How do you do it using scary sharp technique. Do you glue the sandpaper to the glass or do you just float with water. Are you using the new 3M micro abrasives?
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Replies
swifty,
you know those granite blocks, four inches thick, two feet long, twelve inches wide, that weigh 150 pounds and are flat to within one millionth of an inch? i float the wet/dry on this using used motor oil thinned with mineral spirits. most of the time, however, i just use a norton stone followed with a stropping.
gee, i hope this thread goes on for a while. i miss those really long ones...
eef
I just shake my water stones at the iron, and it gets so scared it sharpens quickly. ;-)
I've only used wet/dry sandpaper a couple of times, so I'm no expert. Also, I'm one of those nano-worriers, so I worry about those tiny little bits of sprayed-on adhesive creating an uneven surface that would telegraph to the edge of the iron. Thus, I used water only, and only put pressure on the blade during the pull stroke, holding the paper in place with my other hand.
I use a granite lapping block, and spray it with water before putting the paper on. Generally, I use the paper (180 - 220 - 400) only when working on my primary ~25 bevel, and then move to waterstones.
Tempered glass with self adhesive rolls of sand-paper from Klingspors.. 80.. 120.. 320.. for intial flattening then 600.. 1200.. 2000 from that point forward. I strop often during a project and hone with the 600.. 1200.. 2000 after each project. A drop of oil on those last three wet-dry papers.
I prefer to sharpen with this, held at a 25° angle.
Jeff
Oh, and that's free hand, without a jig
I tried sandpaper for a couple months several years ago as an alternative to oil stones. My experience was that the sandpaper was significantly less effective (dull) after even a couple dozen strokes. It became too expensive for me, so I switched to water stones.
Not too fond of sandpaper sharpening. I've seen enough edge dubbing to know it takes great techninique to avoid it. For me I'll stick with oil stones. (Perhaps it's because of what I have invested in my Norton Translucent Hard Arkansas that I hesitate to re-tool for water stones. The problem with sand paper, especially paper not well adhered to it's substate is that a little give or rolling ahead of the blade, and you can dub or round the edge. This is a particular problem on the back, making it very difficult to sharpen chisels, where the backs must be really flat in order to pare properly.
I agree with all that Steve has written. My preference is Shapton waterstones (for their hardness). When I do use sandpaper, which is preferred when flattening backs of blades. I glue it to a glass substrate. This minimises any dubbing as the paper can/does move and bunch up.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek
Shapton make some very
Derek
Shapton make some very nice stuff indeed. I have been using waterstones for years and I think I would like to add a couple things to the sharpening table: Shapton glssstone series stuff. Craftsman Studio.com has been sending me a little info on this "new innovation" and I'm curious if you have tried these?
I know you are not keen on diamond paste from a couple your past posts but maybe this application is an upgrade?
I guess it comes down to Shapton waterstones or the glassstones.
When you have a moment I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
dan
Hi dan
I have the Pro Shaptons. They cost a little more but are twice the thickness of the Glasstones, and better value in that sense. I do not think that one is significantly better than the other in actual use. (I actually epoxied my Shapton pros to glass plates for extra rigidity, and so they are now sort-of glasstones :) )
With regard diamond paste, I have used it - and, in fact, still do occasionally - but just do not find it as convenient as the waterstones (more correctly, Shaptons are ceramic stones).
Regards from Perth
Derek
I just received my new set of Shapton Glass stone set from Craftsman Studios. The have a special now, get a holder for the three glass stones and on the bottom ,you turn it over and it has a holder to place the glass stones as you use it. My initial experience has been excellent . I did lap with
320 wet and dry sandpaper on a granite block
I started out using spray tac from 3m but it was a pain to scrape off the residue from y granite slab (I got it from woodcraft for 25 bucks) I've found that a spritz of water and wet/dry paper will stick itself to the granite with no issues at all. I use up through 600 grit and a couple laps with a piece of leather does the job for me and it will shave hair off the arm (my test). I use the angel guide from veritas and use progressive grits doing each till the scratches from the previous grit dissapears. When I can look at the edge and its a mirror, I do the shave test and done. Works great. I also use the hunk of rock on the bottom shelf of my bench to had mass and stability to the bench. Go to a autopaint supply store and you can get grits up in the thousands and a sheet will last a long time. I just cut a piece wide enough to do what I'm working on which for me is plane blades and chisels.
I use sandpaper clamped with a simple piece of angle aluminum. Using a jig I only sharpen on the pull stroke. Starting at 600, working up to 2,000 and finishing with cast coated paper (free) gives me a superb edge. Others are correct when they say sandpaper is not cost efficient in the long run. Having seen the Lie-Nielsen folks use the Shapton's at a woodworking show I think that will be my next system.
