If you all are tired of hearing me rave about the sawstop, please say the word and I will rave to myself. But I like sharing this stuff, and my wife doesn’t really get it.
Had the saw for about a month. It is a constant source of pleasure. When I turn the wheel to raise and lower the blade, there is no resistence whatsoever. I use the blade guard constantly because its not some big ugly thing which always gets in the way (nice slim profile which even looks cool). I switched over to the riving knife without the guard yesterday for a cut- took all of about 15 seconds- and when done actually reversed the process and put the guard back on. Cut 2 pieces of veneer- 3 hp saw went throught the cherry like a hot knife through butter. There is no dust in my cabinet and precious little on the top- I don’t get sprayed with sawdust as I did in the past- kinda like that. Had a contractor friend and his wife over for dinner last weekend. He just about wet his pants when he saw and made some cuts on the sawstop.
I guess I like it so far. PMM
Replies
"Cut 2 pieces of veneer- 3 hp saw went throught the cherry like a hot knife through butter."
Man, I'da thunk it would take AT LEAST 5 hp to slice up some 1/32" cherry! (I've always used my 5 HP butter knife for this, but it just doesn't seem to "cut it".) Fess up -- you "scarry sharpen" your saw blade.
;-)
Kidding aside, I'm jealous.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Do you mean that you were resawing a board into veneer, or that you cut through veneer sheets?
Greg
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Exo 35:30-35
Do you need SawStop to cut veneer sheets? I use to cut 'em with my utility knife....
masrolsumairi
Well, don't let him wet his pants then sit on the saw.
Rave on. It's the detractors that bore the hell out of me.
Vic
Please stop. I can't buy my SawStop until I sell the house I'm renovating. Great timing on my part. Housing market down, tool prices going up, all I can do is watch.
Will a SawStop cut a 2x4? Maybe I can justify it.
". . .When I turn the wheel to raise and lower the blade, there is no resistence whatsoever. . .
There is no dust in my cabinet and precious little on the top. . ."
Give it a year or so. We've had ours for almost three years now. One of the first shipped. Granted it's a school shop and we use it quite a bit. You'll soon find the 4" port is wholly inadequate and over time the cabinet will fill with debris. Blade raising and lowering will become as much of a pain as with any other saw as soon as the screws get clogged with dust.
Ted,
What is your maintenance schedule for machinery? I wipe my tabletops and fences down and apply Boeshield atleast weekly - sometimes daily if they get used a lot. Every six months, I do a total cleaning: vacuum out any dust inside, lube everything, check tightness of bolts, and check positive stops and relative squareness.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
When I can spare the time or have a worker do it we clean out the cabinet maybe once every three months or so. The top gets waxed a couple of times a year.
Chris
I move my saw in and out on rollers. So every time I get ready to move it back I turn on the DC and take my air nozzle with 6" tip and blow out the cabinet. Takes 15 secs to do so. To me it is easier to keep up with it, but I can still see pitch buildup on the trunion, top of the motor etc. All the places where dust hits with full force and packs together. That is work to clean up.
It seems to me the problem with most Table Saws and a the 4" port is there are to many ways for the air to get in. We need high velocity and air flow at the blade and some strategic holes or pipes to direct airflow across builup points, the bottom and into the 4" port. I have a huge open spot above the motor shroud that accomodates the motor position when it is tilted to 45degrees. Also a lot of gaps under the table mounting to the cabinet, around the handles etc. An 8" duct with a 5 hp motor overcomes all of this, but if the saws were designed a bit more, a 4" duct and 800 CFM and 1.5 HP system would work as well. Kind of the ricer vs muscle car idea.
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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Have you (or anyone else) tried expanding the 4" port to 5 or 6 inches?
I had a sheet metal guy make me a 7" port for the Unisaw. That is the diameter of the main dust collector duct. Big difference. Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Baudi,I enlarged the port on my SawStop from 4" to 6" with a 4" 1/8 bend inside the 6" wye I used to fab up the port. The 4" inner pipe hooks to the flex coming off the blade shroud and the balance of the 6" pipe sucks the cabinet. I have the 4" pipe riveted/epoxied to the top of the 6" port, so the leftover air can suck down low to keep the cabinet floor clean.While not perfect, my dust collection on this saw is very improved from the factory setup. The saw has plenty of openings into the cabinet to supply the air the 6" port can move.There is a small amount (<1/2 cupful) of dust that collects in the dead zones of the floor inside the cabinet, plus a tad spits out the curved slot in front, but only coarser dust. The larger airflow seems to get all the fine dust, which is the primary health consideration. A little dust also spits off the back of the blade, but the guard keeps it out of my face.This SawStop is the first tablesaw I have ever owned on which I happily use the supplied clear guard. It truly is a fine machine. I would like to convince the college to get one.Bill
Thanks Bill. How much suck does your DC have? Mine is the 2.5 HP Oneida cyclone. I guess that's be enough to do something similar?
