1 when sharpening (by hand) should the stone be flooded w/ oil?
2 The first tome you use a stone, should it suck up the oil imedatally. after multiple uses should less absorbtion occur?
3 How wide should the micro bevel be on a plane? should there be one on a chisle?
4 When honing it daily should i just do the micro bevel?
“It is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer: it feels so good when you stop”
Replies
I don't use oil stones, so I'll leave that answer to someone else. The answers to q's 3 and 4 are:
3: A couple of degrees for a microbevel.
4: Unless you have a nick, you can simply re-hone the microbevel. Using the tool will let you know when you need to regrind. It leaves a track in the wood.
Jeff
hard arkansas just need a decent flood of oil.
India stones should come oil filled and just need a decent flood of oil.
soft arkansas stones should be soaked in oil for a few days so that they will fill.
if you don't they clog (and don't work particularly well).
2 - not if the stone was properly filled or soaked before use. if it soaks up lots of oil during use it will also draw in swarf and clog.
3 - a real micro bevel is a couple of thousands of an inch wide so it is easily removed and won't grow with each sharpening. if it's wider than a few thousands it becomes a secondary bevel. a real microbevel will increase edge retention without cnaging the effective penetration angle of the chisel. SEcondary bevels won't
4 - no - then you micro bevel becomes a secondary bevel and before you know it you have a pile of bevels.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
Andy,
1/2) I don't use an oil stone and know very few who still do.
3) The microbevel need not be any larger than 1/16". I put a microbevel on nearly all my tools, including chisels. Infact, I can't think of a tool that I don't microbevel.
4) The microbevel's greatest plus is that it allows you to spend less time sharpening. The restore the sharpness of the blade, you only need to hone the microbevel. By the way, I have never found it necessary to hone daily. Generally, if I use the tool a lot, I sharpen it every week or so. The tool's hardness and use will determine how often you need to sharpen it. The only tools I've sharpen several times a day are my turning tools and cold chisel when I'm chipping concrete.
Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
There are a lot of use who still use oil stones, in fact, I gave a way my water stones, they didn't work as well for me, and went back to my hard white Arkansas and WD-40.
If you bought a stone like a Crystalon, it will soak up light oil forever. India stones and natural ####, Arkansas, etc. shouldn't absorb too much. You can use a little heavier oil. Mineral oil is a good choice. It's sold at the drug store as a laxative. Make sure you don't use oil on a water stone.
Micro bevels are just what the name suggests, micro. They need a very fine stone to accomplish, something like 4000-8000 water stones are often used. You will only see them as a bright wire line at the very edge, if you hold it in the light, just right. Personally, I'd worry about getting a plain straight bevel before experimenting with micro bevels.
I've been buying stones and trying different sharpening methods since the 1960's, when I was young and poor. I still get a queasy feeling, 40 years later, when I think about dropping and breaking my prized Arkansas stone. Today, I use a 1000 grit water stone. I follow this with a piece of smooth leather laid on a flat surface. I put a dab of paste metal polish on the leather, it's the best of any compounds I've used. I also have the sharpest tools I've ever had and it's cheap and easy. Keep your angle on the leather, don't lift so you round off the edge. Stay flat on the back. You can renew the edge of a plane blade or chisel several times on the leather before needing a touch up on a stone, assuming you don't break the edge. Tools are back to work in a minute with no mess. It's also easy to wrap over or form a shape for carving and lathe tools.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
after using a waterstone is there a need to use a water displacement substance like WD-40 to prevent rust?
"It is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer: it feels so good when you stop"
The "water displacement substances" I use most often are cotton (rag) or paper (towel). Sometimes the thigh portion of my jeans will be called upon for water displacement duty.
Edited 2/6/2008 10:42 pm ET by Samson
"...the thigh portion of my jeans..."
100% cotton or cotton/poly blend? I'm usually wearing chinos myself....
-Steve
denim; 100% cotton
Some folks keep their water stones soaking in a tub of water. The stones won't rust, as long as they are all stone. Some diamond stones use water as a lubricant, I just wipe mine dry after use or the metal base will rust. I spray water on my water stones when using them, I use an old Windex sprayer. I wipe them down clean and put them back in their boxes when done. WD40 is an oil, i wouldn't want it on any water stone. Wipe any water that is on your tools dry. I try to limit oil in the wood shop to one small area, it has a way of getting on to something you don't want it on. I don't use oil on any of my cabinetmaking hand tools.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
hmmm - I took him to mean to protect the steel tools that have been wetted during the sharpening process. It never occurred to me that he was talking about trying to displace any water left in the stones with WD40. OP, if that's waht you meant, yeah, definitely don't do that.
no, I ment the tools
"It is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer: it feels so good when you stop"
How wide should the micro bevel be on a plane? should there be one on a chisle?
