Replies

1. 
   Floss | Apr 17, 2009 02:52pm | #1

   Make a cardboard template.

   F.

1. 
   JayS | Apr 21, 2009 08:52pm | #2

   I tried that and it's not as straightforward as you make it sound.  I used mat board which cuts cleanly and holds a nicer edge than corrugated cardboard.  I made as accurate a template as I could, using files to refine the contour.  When I traced it and bandsawed the wood, of course, there were gaps.  Gradually filing and trimming the edges was extremely tedious and I spent almost 4 frustrating hours trying to get it to fit.  There are still small gaps.  Of course the front edge of the knife deck board is beveled at about 60 degrees and the edge is serpentine, with two flats.  Often timming one area created a gap in another area.  If I rrim too much the board will get too short in the rear.  Once iI do get it to fit I will have to rout a small cove along the edge.  There has got to be a better technique.  Please keep in mind that I have 35 yrs experience with woodworking, and as an eye surgeon in my other life, excellent hand skills.  Any suggestions welcome.  If it would help, I'll post a few photos.  Thanks again.

   Jay

1. 
   joinerswork | Apr 21, 2009 09:38pm | #3

   Jay,

   It has been a while since I built these:

   http://www.davidraypine.com/portfolio.php?spgmGal=Other&spgmPic=6&spgmFilters=#pic

   But my recollection is something like you are doing.  I cut the deck from qtrsawn stuff with grain running side to side, and made it initially to the exact dimension side to side, but over wide front to back.  Laid it in place, and reaching thru the bottom of the box with a sharp pencil, traced the profile of the front onto the underside of the deck.  (Trying to make a template yields a "second generation" fit when you transfer those lines to the deck- twice as much chance for error.)  Saw out - leaving the pencil line showing- then sneak up on a fit with files and chisels.  Cut to final width at back when "close enough" at front.   Glue block in place when satisfied.

   It is a fussy job, no doubt about it. The whole project is very time consuming.  But you know that already don't you? ;-)

   Ray

1. 
   JayS | Apr 22, 2009 04:21am | #4

   Ray,
   Thanks. Unfortunately, having not anticipated this problem, I built the box with the bottom in place, so unless I can train a hamster to do it from the inside, I can't trace as you described. What I did was to trace the outside contour and then using a compass tried to duplicate the inside contour from that line. That came close, but still some minor variability. I don't mind the time and fussiness, but I'm not happy with the result so far. Any other creative ideas? thanks,
   Jay

1. 
   joinerswork | Apr 22, 2009 04:11pm | #5

   Jay,

   Oh.  How are you planning to attach the deck when you get it to fit?

   How about working a rabbet, if not all round, then just along the deck's front edge?  Only need be 1/16" or so that the lip overhangs the serpentine edge, enough to hide any discrepancy in the fit.  Of course you'd have to relieve the inside of the lid's edge to accomodate the deck's encroachment on the joining surface of the lid and case.

   Ray

2. 
   JayS | Apr 22, 2009 04:23pm | #6

   A rabbet sounds like an excellent idea, although I'm not sure how I would get a router bit to bear on that 60 degree beleveled, veneered edge. The bit would be perpendicular to the top edge, not parallel to the inner surface.  I was planning to have the deck rest on small glue blocks positioned about 1/4 inch beneath the top edge.  The deck is 3/8 in thick before veneering, so it will protrude up about 1/4 inch, which gives the height for a small cove at the edge. 

    How would you make that rabbet?  Since the box is assembled I can't use a shoulder plane.  I might have to make a 60 degree wedge to attach to the base of a router, and even then I don't know how I would control the depth of cut on the inside of the box.

   Thanks for your help.

   Jay

3. 
   joinerswork | Apr 23, 2009 02:25am | #8

   Jay,

   I was talking about rabbetting the edge of the deck, not the case.  Scribe a line along the shaped edge parallel to the top surface of the deck, and another 1/16" or so back from the shaped edge.  Pare down to the straight line, and back to the new shaped edge line.  The shaped contours need not match perfectly, and any gaps between the straight surfaces will be less noticeable as you'd have to be looking up at the join to see into the crack.

