I noticed on the Sawstop web sight that they have changed the release date of their contractors saw until “late 2007”. Originally it was to be released in late 2006. It looks as though some unrealistic, poor business planning is taking place at Sawstop. Perhaps the big boys at Delta and the other companies don’t have to be so fearful of the worlds safest saw, at least not anytime soon.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
We've already well past "late 2006." The message reads " RELEASE DATE: Late 2007 CURRENT STATUS: Production tooling design in progress. "
on their site. Perhaps instead of poor planning, they are trying to make it better or more affordable. I guess we'll see what actually happenes when it happens.
Previously it said the release date was late 2006. I even called them last year and the lady told me it would be released at the end of the year (2006). As I said before they are a year behind schedule.
Did anyone else see Ask This Old House last weekend? Tom Silva did the hotdog test on a contractor Sawstop. They must have gotten pre-release saw for the demonstration, but the working prototype looked good.
The Sawstop web sight originally stated the contractors saw would be available in “late 2006”. Then early in 2007 they changed the message to read “field testing in progress”. Now they say it will be available in “late 2007”. I have no doubt it will be a great saw, but unfortunately they screwed up by raising expectations about when the saw would be released, and it’s a shame. In some ways it is similar to Airbus and their scheduled release date for the cargo version of their new large plane. The date was way off and they have lost most of their orders. I suspect Tom Silva had one of the “field testing units”.
Release dates are almost always wrong and too optimistic, you seem to be gloating over a minor set back.
As to their success and whether or not the other companies should worry, they have sold over 5,000 of their cabinet model saws and many commercial and educational shops are buying them in quantity, Sawstop is doing well by all accounts.
I have no interest in the company, but we do have one of their saws in our shop, that we purchased at full price, and I continue to find it a quality tool.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
I’m not gloating. Since I can’t afford their cabinet saw I had an interest in their contractor’s saw. As a matter of fact when I called their company last year I asked the lady in they were selling stock in their company. But you have to admit, being an entire year off schedule is a pretty big deal. You can always understand the release date being off a month or two, but obviously they ran into some kind of a real issue. As of right now they are not even giving a date, just a targeted period in a year.
My apologies --- I misread your post. Yes, it would be nice if they could get one to market sooner, but it should be worth the wait.
Last I heard they were deciding whether to sell the contractor saw direct or through distribution. Hopefully it's through distribution so I can get it serviced fairly easily...
release dates are usually way off base, especially when you're buying sourced product.
mike
John and Mike, thanks for the "back-up" on this one. It amazes me how many people "bad mouth" companies, especially SawStop. If I recall, both Delta and Powermatic had or are still having, problems with the release date of their new drill presses that are supposed to be so fantastic for woodworkers and Porter Cable keeps delaying the release of their new dovetail jig. Those are only some recent delays that I can recall. I don't see any "gloats" about these delays. Delays like this are part of any manufacturing process. I'd much rather see a company "get it right" before the product reaches the market instead of seeing a lot of recalls. For those waiting for the SawStop contractor's saw the delay is unfortunate, but I'm sure the product when it does ship will be worth the wait.
Yes, I'll admit that I'm planning to purchase a SawStop next week. I have determined that it is the best saw for me and I have the cash to pay for it (tax refund checks). No, I don't think it is the saw for everyone. I fully respect those who purchase other saws. In fact, my shop is all different colors. My tools are the ones that I thought gave me the best value for the type of woodworking that I want to do not because they were made by a particular company. For me the SawStop is the best value, but I fully understand why some think it is not right for them. BTW -- No, I'm not rich. I'm a school teacher; need I say more?
I'm patiently waiting for the contractor saw too. I'd buy the cabinet saw but can't find anyone to help me carry it down my basement steps.
My fingers are worth more than $3000.
While you would need some help and a good hand truck, moving a cabinet saw the size of the Saw Stop down a set of basement stairs in not difficult, I've done it many times. With the wings and bars not yet installed, the saw itself is small enough to maneuver easily.
If you didn't want to do the job yourself, a two man crew from a local moving company could do the job quickly and easily in under an hour. Moving the saw is no worse than moving a refrigerator.