Hi Andy
As Joel noted, a true microbevel is as small as can be.... The way I create one is to grind a hollow to the edge of the blade (which is safer on a wet grinder, such as a Tormek, but can be done if careful on a dry grinder). It is now possible to freehand (or use a honing guide) to create the microbevel. I just freehand it (using a side-to-side technique) a couple of times on a course stone (until you can just feel a wire edge), then clean it up on a finishing stone. Then apply a strop. It can look like this ...
View Image
Regards from Perth
Derek
KEEP IT SIMPLE! YOU WON'T BE SORRY!
Edited 2/8/2008 7:18 am ET by BossCrunk
1 No. Flooded no. I oil my stones by inverting my corked bottle then smearing the cork on the stone. Whetstones should be covered when not in use, preferably in tight fitting wooden boxes, hand made by you.
2) dunno. Never used a new stone. (sob, sob)
3) micro, secondary, whatever you call it I like it. I do it more often on chisels than plane irons. I think its beneficial especially to oil stone users. Honing a wide bevel for every touch up is a pain. Honing less metal good. I think hollow grinds have disadvantages.
4) Yes. I strop daily or even hourly. I don't think its a bad idea. A couple swipes across a stone is a good idea. I don't do it every day though. Most of my days end with "I'll be right there"
Adam
"Most of my days end with "I'll be right there""
same here
"Andrew time for bed." "ill be right there"
Ductape can fix EVERYTHING!!!
I use only one stone, my grandfathers hard white Arkansas and I use WD-40 for honing oil, it's cheap and I like being able to just keep spraying it on.
I don't believe in micro bevels, no need for then. I hollow grind on a high speed 6" grinder and hone the edge, regind when the hollow is gone, do it by eye no jigs no BS. Sharpening is not some mystical art, just keep it simple.
Napie,
You are a boy after my own heart. I put a hollow grind on nearly everything I sharpen. Drawknife is the one exception that comes to mind, and even there, it depends on the shape of the blade.
In lieu of wd-40, I use marvel mystery oil. My dad left me a gallon of the stuff, (instead of an arkansas stone,) a lifetime supply, it looks purty, and it smells real good. Makes me crave those pink candy lozenges whenever I stop to hone a chisel...
Ray
"Makes me crave those pink candy lozenges whenever I stop to hone a chisel... " Can hardly find those these days. :-(forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
http://www.endofthecommons.com/candy.html
Great... I just spent $30.00 on candy, thanks.
Watch your wallet, here is another of my favorites.
http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/jump.jsp?itemID=868&itemType=CATEGORY&path=1%2C2%2C731&KickerID=4487&KICKER
I hope you didn't order any of those circus peanuts. Anyone over 9 who can eat those has a mental defect. ;^)
Rob
Not only that but I dip them in chocolate.
EWWWWWW!
My father was a dentist and I tried to convince him to had them out to all his patients along with a re-appointment card. He just didn't understand how one created a business demand.
You are my HERO!!!!!!! Not only do they have the pink lozenges, they have licorice jelly beans!!!!!!!!! Oh brother, in trouble now. ROFL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
Do they have Bonomo Turkish Taffy? That's the question.
Ray
Bonomo's Turkish Taffy changed hands a few times, in 1980 becoming part of Tootsie Roll Industries of Chicago, which stopped making the candy in 1989. Ellen Gordon, president of Tootsie Roll Industries, said that the company phased out the product when demand declined as tastes changed.
This is as close as Ive been able to come. Its pretty close.
http://www.oldtimecandy.com/french-chew.htm
rsaunders,
If you aren't in the candy business you know way to much about candy. :^)
Rob
Just one of lifes little pleasures! Some of those oldies are linked to great memories.
rsaunders,
Looks pretty good, perhaps I'll give it a try.