I just went to the local home center and picked up a granite floor tile, which is flat and cheap. Spray it with water, put down a sheet of wet-dry sandpaper and the capilary action will hold down the sandpaper. You don't need anything else, especially if you are using a jig to hold the the chisel or plane blade. Works a charm. I bought pack of assorted grits up to about 1200, and you can get a mirror finish. You can also lap small planes this way, although use WD4 instead of water.
That said, if you are sharpening a bunch of tools it's a bit of a nuisance to keep swaping out the sandpaper. I've actually switched to waterstones on the theory that they are cheaper in the long run, although I don't have the Shaptons.
I tried scary sharp for a bit to see what all the excitement was about, but I didn't care to fuss with all that sandpaper.
But to get flat surfaces cheap, here's a tip. When I was buying a granite vanity top a while back, I got permission to do some dumpster diving out back in the dumpster where they tossed their broken hunks of granite, among other things. I retrieved a couple thick hunks of polished, dead-flat granite that were plenty big enough to hold a half-sheet of sandpaper. I use them to flatten my waterstones.
When I first started woodworking I used sandpaper floated on glass with water. I showed my chisels to Frank Klaus at a woodworking show. He looked at the backs of my chisels and asked, "Vy are de edches zo round?". There was enough flex in the paper floated on water as to slightly round over the edges on the backs of the chisels. I now use the Shapton Pro waterstones and am ecstatically happy with them.
Swifty,
You asked a question which is so fraught with problems that the answers from everyone will be different, and reading them can drive you crazy. I learned the hard way. I read the original article on scary sharp, and I bought all of the grits of sandpaper and got the float glass and I ran into the problems of attaching the sandpaper, and I practiced and practiced and practiced. After a while, I got so that the edges were REALLY SCARY SHARP. ABSOLUTE MIRRORS.
But I wasn't sure this is the method I wanted to use. It has the problem of continually changing paper, which is a bother.
Well, read the FWW article in which they did a test of all of the methods of sharpening. It was a great contest. THey used waterstones, oilstones, scary sharp, etc etc etc. Guess which one won. Well, it was close. They all worked well. (REMEMBER THAT! Every method works if you have the skill.) But Scary Sharp was the winner. The reason is obvious. With stones, you only have two or three different grits. With Scary, you have a dozen of grits (or more) so the steps are smaller, and you really can get to a scary edge.
Well, I bought a great oilstone (Norton Hard Translucent) and I learned to use it. Nice but it is a pain to get the oil out, etc. So I tried waterstones. I tried both Kingstones and Norton, but not Shapton (too expensive). Both work fine. It is a bit of a pain to get the water out, but it is fast and works great.
So what have I settled on? Well, I am an eclectic. When I carve, I only keep a single stone on my bench, a ceramic ultra-fine. It is used dry and works wonderfully to hone carving gouges. I know a bunch of carvers who have moved to ceramics for their gouges.
For my hand plane irons, I use Norton waterstones for sharpening, but there is an exception. If I buy a Lie Nielsen plane, I can flatten the back of the iron using a 1000 grit Norton. But if I get an old Stanley, then it would take weeks to flatten the back on a 1000 grit Norton waterstone, so I use Scary Sharp (sandpaper on glass to get started). I'll try 120 grit, and if that takes too long, I'll go to 80 grit, and then work up to 120 and 220 and then go to my Norton 1000 and then to the Norton 8000.
Sometimes I use my Norton oilstones, just to "commune with the woodworkers of previous centuries". It if a joy to use, but it isn't as fast as the waterstones.
No matter what method you use, the real answer is in developing the skill. START WITH CHEAP OLD CHISELS OR PLANE BLACES. IT is easy to really screw up the sides of a narrow chisel using scary sharp. It is easy to lift up on the handle of a chisel and round the edge of a blade when flattening the back.
The only way to get over these mistakes is to practice them, and actually make the mistakes, and get by them.
All of the methods work. All have their pluses and minuses. Find one that you like and use it until you have made all of the mistakes and have learned how to avoid them.
It took me a long time to get to enjoy sharpening using waterstones. Now I have it down to a system, and I can put a great edge on my chisels or plane irons in less than two minutes, including preparation and clean up. It just takes a few seconds actually, But it took me a long time to find a "system" that works for me.
The big problem with waterstones is keeping them flat. I tried everything. I settled on using a DMT rough diamondstone. Works like a charm. Fast and easy to clean. It costs a third of the price of a Shapton flattening stone, which is ungodly expensive.
For a great "system" for sharpening using waterstones, go to
http://www.lie-nielsen.com//pdf/Sharpening.pdf
and download the instructions. Follow them closely and completely until they become second nature. Use the side clamping jig they recommend. Make a jig for setting the angle. I used to sharpen by hand (no jig). I still do every once in a while, but I gotta tell you, I have learned to use this system and to do a blade in less than a minute, without rushing.
I hope this helps. Feel free to ask me questions.
HAVE FUN. You will learn, and then you will wonder why you ever worried about it.
Mel
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