I’m trying, and succeding IMO, to teach myself chip and relief carving. Without a doubt the hardest part of this skill to learn is “consistently” putting a good edge on the other then flat tools. Recently met a guy who does extensive carving, full size animals, carousel horses, etc. and excellent work I might add, but he said all he ever uses is leather for keeping an edge on his tools. Everytime he picks up a tool he puts it to the leather wheel. The only time he uses a stone is if some accident occurs. Any opinions on this? For a beginner I’m thinking it might be more effiecient.
Don
Replies
Once the tool is razor sharp then the trick is to strop it little and often.
Leather is good -- I have some snake stones for the gouges and for anything flat I have a piece of welsh slate.
Ceramic stones work great for keeping a razor edge on tools as is stroping. The problem with stroping is that if your are not skilled with this you will actually dull the tool by the smoothing over the edge. If you are serious about carving you may want to consider the purchase of a Tormek. But for starters creamic stones are a good choice because you dont have the mess as with oil stones and they give you a near mirrored edge, stroping is still followed. The draw back of ceramic stones is they remove metal slowly compared to a more abrasive oil stone, so if you nic a tool plan on spending time at the sharpening bench. For more indepth sharpening methods visit http://www.chrispye-woodcarving.com or try to locate one of his books He has two new editions out the will help you a great deal.
Dale
Ian & Timber,
I appreciate the information and I will look at the web site. A good book on sharpening tools would fit right in with all the others. ;^)
Don
> ...If you are serious about carving you may want to consider the purchase of a Tormek.
Since I didn't have any kind of decent grinder when I decided to start turning, and I definitely needed something to make sharpening things like gouges as simple and precise as possible, I swallowed hard and bought one of the Tormek machines. I have never had any regrets about it. It works great for things like bowl and roughing chisels, skews and the like.
I have never, however, managed to achive a "mirror" grind on a regular hand chisel or plane iron, though. I use the grit adjustment stone to "change" the wheel to its finer grit, use plenty of honing compound on the leather stropping wheel but I still have grind marks on the tool. This isn't such a problem with turning tools since I seem to be sharpening quite often and don't really see where such a smooth grind would be necessary for turning tools.
I'm assuming, perhaps in erro, that you own one of these machines?? If so, do you do any post-Tormek honing to get the kind of mirror finish on the ground tool bevel?
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis
Yes I do own a Tormek. I use it to roughly shape my profile in short time. To keep a razor edge with a mirror finish I use the ceramic stones and stroping. I have yet to replace the stone on my tormek, but I am considering the Koch system availible at http://www.norahallcarvingdesigns.com . To get the mirrored edge on your tools you will need to work your tools over a finer stone than the one on the Tormek before stroping. A mirror edge does not mean the tool is sharper although it does look nice. I think the further you develop your carving skills you might find yourself enjoying sharpening by hand versus the machine. But you cant beat the Tormek to give you the enital edge. I hope this helps. By the way my favorite strop is the Butz strop you can find this at Woodcraft ,for stroping I use a oxide powder and get good results.
Dale
Edited 8/19/2002 1:35:32 AM ET by timber
The best reference book on sharpening that I have found is by Leonard Lee (Lee Valley Tools?). After trying oil stones and sandpaper, this spring I bought a set of Japanese water stones (800, 1200, 4000) and have been very pleased with the fast metal removal and not worrying about getting oil residue on wood. Sandpaper would dull almost immediately and then cut no faster than oil stones.
To get mirror edge after the 4000 water stone I purchased felt buffing wheel and green (chromium oxide?) honing compound from Lee Valley.
I have since met a couple professional carvers who use power sharpening stations using 1" wide leather belt and honing compound - don't feel they can afford the time for anything else.
Don:
I agree with you on Lee's guide to sharpening. It opened some doors that I was not aware of. I also within the last year have gone to the (ugh) Japanese water stones. They are a little messy (so are broken wood fibers from a dull tool) with the clean-up, but the edges under a micro-scope are great. Haven't used the ceramics. Try them some time just for comparison. I'm not a carver except on Thanksgiving so I'm not sure how the water stones would relate to, as the original poster stated (other than flat).
Happy sharpening,
Sarge..
Sarge,
I have tried water stones and they do work great but they load up so easy. This is why I went to ceramic, but the drawback is ofcourse the are flat, but after a few hours spent with the stones and your tools you start to develop the feel of where your tool is on the stone and it really becomes efficent.