Thanks,
Ray
Hi,
Anyone ever use "drywall screen" (something you'd easily find at Home Depot) for flattening waterstones? I came across that suggestion in David Charlesworth's book on sharpening tools. He applied the drywall screen to a piece of glass.. any flat surface would do. and used it to flatten his stone.
Rob Cosman in his dvd on Hand planes and sharpening likes to use the 1000 grit waterstone to flatten his stones. So his system consists of (2) 1000 Grit Norton waterstones and an 8000 Grit stone. Says you can also use a 4000 grit stone if you like but it's not necessary. What could be simpler!
Now one more thing I read in Charlesworth book... he mentioned that stones don't usually come flat. Unfortunately, most people assume they do. I also read that some sharpening stones come with bevel edges that need to be touched up frequently to prevent the stone from eventually crumbling.. I've never heard of that happening. Now I'm not sure whether he was referrring to oil stones or waterstones. I don't remember seeing beveled edges on waterstones.
He certainly wasn't in favour of the "Scary Sharp" sharpening system. If I'm not mistaken he said it would eventually create a "bump" on the back of the chisel. so without a flat back it would make it impossible to sharpen the chisel properly. The chisel would eventually become useless.
If you keep the back of the chisel absolutely flat while sharpening (providing you are using a level surface (top of your table saw or a piece of 1/4" glass) I would think the back would remain flat. The Scary sharp method might not be the most economical or quickest way to sharpen or for that matter put the sharpest edge on your chisel but can it eventually ruin your chisels?
Wanda
I've never used it for that (I have used it for sanding drywall...), but it makes sense. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Scary sharp is fine. It's definitely not as precise as freshly flattened waterstones, but it gets the job done.
-Steve
Hi Wanda
Using drywall mesh (in 220 grit) has been around a while. I used it all the time on my King waterstones before moving to Shaptons (where I now use an extra coarse 10" DMT diamond stone). My claim to fame here is that I was the one to convince David C to try it out (a few years ago). I think it does a great job as the mesh does not clog up. On the other hand, if you mention this on the Japanese tool forum, they will laugh you off since they consider that the mesh is too uneven to producea flat stone. I say "nuts" to them.
There will be many that argue that Rob Cosman's use of two stones is a big no-no. Inevitably this will lead to a rounded surface. The two surfaces may conform to one another, but there is no guarrantee that they will be flat. One needs to do this type of flattenting with three stones, rotating them.
When flattening a waterstone, it is good practice to run the edges along the media and give them a little bevel. The binding matrix is usually just clay and this is brittle. Edges can crumble.
What stones to get? If you are using microbevels, the jump from 1000 to 6000/8000 is practical. If you are honing a full flat bevel, then add a stone between them (say 4000).
Here is my "waterstone board". Drywall mesh clamped to the left (only needs clamping at one end. It is stiff and this way you can lift it to swap away the water). To the right a clamp for the stone.
View Image
View Image
Regards from Perth
Derek
I can't help but wonder if your sharpening accoutrements require a rider on your homeowner's insurance policy...
HI Derek,
OMG! you introduced David Charlesworth to the drywalll mesh.. :)
I was thinking of ordering a 1000 grit and 8000 grit (eventually a 4000) Norton waterstone from LeeValley. I might give the mesh a try but perhaps investing in a lapping/flattening stone wouldn't be such a bad idea.
Any major differences between the King and Norton stones? I"ve heard that Shapton cut faster than the Norton Waterstones but they are also 2X as costly. Ok for the professionals. I'm only an amateur.
If I am sharpening a damaged chisel.. edge chipped /uneven ... would it be a good idea to also buy a 220 grit diamond stone for that purpose? Some people would probably use a bench grinder but according to the article I read on the scary sharp method they just use aluminum oxide paper.
When using the scary sharp method on a damaged chisel... is it ok to start with 80grit aluminum oxide paper and then move up to 180 grit and leave it at that for flattening the back? or do I have to go through all the grits to flatten the back before proceeding on to sharpen the bevel.
Right now I'm experimenting with the scary sharp method before I invest in any waterstones. I've decided not to invest in a honing jig and try it freehand.
That's a pretty cool sharpening station!
Wanda
Edited 2/11/2008 3:22 pm by Wanda200
Hi Wanda
I would avoid a 220 grit waterstone for grinding. They are soft and dish very quickly. I would also rather not get a lapping stone (for the waterstones) as they are often not flat themselves. Try the mesh - it is cheap and easy to use: using wet stones, draw a hatch of lines in pencil over the surface of the stone, and then rub them away.