John W.
Really!?! I wasn't sure how big the cabinet part would be let alone the weight. I bought a 15" spiral cut Powermatic planer a couple of years ago and had to take it apart into three to get it down the steps. My brother and I used a dolly to bring the top part down. The thing must have weighed 300 lbs and nearly broke our backs. He told me he'd never help me move and take that thing back upstairs. That's why I stayed away from getting a new cabinet saw. I figured I'd have the same problem. Do you have any idea how much the cabinet part weighs? If it's reasonable I'll buy one this summer.
Mvflaim,
I just got my SawStop delivered last week. I agree with John White. Get a moving company to deliver it to your basement. The main crate is not that big, but it weighs 659 lbs. I paid $110 to have it delivered from Woodcraft here in San Antonio to the middle of my shop floor. It was money well spent. The two guys who delivered it knew what they were doing and had it moved in in no time. I could have given hernias to myself and half the neighborhood trying to move it in self help. After they delivered it I used an engine hoist to lift it off the pallet and set it in a mobile base. Piece of cake! The rest of the setup went smoothly. It is one sweet machine. Love it!
GeorgeYou don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. - Michael Pritchard<!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!---->
I assume you got the cabinet saw. Do you have any idea what it weighs after it is unpacked? By chance do they send a replacement cartridge so you can do the hot-dog test? I'm happy for you. I suspect you have the best of all the saws.
Steve,
According to the crate the net weight of the saw itself is 549 lbs. Then in separate packages you have the fence, fence rails, etc. which are no lightweights. No they didn't send a practice cartridge :-( But the practice would not be cheap since you also destroy a saw blade in the process.
GeorgeYou don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. - Michael Pritchard<!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!---->
When I moved my '52 Unisaw into my basement shop, I did it in three loads, the top, the cabinet and the motor. Of course, this was an old R/I motor and weighs about 100lbs by itself. I was able to accomplish this with just my son (23 years old, 130 lbs) and myself (44 and 230lbs). Wasn't difficult at all.Jim"There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other is that heat comes from the furnace." - Aldo Leopold
The more complicated design of the Saw Stop makes it impractical to break down the saw the way you did your Unisaw, but most conventional cabinet saws can be disassembled for moving if needed.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
"I'd buy the cabinet saw but can't find anyone to help me carry it down my basement steps. " If the Egyptians built the pyramids, you can figure out a way to get that saw down into your basement! <grin> People here will help develop a method -- I remember at least two threads involving getting a saw or jointer into a basement.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Are you people trying to make my feel guilty for using the excuse about not getting it in my basement as the reason for me not buying a Saw Stop? : ) If I can figure out a sure fire way to get it down, I'm sure I'll get one. It'll last me a lifetime.
mike
You got it, Mike. ROFL!! Why let a little thing like gravity get in the way??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It's the same deal as the launch of their cabinet saw. If I remember correctly it was at least a two year wait from the time we got on the waiting list. And even though there was an awful lot of product development it was well worth the wait. I suspect the contractors saw will live up to the same expectations. Patience is a virtue.
I don’t know the people at Sawstop but I have a lot of respect for what they have accomplished. If they were a publicly held company I’d buy a few shares as a long term investment. I just think they would be well served to get some proper marketing/planning people involved in the process. One has to be careful in the early days of a company because great products can end up on the waste pile if peoples expectations are not met.
This afternoon I talked to the salesman in Los Angeles where I'm buying my SawStop. I'm buying one next week when I get back from a trip. He just set one aside for me. For no extra charge over those "required" by SwaStop they will uncrate my saw, install it on a mobile base (that I'm purchasing from them), install my pigtail (cord and plug), check and set all tolerances, start the saw and check the motor etc., give me a demonstration of the brake (on a demonstrator model in their showroom), ship it out to my home and place it in my shop ($50 added for truck with a liftgate). If all goes well I will have it in my shop by Thursday. Now, that's what I call service.
Anyone know why they didn't opt for a hybrid format instead of the contractor saw design? Cost to manufacturer shouldn't be too much more.
