Replies

1. 
   Crunk | Feb 03, 2005 11:49pm | #1

   I think your honing medium is not giving you the polished edge you need.

   Most here use either waterstones or scary sharp (sandpaper on glass) for honing and polishing edges. A few still use oilstones and fewer still ceramics (my personal favorite).

   Most use a wheel only for grinding primary bevels, though I grant that's a broad generalization. Once the intitial grinding is done, the process is finished up with stones or "scary sharp." Some might suggest honing a secondary bevel. This has its advantages but it is by no means a requirement. You can certainly develop a perfectly fine edge without honing a secondary bevel.

   Also, how did you flatten the backs?

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/3/2005 4:25 pm ET by BossCrunk

1. 
   twotowers | Feb 04, 2005 01:01am | #3

   I flattened it with an oil stone. The flattening extended 1/2 inch from the blade. Is that enough?
   Jim

2. 
   twotowers | Feb 04, 2005 04:20am | #8

   Wow! What a diference!
   Jim

2. 
   MarkRoderick | Feb 04, 2005 12:40am | #2

   Yeah, BC is right, if all you're using is the grinder you've only STARTED the sharpening. You have to "hone" it, which just means more sharpening on a finer medium, either sandpaper on glass or waterstones.

   You can get instructions in 784 different places. A popular place currently is the David Charlesworth video on handplane sharpening, which you can buy at the Lie-Neilsen website.

1. 
   twotowers | Feb 04, 2005 01:03am | #4

   Damn, I figured as much. After grinding how much more time does it take? grumble.
   Jim

3. 
   Ole | Feb 04, 2005 01:10am | #5

   Try taking a look at David Charlesworth's DVD "Plane Sharpening" available at Lie Nielsen - http://www.lie-nielsen.com/library.html?cat=6 

   It teaches you a quick efficient way to get a really sharp plane iron in no time.

   Ole

   .... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

4. 
   CharlieD | Feb 04, 2005 01:53am | #6

   Sharpening is not the only possible cuprit. What plane are you using? How is the mouth of the plane set? This can be critical to avoiding tearout.

   Charlie

   I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
5. 
   Michmesquite | Feb 04, 2005 03:15am | #7

   Jim

   On most bench planes there are three adjustments necessary:

   1.  You need a straight honed edge on your blade. The actual angle is not as important as the straightness and polish of the edge. Honed means you've taken the edge to at least 8,000 grit on a Norton, Shapton or Japanese water stone equivalent. You mentioned you flattened the back about 1/2" - that's okay.

   2.  You need to be able to set the throat opening to be a close as possible to the blade and still get a shaving. You should be able to just see light and then back off the frog an 1/8 turn. The leading edge of the throat opening must be straight across and parallel to the blade edge.

   3.  You need to make sure the chipbreaker is straight and sits flat against the blade and close to the edge (1/32 max)

   I think you have a combination of #2 & #3 causing most of your problem.

   In additional to Charlesworth's excellent video, I would suggest Rob Cosman's "Hand Planing and Sharpening" (also at Lie-Nielsen) and "The Handplane Book" by Garret Hack (also at Lie-Nielsen).

   Watch your wallet when visiting this site.

   _________________________________

   Michael in San Jose

   "In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell 

1. 
   twotowers | Feb 07, 2005 04:56am | #9

   Hi Michael,
   You say to an 8,000 grit! Wow.
   What are the key waterstone grits I need to buy to do a the job right.
   I have a alluminum oxide grinder wheel which I think is 80 grit a stone that should be around 150 and a waterstone that I have no idea the grit of. I do know I get a mirror polish - but then again I don't know the grit.
   What would you ad?
   I took the frogs apart last night and found they were loose, the back frog screw loose and the throat set further back than the base of the plane. Adjusting made a big difference. On two planes I am getting a fair cut - but it is slightly thick, on the other planes there thinner than paper, perfect. thanks for the advise. If you could comment on what I need based on the above I would appreciate it.
   Best,
   Jim

1. 
   Michmesquite | Feb 07, 2005 06:30am | #10

   Jim

   A lot of guys get away with 1000-4000 grit combos. A lot of guys have good luck with the Scary Sharp method. I think most Neandertals use water stones for their everyday sharpening needs.