For grinding either use a bench grinder (for hollow bevels), a belt sander (for flat bevels), or sandpaper (80-150-240 grit).
I have not used Nortons waterstones but I don't think that there is much between them and Kings to get into a big debate. I suspect that more would recommend Norton. I used King and was happy with them. The reason I switched to Shapton (other than getting them very cheaply - 2 on eBay and 2 as gifts) was because they held the promise of working with less water (i.e. less messy) and remaining flat longer (i.e. less maintenance). The truth is that they need the same amount of water (or they with get sticky) and one should flatten all stones constantly anyway. I do like the hardness of the Shaptons and the extra feedback they offer.
Freehand vs honing guide? I do both - freehand on all hollow ground blades, and honing guide on almost all blades used with bevel up planes.
Regards from Perth
Derek
hi Derek,
Why the honing guide with the bevel up blades? What honing guide would you recommend for sharpening those BU blades? I guess the bevel up blade will soon be the norm. Lv bu smoother vs LN #4 1/2 smoother... what's the difference .. what advantages does the BU have over the standard blade?
I'll give the 220 grit drywall screen a try.
Wanda
Why the honing guide with the bevel up blades?
Hi Wanda
I'm afraid the answer is simple but the explanation is complex.
The angle at which a plane blade cuts face grain is important, especially for those with more interlinled grains as too low an angle will lead to tear out. For these woods it is important to use a plane with a cutting angle that is 50 degrees and above. I typically use 62 degrees on Australian hardwoods.
When using planes that are set up bevel down, the cutting angle is taken from the bed/frog. So the average Stanley would have a cutting angle of 45 degrees .... regardless of the bevel angle, per se. Consequently, it makes little difference in this regard whether you hone the blade at 25, 30, 35 degrees. The cutting angle remains 45 degrees. For such blades I simply hollow grind at about 30 degrees and freehand on waterstones. I like the simplicity of this factor, but many of the BD planes are just too low for my woods, so I turn to bevel up (BU) planes.
The BU plane takes its cutting angle from a combination of the bed angle (often 12 degrees) AND the bevel angle. So a 62 degree cutting angle will require a 50 degree bevel on the blade. (Incidentally, I use "62" degrees simply because this is the closest setting to the target of about 60 degrees - nothing mystical about the "62" degree number). BU blades, since the angles are so high (e.g. 50 degrees), are easier to create using a microbevel on a low primary bevel (of say 25 degrees). So I start with a flat grind of 25 degrees (created on a belt sander), then add a 50 degree microbevel. So why the honing guide? Well, because I am not dextrous enough to hone this angle (or one close to it) freehand. And since it DOES matter what angle you hone, I use a honing guide for ease of use.
What honing guide would you recommend for sharpening those BU blades?
The easiest and most comprehensive for this task is the LV Honing Guide Mk II.
I guess the bevel up blade will soon be the norm. Lv bu smoother vs LN #4 1/2 smoother... what's the difference .. what advantages does the BU have over the standard blade?
Gad, you are not asking much :)
Simple answer ... both are superb smoothers (I own both). In many respects they are very comparible, with differences only likely to be seen when you work with very difficult grain that requires a high cutting angle. It is just more convenient to use a BU plane as it is more flexible in obtaining a high cutting angle. With lesser woods you will not be able to find much difference. Note that the #4 1/2 comes in 45, 50, and 55 degree frogs now .. all still too low for my needs, but will likely suit the woods from the USA (I have the LN Anniverary #4 1/2, which has a 50). I always recommend that potential purchasers try them out because they feel different: the #4 1/2 has a high centre of gravity, while the BUS has a low centre of gravity.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Edited 2/12/2008 7:37 pm ET by derekcohen
HI Derek,
I'm on information overload!!! :) I"m sure getting an education on planes. :) Thank god for Knots. Unfortunately, there are no places around where I live that offer demos on how to use handtools. So basically the BU is more versatile. Think I'd rather hone a bevel than bother buying various frogs for a plane.
The Mark11 by Vertitas comes highly recommended. I've seen it in action on one of the many FWW videos (getting started in woodworking episode 7).