David
Yes, your 2.5 hp Oneida should easily handle a 6" line. I have a 5 hp ClearVue Max cyclone, and the saw is right off the final run of the 8" trunk line.Bill
Bill,
How did you enlarge the exhaust port on the saw?
David
Baudi,The factory port is a ~14 gauge tube tack welded at 4 places to the cabinet. I cut those welds with a thin blade on a mini grinder and finished the cut with a hacksaw blade fit into the gap between tube and sheet.Once the tube was gone I laid out the larger hole to include the old hole and cut it out with a jigsaw using a Progressor metal-cutting blade. Right next to the cord junction box I had to use a reciprocating saw because there was no room for the jigsaw's base.My port was fabbed from a 22 gauge 6" wye. I cut tabs in the edge that goes onto the saw so that some were inside and some outside the hole in the cabinet. These were all bent to align with the cabinet and pop-riveted into place using 1/8" steel pop rivets. Finally I sealed the join with urethane caulking and made a cleanout cover for the other inlet to the wye. I would have used an elbow (easier) if I'd had one handy, but I had a wye so I used that.From this adapter the 6" pipe runs back to the trunk line, with a short section of flex line in the vertical up portion, allowing for some saw movement as needed. Piping is steel, laser-welded, with gasketed clamps at the joints.BillBill
Bill,
Thanks very much for your detailed explanation. I'll probably do something similar soon, and it helps a lot to have your experience to lean on.
David
Bill, any chance of a pic or two inside your saw?
Brad,Here are two photos. One shows a 6" wye fitting that I fixed and sealed to the cabinet in place of the OEM 4" thimble. This required a large elliptical hole. I made the hole so that its bottom came very close to the cabinet floor to collect the dust resting on the floor. You probably cannot see this, but there is a 4" 1/8 bend (45) pop-riveted to the TOP of the inside of the 6" wye.In the second photo, you can see the 6" wye with the 4" fitting inside of it, connected to the 4" hose that leads to the blade shroud. The airflow gets divided up between the two areas (shroud and cabinet) and does a much better job than the original setup. I am sure one could do even better with greater resources, and I hope SawStop improves this on their next product revision.This is my first time uploading pix to the forum. Hope it works.Bill
<<and I hope SawStop improves this on their next product revision.>>Totally agree. Here is what I did to mine.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Peter
I have a couple of questions. Does your modification keep dust in the cabinet down to tolerable level and what size of DC do you have connected to your saw.
Mike
Define tolerable :-)Yes it does help. I know that sounds vague. I only clean out about 1/4 of the original buildup. And about twice less often. The correct way of doing it would be to install appropriate baffles that direct all the accumulating stuff right into the dust collector opening.A la Unisaw. I was thinking of doing this but did not want to chance hindering the cooling airflow to the motor. The DC is a 2HP Oneida. It has a 7 inch opening and I continued that size to the SawStop.Hope this helps.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Peter
Define tolerable :-) I guess I should have said does it seem to be a worth your efforts or something like that. If you only have to clean the cabinet half as often it is probably worth the time invested. The reason I asked what size DC you have is I wasn't sure if my 2hp General would be big enough for six or seven inch ducting, presently all my lines are four inch but I've thought of changing the main trunk to a six inch up to my table saw but wasn't sure if it would improve the dust collection. Thanks for your reply.
Mike
Mike,One benefit that cannot be easily seen is the removal of invisible fine dust. This is where the bigger duct really shines. Going from 4" to 6" at the saw with your 2 hp collector will double the volume of air being removed, which doubles the velocity of the air rushing in at the saw's many openings. This velocity is what you need to catch the fine dust that forms a long-lasting airborne suspension. It is the smallest particles that pose the greatest health risk. Particles under 3 microns are the worst. The gross dust that you sweep up is mostly the bigger stuff that pose a minimal health hazard. The fine stuff fills the air in your shop and eventually settles out as a fine film everywhere.Bill
Thanks very much for the info Bill, I think I will try something like that with my SawStop ICS. I wasn't sure if my DC would be big enough for the larger diameter pipe, but this makes me think it should work. Thanks again.