   Water stones.

   Japanese Water Stones http://www.japanwoodworker.com . This is a great store and will give excellent advice over the phone and prompt catalog service.

   Norton Water Stones http://www.thebestings.com . I have a set of these stones: 220, 1000, 4000 & 8000 grit. These stones cut fast but also wear fast. I would order an extra 220 for flattening if you don't get the flattening plate I mentioned earlier in the thread. I have had great service from this store.

   Shapton Ceramic Stones http://www.shaptonstones.com I have not used ceramic stones but I have friends who have and they believe they are better than the Norton water stones. They wear longer than the Norton's._________________________________

   Michael in San Jose

   "In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell 

2. 
   Crunk | Feb 08, 2005 12:37am | #11

   Jim, you need to stop and buy a book or two before proceeding. 

   You can get an old book, Planecraft on the web or from Woodcraft.  It's fairly inexpensive and a good read.  It won't teach you squat about waterstones, but a lot of really fine woodworking was done on edges honed by other still very viable means.

6. 
   mvac | Feb 08, 2005 01:22am | #12

   Jim,

   I agree with Michael that the angle isn't as important as the three things he mentioned. That said, 25* is a pretty low angle for a bench plane, more likely effective for a low-angle block plane. Charlesworth suggests creating a 25* or 23* bevel, then going to 33* for the main angle and adding a "micro-angle" of 35*.

   I wonder how much more effective and enjoyable your planing would be if you combined more effective sharpening techniques with a higher angle for your standard bench planes, say Nos. 4 through 7. Just a thought,

   Mitch

   "I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."

1. 
   Jellyrug | Feb 08, 2005 02:13am | #13

   Jim,

   I just got into the hand plane game and did all the right things in sharpening, after thorough research.

   I bought a number of old Stanleys on Ebay, a Lie Nielsen 62, low angle Jack and a Veritas 4 1/2, tuned and sharpened each plane.

   Did a lot of planing this week-end and tested all except the #7

   On all my smoothing planes, I used a main bevel of 30, with a micro bevel of 2, giving me effectively 32 degrees. That is a total pitch angle of 45, with a clearance angle of 13 degrees.

   On the Lie Nielsen low angle, I used the 25 main bevel as shipped and honed a bevel of 13 degrees, giving me effectively 38 degrees. That is a total pitch angle of 50, with a clearance angle of 12  degrees. The plan here was hard figured, with less tear-out.

   While I admit, the Lie Nielsen is a very well made heirloom plane, with these angles my 1930 made Stanley #5, takes a lot less horse power and I don't see much difference in tearout, planing figured Cherry.

   Based on this I believe a 30 degree main bevel with a 2 degree micro bevel is ideal.

   For the low angle Jack, I will change to exactly the same blade angles, one day when I have to regrind the main bevel.

2. 
   Peter36 | Feb 08, 2005 12:27pm | #14

   Hi guys. I'm seeing a bit of confusion here. A bench plane has the bevel down and therefore the angle that it is sharpened at has no effect, the plane blade stays bedded at 45*. David Charlesworth sharpens at 23* so he can extend the amount of waterstone honing he can do before he needs to go to the grinder. Low angle planes, are just that, they are designed to smooth end grain where you need a very low angle of attack. They are a compromise when planing face grain and need there bevels steepened to imitate a bench plane. Hope this helps.   Peter

1. 
   cicero | Feb 08, 2005 01:41pm | #15

   A bit puzzled here,if A bench plane has the bevel down and therefore the angle that it is sharpened at has no effect, the plane blade stays bedded at 45*.

   If the angle has no effect,then why have any angle at all?

2. 
   Jellyrug | Feb 08, 2005 07:12pm | #16

   Peter,

   The clearance angle, is the angle between your bevel (bevel down) and the wood surface. Although the blade stays at 45, changing the bevel angle, changes the clearance angle.  This makes quite a difference. Soft woods, a 25 bevel, with a 20 clearance angle is recommended and for hard woods the bevel should be 30 or above, giving a 15 or smaller clearance angle.

1. 
   cicero | Feb 09, 2005 02:55am | #17

   So the angle does matter:-)