What planes are easier to handle/work with? Would I find it easier to use a plane using a lower center of gravity? or would I find it easier using a plane with a higher center of gravity?.. OH MY! The more I delve into how to sharpen and use planes the more ?'s I keep coming up with.
At least I know which planes I"m going to buy.. and I know what equipment I need to sharpen those plane irons. That much I have sorted out. :)
Wanda
Wanda, I have the Norton waterstones, and I would recommend the 1000 and the 4000/8000 combination for you. The 4000/8000 is cheaper than the 8000, and neither side wears rapidly enough to justify the extra expense of a dedicated stone for each, IMHO. I also have the 220/1000, and agree with Derek that the 220 wears so rapidly as to hardly be useful. The 220/1000 is about the same price of the 1000, so if I had to buy them over again, I'd just get the 1000.
Do be careful about what grit of drywall mesh you use. A coarse grit will not leave a smooth surface on your polishing stones. I've used mesh, and my preference is still 320 grit wet paper. Sticks by itself when wet to my flat marble tile, obviating the need for clamps.
Regards,
Tim
Hello Tsgraz,
I realize those stones are not cheap. Cosman sells the complete set for around $200.
I was origionally thinking about buying a combination stone until I watched Cosman's video on sharpening hand planes. He uses the large 3" stones. But since the 4000 and 8000 wouldn't get as much wear as that 1000 stone you're probably right. I could save a bit of money and go with the combo 4000/8000. I just wasn't sure about the finer grit stone getting contaminated with bits of course grit from the 4000 grit stone. So if there's no problem with that then the combo stone would be a good choice. Considering I won't be sharpening that many plane irons to wear it out.
So you prefer the w/d silicone paper over mesh... hmmm I'm going to have to try out both.
Wanda
Wanda
If I had more energy today I'd try to rescue you from all this madness but all indications are it would be a waste of time.
Hmmm..
Never say never!
Wanda
Boss, I concur with your assessment of the "indications."
Wanda, this ain't rocket science. There are lots of different - AND EQUALLY VALID - methods. Pick one. Try it. If you don't like it, try another.
For what it's worth, I've tried lots of methods, and I personally think a beginner can't go wrong buing a cheap Eclipse style honing jig and three products from Norton: a 1000/4000 combo waterstone, an 8000 stone, and a flattening stone. These 4 things in hand, and you are set to sharpen anything to a very respectable edge and almost no learning curve.
We need Richard Jones to pop in with the funny sharpening story he's posted here before - the one when he was just a beginner and had to work up some edges for an old bloke.
A Lesson in Sharpening.<!----><!----><!---->
A perennial subject in woodworking magazines is that of sharpening techniques. No other furniture making topic seems to generate so many words, resulting in the publication of innumerable articles detailing ‘infallible’ or ‘sure fire’ methods of doing the job.
Naturally, the subject is of interest because blunt tools aren't much use. The opening preamble to many of these articles often cause a wry smile for they bring back memories of my initiation into the 'dark' art. Many authors make points about those that struggle at it, and possess a workshop full of dull tools. Conversely, it is often said that those that can do the job tend to be fanatical about grits, slurries and bevel angles. My experience is that there are really only two types of people when it comes to sharpening.
1. Those that can’t.
2. Those that can.
In the first group, those that can't, you'll sometimes see every sharpening system known to man arrayed around their workshop gathering dust. They have oilstones, water stones, ceramic stones, diamond stones, guides, pieces of sandpaper, jigs, etc.. Usually, every hand tool they own is chipped, dull and mostly useless.
In the second group, those that can, I haven’t observed much fanaticism about slurries, grits and bevel angles. In all the workshops I’ve worked in the only concern is to get the job done. It’s a case of, "Plane’s blunt, better sharpen it." Dig out the stone, sharpen the blade, shove it back in the plane, and get on with it. The equipment is minimal. A grinder, a stone and lubricant along with a few slips for gouges and the like.
Going back to the early seventies when I trained, learning how to sharpen tools was undertaken within the first few days. I don’t now recall precisely the order of my instruction, but it went something like this. I was handed a plane by the cabinetmaker I was assigned to and told, "Get that piece o’ wood square." I didn’t know why, but I’d done a bit of woodworking at school, so I had a vague idea what to do. I fooled around with that lump of wood for twenty or so minutes, and got it something like. All this under the watchful eye of the crusty old guy and his ever present roll-up hanging out of the corner of his mouth.