   Ray

4. 
   JayS | Apr 23, 2009 05:32am | #9

   Yes, much easier to cut the rabbet on the deck than the case, but what about these two problems: First, I've already cut the rear of the deck since it had to be angled downward with the rear end sitting on the back of the box and the front end inside the box. This angulation was making the fit inaccurate. Now that the back end is cut, the rabbet will make the deck 1/16 inch short. I suppose I could glue on a small strip to make up the difference. It would be a strip of short grain however, since my grain runs from front to back. Problem number two is how to relieve the upper lid to accommodate the fact that the rabbeted deck would now sit slightly proud of the surface and impinge upon the lid as it closes. That surface is veneered also, otherwise I would just carve out a little chamfer. I guess I could cut a chamfer and then re-veneer that. THanks again.
   Jay

5. 
   joinerswork | Apr 23, 2009 03:03pm | #10

   Jay,

    I understand your reluctance to start over and make a new deck, which you would have to do to have a rabbet on its edge, or to try again for a better fitting drop in deck..

   I think part of your difficulty has been in shaping the end grain of the deck.  It's easier to work edge grain. 

   And if you've already cut it so it will drop in, that allows for no (or very little) more fitting.  I guess you're done, if you can live with what you've got.

   Ray

6. 
   JayS | Apr 23, 2009 03:46pm | #11

   For all the hours invested in this I don't mind making a new deck.  I haven't even started to make the cut outs for the silerware.  I can orient the grain the other way and do the rabbet by hand with carving tools.  Still ,how would you address the impingement of the top on the deck, which will have been moved forward 1/16 inch?  The veneered inside edge of the serpentine top is not something that can be cared out or rabeeted as it would be virtually impossible to re-veneer that cut-out.  Thanks,

   Jay

7. 
   joinerswork | Apr 23, 2009 07:55pm | #12

   Jay,

   First thing comes to my mind is applying a cockbead around the bottom of the lid. This could be bevelled on its back (inside) corner to accomodate the coved edge of the deck. A cockbead is commonly found in this location, as it not a bad idea anyway, to protect the veneer from dings and crumbles, and, not least, to hide any slight mis-alignment in hanging the lid. Damhikt :-)

   Ray

8. 
   JayS | Apr 24, 2009 05:57pm | #13

   I like it!

   There is a very slight difference in the ocntour of the front of the box compared to the front o fthe lid.  Would you do a cockbead on the outside of the lip whcih would be visible with the box closed, or only on the inside of the lid?

   Jay

9. 
   joinerswork | Apr 25, 2009 04:53am | #14

   Jay,

   Well, you've lost me there. 

   Standard procedure is to make the box and lid all of a piece so that their contours are one and the same, then cut off the lid.  If the cockbead will hide the difference between the two,  along with the little oochey that running the last screw into the hinge moved it over :-(  all the better.  That is at least half the reason for putting it on. The other half is just  for pretty;-)

   Ray

10. 
    JayS | Apr 25, 2009 06:43am | #15

    Well,
    I had considered that but I was in part guided by an article in the publication of the American Society of Period Furniture makers, that made the lid separately from the box, partly due to the limitation of the height of the bandsaw blade to cut the contour on the front. I then spokeshaved to smooth it and created more variation than I had expected.
    Jay

11. 
    joinerswork | Apr 27, 2009 06:18am | #16

    Jay,

    "created more variation than I had expected."

    I believe I have done that once or twice myself ;-)

    Ray

2. 
   Floss | Apr 22, 2009 10:43pm | #7

   Jay,You could use a piece of paper taped to the top of the case, then rub the side of a pencil on the paper to get the profile.Cutting and fitting is a matter of trial and error as you have found out.Chalk can help for these types of situations to let you know where the high spots are. Rub it on the edge of the deck and remove ahe spots where the chalk remains.If you want to cut a rabbet then use a cutting gauge with a split dowell attached to the face of tha gauge. Then cut the baseline of the rabbet and use some chisels and carving tools to clean out the waste.Either way it will take some time.However, 4 hours seems like a lot, but not unreasonable.Try the paper and attach to mat board again.Look for a decent fit, may not be air tight.Remember, "better is the enemy of good".F.