Mike
Peter,That looks like 8" pipe...4 times the airflow! Did you just stick the 4" flex into the 8" pipe, or is there something else going on there?I only used the 45 because it had to turn hard right and I figured the flex would have to be longer and I had the 45 to do that, plus it keeps things controlled in the cabinet, so the flex cannot get in the way of the tilt.Bill
It is a 7 inch pipe. That is the opening of the Oneida DC and I continued the diameter to the SawStop. The last few feet are via a flexible 7 inch pipe. It allowed me to make a gentle curve to the saw.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
No need. 4" fine for cat. Cat goes in. Terrier follows. Repeat every three months. No dust. Blade goes up and down like new. Wash Dog, dog cleans cat. Everyone wins. DC? What DC. We Don't need no stinkin DC. Just cat.BB
The Sawstop aparenly is popular enough that they use it in the Radio City Music Hall. (saw it while on a tour in NY)
there's no need to reinvent the wrench
"The Sawstop aparenly is popular enough that they use it in the Radio City Music Hall."
Must have really nice legs!
;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
lol
there's no need to reinvent the wrench
On a more serious note (other than the cat):-)-
Most DC systems are designed for nominal collection. I would think reduction from a high power 6" down to factory 4" would be more than sufficient unless your going for total dust collection, which given all other shop variables, blade width changes, throat plates, front dado shootout, etc, I don't think is possible. Enlarging the intake would decrease pressure. Sealing the machine tighter against greater dust leakage hinders rather than helps. The tighter the seal, the less vacuum - no flow through. Starvation. Then there is vortex blow-out. The faster the air flow, the more the directional turbulence increase with dust being thrown out of the vacuum air stream into surrounding areas. An example would be resident dust at the very entrance of the curved adjustment wheel slot. Air flowing into the dust chamber will carry most dust to the DC but some will immediately be thrown radially in the opposite direction back at you at the same relative velocity. Same for some of dust coming off the lower front portion of the blade.
Some people do run intake vents (holes cut in top of fence)in front of the blade off their sealed fence rail (one end) going back to the 4" feed for additional fine dust control at saw top level.
Some of the best DC systems I have seen involve a separate clean air intake port / hose far enough from the dust source as to create high flow through.Short of laminar air flow (clean rooms) You might be chasing a spook.
Then again, you might not be.RegardsJohnEdit tighter the seal, the less "effective" vacuum
Edited 5/28/2008 8:48 pm by boilerbay
I'll be interested to hear Bill's reaction to your comments. He seems to think that the 6" mod is much better than the 4" original.
David
I can only talk about my cyclone, but unlike a shop vac that can be significantly reduced in diameter and the velocity keeps increasing, cyclones cavitate much sooner - they rely on moving lots of unrestricted air. You want to work hard to keep the velocity the same in the system. Going from 6" trunk to 4" saw inlet cuts the surface area in half and therefore reduces flow by half as well (it speeds up a little, so lets say by 40%). I haven't set up a flow meter yet to explicity test it, saving that for a cold winter evening when I run out of projects (!).
"Blade raising and lowering will become as much of a pain as with any other saw as soon as the screws get clogged with dust." And this would be the saw's problem, or yours??? Too funny.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Well the original post marveled at the ease of the blade raising and lowering. I was simply pointing out that the blade raising and lowering on the Sawstop is pretty much like on any other cabinet saw and will suffer the same issues as any other saw.
hey ted,
you're teaching in california, i take it. how's your budget, IMA funds, CTE monies? you say the saw was bought three years ago. i'm at the high school level and i was just plain lucky to get what little i got this year. what any of us could do with just a few seconds of "budget" dedicated for war-huh?
eef
At the post secondary level in OH. The university is in pretty much near bankruptcy. Hanging on by our claws. However there still is some budget to go around. Don't know where its coming from. I'm just paid to spend it.
ted,
every once in a while this nice lady shows up and informs me that there's money for a field trip, convention attendance or some stipend. i don't know where it comes from either. i am fortunate to have work.
eef
pmm,
Rave on, Buddy.
I love to see a happy woodworker. It is great to hear you feel so good about a tool, and it is great for you to share that with others. I am only into woodworking because it makes me feel good. I don't really need the furniture. Luckily my kids take it all.
I got a tool a few months ago, and I feel the same way about it. I don't know how I lived without it. It is a Triton SuperJaws, which is a self-standing vice that holds your workpiece with up to a ton of force, merely by pressing down a foot lever to lock the piece in. I use it for carving logs with power carving tools. This tool is a joy to behold. It is a nice piece of engineering.
Like you, I am not trying to tell anyone else to buy it. I am saying the most important thing in woodworking -- IT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD WHEN I USE THIS TOOL. Shout it from the rooftops. There are others out there who share the joy of a woodworker who has found a good tool.
Attached is a photo of me with my SuperJaws. You probably can't tell from the photo, but I am smiling.
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Rave on!!!!
I'm with you on this one. I love using my SawStop as well. It's a fantastic piece of woodworking equipment.
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