Dale
timber:
Thanks for the input on ceramic as I have not personally used. Yes, the water stones will load and are messy. So were mud pies when I was a kid, but that didn't stop me from having a good ole time.he..he.. Great edge and I fortunately have the patience and time as I'm partially retired. Haven't heard any negative about ceramic as everyone seems to have a preference. My theory is do what you feel most confident with as long as the bottom line is success. Doesn't matter if you get there in a Chevy or Cadillac as long as you get there. If you don't, get a new set of wheels!!
Happy Woodworking and drop by my place when you please. With a call-sign like timber you'd fit right in!
Sarge..
Sarge
Nice to hear back from you, I hope you enjoy your retierment and good luck with future projects.
Dale
Dale:
I still work 6 hrs. a day (hence semi-retired). I got more to do than you can shake at stick at, so I'll probaly never totally retire. Ha..
I was tired when I replied post late last nite and meant to ask what you meant by flat. Were you talking about the ceramic stone ( I assume ). Do you carve? I don't have but two tools that have a turn. A 3/8 and 1/4 mortise chisels. 90 degrees of course. I have read Lee's book, Guide To Sharpening and see how difficult it seems to sharpen angled or rounded edges. I don't carve or turn, so I wonder if there are any hidden secrets to that or just a lot of tedious work.
Taking a week as I do every two months.
Sarge..
Sarge
When I mentioned flat this was describing the ceramic stones. Sharpening gouge profiles on a flat stone is a little tedious, but if a tool needs more than a touch up then I use the Tormek. I have been wood carving for a little over three years now ,I mainly carve in relief but I also enjoy chip carving especialy the basswood plates. Over the past few years I have put together a nice assortment of tools. I also am a dealer of three brands of carving tools. I mainly sell during the fall and winter months when I hold carving club meetings at my shop. The rest of the time I am a fulltime furnituremaker in Grafton WI. If you find the time I recomend you give carving a try You may become addicted as I did.
Take Care
Dale
Dale:
Thanks for the insight on carving. I appreciate what I see but have not engaged. I have thought of it at times. Been doing the sawmill thing about 30. I was going to spend the next 30 working on finish. Ha.. Got a house full of furniture so have a little time to pursue other phases of this craft. I teach a little and also build or assist with newcomers workbenches. I've really enjoyed both. Still design and build as I use others scraps for furniture and donate vet, homeless and abused women shelters, etc.
New club local (1 year ). People come out of the woodwork to get involved in woodwork. WOW! I think I just got the start of a country-western hit..he.he. Anyway, I love the enthusiam of people that don't even have tools. They have either seen on TV or someone they know doing wood and express they would like to do something with their hands. I enjoy guiding as I was guided long ago b-4 the computer age. Back in the 70's it was hard to get hooked up with experience and few books and seminars. Fortunately, Highland Hardware was opened by at that time a Ga.Tech. grad. Hardware store it was. Woodworking supply and teaching center here in the south it has become. Sam Maloof in Oct. for my third time. Seen Frid, Klaus, Odate and Kresnov there. Sam Maloof is one of nicest people I have ever met talking shop or otherwise. I have never heard him say he is an expert, he's just a chairmaker.
Back to point, what carving tools do you recommend if one were to venture without a full commitment. I am so spread out ( and I love every minute of it, of life for that matter). I am aware good steel holds good edges. Is there a brand out there in mid-range that can get job done and not top dollar?
Thanks in advance and hey, watch out for that submarine guy ADESIGNS up your way. Put locks on your shop as you have to be very careful of those Navy guys..heh..heh..
Sarge..
Sarge
If you would like to get your feet wet in carving I would recomend a 5 piece Flexcut palm set. These tools come out of the box razor sharp and ready to go. They even come supplied with a few bandaids. The Swiss made tools known as Phiel are excellent but very pricey. Also Stubai makes a great tool but before carving, the tools need to be touched up a bit, however they are more available and more afordable then the Swiss made. Stubai is made in Austria, Flex Cut is US made. Now for chip carving you cant beat the Wayne Barton priemer knives these are also very afordable, you can get the two piece set for about $55.00. To get started I would recomend chip carving ,it is very easy to learn and all you really need for tools is one knife about $23.00 the other knife called a stab knife is not used that often but it is nice to have. The other nice thing about chip carving is you can do it right on your lap, and there is very little mess. If you are interested, this fall when I get my tools in for the season I will send you a chip carving knife, a video and a few practice blanks to try out free of charge you just pay the shipping. If you like chip carving and want to keep the supplies I will invoice you later. If you decide to try relief carving send back the chip carving supplies and I will send you a beginers relief set. These tools I listed are good choices for starting out, I Also recomend Auriou tools these are made in France but they are also as pricey as the Swiss made. Think it over and let me know if you need further help, you can contact me at [email protected].
Take care
Dale
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled