

1. 
   peter28 | Oct 02, 2008 04:08am | #6

   Shawn,

   #1 A varnish without poly would be an alkyd of phenolic resin type. Polyurethane resin, alkyd resin and phenolic resin are the main film forming components of a "varnish" 

   # 2 If you decide to wash off the shellac, it should take you about a half to three quarters of an hour. There really isn't that much shellac (resin) on the surface according to your first post. Have a roll of paper towels, a squirt bottle full of denatured alcohol. If you feel the need to scrub the surface at all use a scotch pad (maroon) to do this. Do it in sections and dry it as you go. Have good ventilation when you do this and make sure there are no open flames anywhere close by.

   However you got some good advice from Rob concerning shellac. It is a great finish.

   Questions are great. You'll find along the way you will get conflicting advice from time to time, it's just the nature of the beast. Nothing beats trying the different opinions you hear about on samples. It will take some time to be sure, but you'll be able to see first hand what you like and don't like.

   Read more than one book, you'll get different points of view.

   Good luck. Let us know how you do.

   Peter

2. 
   peter28 | Oct 02, 2008 03:51am | #5

   Hi Rob,

   It's been a while. I hope things are going well for you.

   I'm more than happy to share the soapbox with you. Although they don't post in here, I would always welcome the opinions of people like Howie Acheson, Rich14 and SteveSchoene. They always lend well thought out and understandable advice that comes from lots of hands on experience.

   The poster has made the rounds between here and Knots. It's good to be able to get a bunch of different opinions. Some of what he was told I wouldn't recommend such as removing the thread bare shellac with steel wool. It makes it far more messy than necessary. If I needed to use an abrasive like that, without question, a scotch pad would be my first choice. Very easy to clean out and re-use too.

   I thought about stirring the pot a little about the mixture he asked about, but thought better of it since he said he was new to finishing.

   I would be considered a heretic to question what Sam Maloof endorsed, but ........... some of the mixtures just leave me shaking my head. I don't for the life of me know why so many feel the need to reinvent the finishes available to them. Anyways just an opinion.

   Take care and keep in touch. Nice job on your answer too.

   Peter

    

    

2. 
   peter28 | Oct 02, 2008 05:00am | #7

   If you have dewaxed shellac as a sealer, you can put any type of varnish over it. In your case where the shellac is so minimal a poly wouldn't be a problem.

   Peter