Replies

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Mar 22, 2003 03:04pm | #1

   Hi "SAILALEX",

   I use 2000# to sharpen M2 (high speed steel) plane blades.

   No problems at all.  Straight from the grinder to a sheet of 2000#, don't go to the coarser grits as they tend to 'dish' out in the middle of the sheet and 'flatten' your blade convex.

   Hope this helps,

   eddie

   edit:  Re the sales rep, the 2000# polishes better than my 1200# diamond stone (surprise, surprise).  I use a diamond stone if I need to rough hone and as the substrate for the wet & dry.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/22/2003 8:08:30 AM ET by eddie (aust)

2. 
   BG | Mar 22, 2003 05:07pm | #2

   Sailalex,

   No problems..and you could shave with the mirror finish.

3. 
   NormInFujino | Mar 22, 2003 05:11pm | #3

   I honestly don't know about such ethereal levels of "sharp," but I kinda feel someone is blowing smoke. I use only Japanese chisels, maybe they're not so metaphysically sharp that they can "zoop, zip" through an ox like Chuang Tzu's Cook Ting, but "scary sharp" certainly gets them sharp enough for wood.

   "Cook Ting was cutting up an ox for Lord Wen-hui. At every touch of his hand, every heave of his shoulder, every move of his feet, every thrust of his knee--zip! zoop! He slithered the knife along with a zing, and all was in perfect rhythm . . .

   "Ah, this is marvelous," said Lord Wen-hui. "Imagine skill reaching such heights!"

     Cook Ting laid down his knife and replied, "What I care about is the Way, which goes beyond skill. When I first began cutting up oxen, all I could see was the ox itself. After three years I no longer saw the whole ox. And now--now I got at it by spirit and don't look with my eyes. Perception and understanding have come to a stop and spirit moves where it wills. I go along with the natural makeup, strike in the big hollows, guide the knife through the big openings, and follow things as they are. So I never touch the smallest ligament or tendon, much less a main joint.

     "A good cook changes his knife once a year--because he cuts. A mediocre cook changes his knife once a month--because he hacks. I've had this knife of mine for nineteen years and I've cut up thousands of oxen with it, and yet the blade is as good as though it had just come from the grindstone. There are spaces between the joints, and the edge of the knife has really no thickness. If you insert what has no thickness into such spaces, then there's plenty of room--more than enough for the blade to play about in. That's why after nineteen years the blade of my knife is still as good as when it first came from the grindstone."

   Chuang Tzu: Basic Writings, Burton Watson, trans.

   . . .Then again, maybe if I used a diamond stone once I wouldn't have to sharpen again for nineteen years. . .

   ". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."

   Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township

1. 
   BG | Mar 22, 2003 08:08pm | #4

   Norm,

   My first job was in a butcher shop and I often worked next to a guy that had cut meat for 70 years....worked for Swift for about 40 years.  Each morning he would pull up his large tool box and remove the two padlocks to pull out his knives.  He worked mostly on chucks ie. removing the backbone from the meat, tieing up and cutting into roasts.  He could wield that knife down through the bones like your Mr. Ting.  He could also wack me with the steel anytime He saw me move the knife toward my body instead of away from my body.  I only stayed in the job 5 months...somethings you never forget.. 

2. 
   sailalex | Mar 22, 2003 09:02pm | #6

   My guess is that if the oxen are as tough as the white oak I am chiseling, nobody is going to eat them ( or do you do something with oxen other than eat them). :)

    Thanks

3. 
   sailalex | Mar 22, 2003 09:03pm | #7

   Norm, do you use a honing guide with your Japanese chisels?

1. 
   NormInFujino | Mar 23, 2003 02:34am | #9

   No, I have one, but I've never found it very effective, so I just use hand and feel. I don't think it's that difficult, but like I said, I'm not trying for some mystical realm.

   ". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."

   Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township

4. 
   TRIGGER | Mar 22, 2003 08:50pm | #5

   Lots of water on wet or dry paper and a gentle figure 8 works good for the "It's so clean, I can see my self!" look you might be after.

5. 
   wop | Mar 22, 2003 11:26pm | #8

        Sand paper works fine. If you want a honing guide for jap chisels the best is made by Richard Kell in England . It will hold chisels up to about 30mm. Dieter Schmitt at fine-tools.com in Berlin carries it or I think Garrett Wade, down side is that it is expensive.

                                                                                Philip

6. 
   MarkRoderick | Mar 24, 2003 07:23pm | #10

   I think they're full of you-know-what about the sandpaper. If the abrasive in sandpaper can abrade the metal, which it can, how could it possibly be true that its abrasion is somehow of a lower quality?

   As far as the honing guide is concerned, as someone who normally uses a honing guide for plane blades, at least wide plane blades, I'd suggest you try honing chisels by hand. Just put a hollow grind on the bevel, then use the hollow grind to feel the surface when you're honing by hand. You'll be surprised by how easy it is.

1. 
   sailalex | Mar 25, 2003 01:00am | #11

   Mark, I used to do them by hand using the hollow grind method but switched to a flat bevel via the honing guide. I just felt I had a more consistent edge. I am supposed to get a suggestion from Japan Woodworker in the next day or two; I will pass it on if it meets the need.