"Okay, I’ve done that." I said, "Now what do you want me to do?"
I was told to hang about for a minute whilst he picked up his square and straight edge and proceeded to scrutinise my handiwork, which was followed by a non-committal grunt and some desultory foot sweeping of the plentiful shavings on the floor. (The wood was probably only about eighty or so per cent of its original volume!)
"Now sonny, let’s do the next job," he announced. "Pull that jack plane you’ve bin usin’ apairt and let’s have a look at the iron." I did.
"Hold the iron up so’s yuh can see the cuttin' edge," he instructed. (He was a Scot.) Again I did as I was told.
"Now, can yu’ see it? Can yu’ see the ‘line o’ light’ at the shairp end there?" he wheezed, as he tapped a line of ash onto the floor and stood on it. He was referring to the shiny reflection visible when cutting edges are dull.
"Aye," I said, after a little eye narrowing, and other pretence of intelligence.
"How shairp does it look to you boy?" he enquired.
I thought about this for a moment or two, seeking the right response to my tormentor, for I hadn't really got a clue what he was talking about, and finally replied rather hopefully and a bit brightly, "Pretty shairp, I’d say."
He laughed out loud, and hacked a bit. "Dinnae be the daft bloody laddie wi’ me son. If yu’ can see it, it’s blunt. I could ride that bloody iron y'er holdin’ bare-ersed to London and back and no cut ma’sel’. Get o’er here an’ I’ll show yu’ something."
You can probably guess. Out came the oilstone from his toolbox, and quick as a flash the iron was whisking up and down the stone, flipped over, the wire edge removed, and finally it was stropped backwards and forwards on the calloused palm of his hand. You could shave with it. I know, because he demonstrated how sharp it was by slicing a few hairs off his forearm. On went the cap iron and the lot was dropped back in the plane followed by a bit of squinting along the sole from the front whilst the lever and knob were fiddled with and that was it. He took a few shavings off a piece of wood and it went back in his toolbox. It took, oh,…......a few minutes.
"Now son, that’s a shairp plane. It’s nae bloody use to me blunt. Yu’ may as well sling a soddin’ blunt yin in the bucket fur'all the use it is to me." He explained with great refinement. "I’ve aboot ten mair o’ them in that box, an’ they’re all blunt. Ah’ve bin savin ‘em for yu’. There’s a bunch a chisels too. Let’s get yu’ started."
For what felt like forever I sharpened his tools for the one and only time he allowed me to under his rheumy eyed and critical stare, and things gradually got better. After a while he stopped telling me what a "completely daft stupit wee bastit, " I was, and a bit later he started offering grudging approval. I had to sharpen some tools more than once because he kept on using and dulling them. When I’d done the lot we stopped and surveyed the days work.
"Aye, nae too bad fer a daft laddie's fust effort," he commented darkly, sucking hard on his smoke, "I think ye’ve goat whit it takes. Time’ll tell sonnie. Remember, ye’ll never be a bliddy cabinetmaker if yu’ cannae even shairpen yer feckin’ tools. Lesson over. Dinnae ferget it."
I haven't.Richard Jones Furniture
Happy now Boss? Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Let's recap, you mean you didn't need .5 micron diamond paste, 8 million grit Shaptons, a Royal Lipizzaner horsebutt strop, or rare Japanese waterstones with Plutonium lapping plate?
Edited 2/14/2008 9:11 am ET by BossCrunk
Charlie
Do you need a life?
Are you working enough? Not taking your medication? Just plain bored?
Why the need to stirr up everyone?
Play nicely in the sandpit now...
Regards from Perth
Derek
Whoopsie Daisy, somebody's had their feelings hurt.
Edited 2/14/2008 9:09 am ET by BossCrunk
No. None of those items Boss. I've only got a grindstone, a bench stone, some water, the palm of my hand, and a bit of rag. I've had to manage with that paltry collection of sharpening aids for years. My chisels and plane irons are sharp enough when they need to be. Will that do? Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Yep, that's enough.
I remember when I first read your post, I think it was back in the UBB days of the forum. Frankly it saved me a lot of angst, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. I was teetering on the brink.
Edited 2/14/2008 9:39 am ET by BossCrunk
Ha, ha. Teetering? What on? The brink of loquaciousness and conciliatory posts in woodworking forums or something like that? Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Purfekt.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
That part goes without saying...
Has anyone have any direct experience with Shapton's reference lapping plate (DRLP)? Other than the cost- $ huge $.
I'm not satisfied with any of my DMT stones (coarse, fine, and extra fine) for flattening waters. Looking for something other than Norton's SC lapper, drywall screen or "one against the other" for "calming the waters".Derek?see
http://shaptonstones.com/index.php?main_page=page_2ThanksBB
I have the drlp from shapton and it works very good.I also use the diamond on glass from shapton.I like them both.The drlp has two sides one for steel one for stones.They both cut water stone like the norton fast and will turn them into wedges if your not careful.Happened to me.Havent heard anyone take about the sharp skate.Ive been using it for couple months now.I does a perfect job when i need it.And i am really good at free hand.Hope the helps.Bye
Helps much.
If it can cut a stone down to a wedge it must be a VERY aggressive stone!Thanks. BB
When i first got the drlp it did cut very fast.It has slowed down a bit. And i have been using it for about three years now.IT may have been my right one handed style and my sharping station a little to high that caused the wedging affect.They still work fine.I didnt have any luck with the dmt plates like other did but i still have them.
Havent heard anyone take about the sharp skate
I published a review of this honing guide in October last year.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/Side%20Sharpening%20and%20The%20Sharp%20Skate.html
Also a discussion of the Side Sharpening method.
Regards from Perth
Derek
That was a very good review on the sharp skate.I dont use it every time it go to the stones.But it sure helps on my off days.Thanks.Bye
Hi BB
I'm afraid that I can't help much in regard to the Shapton plate. I use a 10" DMT Duosharp, reserving the Extra Coarse for waterstones and the Coarse for metal (blades). This works very well on my Shaptons. They end up flat - or as flat as is needed to made the transition for one stone to another easy.
I do have a theory about the level of flatness necessary - that this diminishes as you sharpen freehand, that is, a honing guide requires a higher level of flatness, and the longer the honing guide the greater the level of flattness required. Just geometry - freehand requires a shorter length of flat. I mainly sharpen freehand.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,I use guides and also do it freehand. Did you ever use the extra coarse (black) as a single stone? I don't have the duo but the much older single and it just doesn't get things flat. Not over the top flat but just a good base. Never been happy with it. I get better results on 220 SC paper on top of 1/2" center cut float glass.Perhaps I have a bad DMT black stone?How does one measure the flatness of a flattening plate? Run-out gauge? Feeler gauge under a Starrett rule? I'm not trying to be obsessive but the flattening stone to me is the start of all things..."for want of a nail the shoe was lost" thing.ThanksJohn
boilerbay,The best technique for determining flatness that I have seen is the pencil test. You just squiggle some pencil lines on your stone and then rub it on the 'whatever' you've decided to use to flatten the stone. I use 400 grit on polished granite to flatten my shaptons...very fast.
BG,
Yeah, I have been doing that for a while when I "flatten" them but my problem is the "whatever". I just don't think I'm getting a true flat from the Black DMT.If it is the problem, I'm merely transfering the error to each stone in turn. :(BB
boilerbay,If the stones did not match up the pencil marks would remain. If the stones did match up but there were hills and valleys on both then only a portion of the pencil marks would be removed and the hills and valleys would tend to flatten each other. If you don't believe all that...side sharpen and mitigate the issue all together.
Grandpa taught me how to sharpen when I was about eight; I ended up being the family edge guy after he gave me the stones. He never had any fancy equipment at all and his edges were damn near perfect.
Napie,
Aww now you've gone and taken all the mystery out of the process.
Ray
You are a boy after my own heart. I put a hollow grind on nearly everything I sharpen. Drawknife is the one exception that comes to mind, and even there, it depends on the shape of the blade.
In lieu of wd-40, I use marvel mystery oil. My dad left me a gallon of the stuff, (instead of an arkansas stone,) a lifetime supply, it looks purty, and it smells real good. Makes me crave those pink candy lozenges whenever I stop to hone a chisel...
Thanks, Ray. I've been using 3'n 1, I'll have to drop by AutoZone and pick up a bottle of Marvel.
I've also used 320/600 W/D SC sandpaper on the top of my table saw now and then.
I'm of the opinion that if it shaves hair it's sharp. YMMV.
Leon
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