If you’re asking “why they didn't opt for a hybrid format” on their contractors saw - I don’t know it for a fact but I suspect they couldn’t. It has been a while since I read about the product and looked at the pictures but I believe the safety system requires that things be designed differently, at least on the inside.
Woe be it to the unfortunate bloke that actually uses it like a contractor might - loaded in and out of a truck all the time, drizzled and flurried on in transit, used around a jobsite, hard.
I hope those cartridge electronics are stout. Really stout.
I'd find out if this has been addressed unless you intend to use it in the friendly confines of your home workshop.
Edited 4/5/2007 3:40 pm ET by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
What percentage of "contractor saws" are actually used in the field, I wonder? Eliminate the Rigid, Bosch and whatever else comes with a built-in stand, and I'd guess a very, very small percentage.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Contractors stopped using contractor's saws years ago.
John W.
Edited 4/5/2007 4:16 pm ET by JohnWW
Funny, I saw a guy driving down the street with a Delta in the back of his F-250 today. Ladder racks, etc. Looked like he was on his way to a job site to me.
I can see where one would come in handy running trim in a big custom home. Custom library, that kind of stuff. Drop the baby in the garage, maybe with a small router table, jointer and planer. That sound far-fetched to you?
Edited 4/6/2007 11:08 am ET by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
"Contractors stopped using contractor's saws years ago."
John,
There are an awful lot of contractors in Hawaii and Arizona who apparently never got the memo.
Rich
I'm talking from own experience here in New England and almost everyone in this area went over to the much easier to handle machines made by Bosch, DeWalt, and Ridgid years ago. I switched over at least 25 years ago. In my opinion, and it is strictly just my opinion, only a masochist would still drag around a cast iron contractor's saw from job to job.
I just asked my colleagues at Fine Homebuilding and they said yes, there are a few guys who still drag contractor's saws around, mostly older guys with old saws that won't die, but by far most contractors use the modern job site saws.
John White
I think it depends on the job. When I was a sub I used to take the Makita benchtop if it was a smaller project (less than a week or so). If I was trimming out a house where I might be working for a few weeks or more I'd set up the delta contractors saw. I had always found the runout on some of the smaller bench saws to be unacceptable especially when cutting hardwoods like Oak or Cherry. Even though the Delta wouldn't leave the perfect cut either it was far more acceptable than the ratty edge I'd get off the Makita.
John, you made a bit of a sweeping statement. Yep, I don't expect to see the tract house boys using one but the guys doing big customs are.
I would still be extremely impressed with the SawStop outfit if I knew that they spec'd a beefier cartridge case or something for their contractor's saws. This in acknowledgement, like my original post mentioned, that they might not all be used in the friendly confines of a dedicated shop.
Edited 4/6/2007 11:14 am ET by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
The best of the modern saws are more accurate and much easier to handle than the old contractor's saws, so the guys still using the old Deltas aren't gaining anything by continuing to use them, but they probably grew up with them and a few will continue to use them until the day they die. The saws themselves will never die, whatever their other flaws, they are tough.
So are some crews still using them, sure, but they are in the minority and very few contractor's style saws are being bought new today to be used on construction sites, which was the point of my original comment about where the new Saw Stop saws would be used.
The cartridges on the Saw Stops are pretty tough already, they're designed to absorb the impact of several pounds of metal going 60 mph and they are deep inside of the saw's cabinet. Short of firing a bullet throgh the saw it would be almost impossible to damage the cartridge.
John W.
Edited 4/6/2007 11:32 am ET by JohnWW
Who said "old" ?
I am under the impression that this type of saw is available in Europe, or is Sawstop the first?
Pedro
The Saw Stop machine has a European style riving knife which gives better protection against kickback, but the Saw Stop brake is only on their saws.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Thanks for the info, John
Pedro
I talked to a dealer today who sells Saw Stop and he told me that he just heard the contractor saw will be available this summer. He didn't know what the price would be but he guesstimated around $1500-$2000. The cabinet saw is $2800 for the saw only and $400 extra for the destination/delivery charge which brings it to $3200. I imagine the contractor saw will have a delivery charge as well but not sure if it'll be the same amount.
mike
If the dealer is right perhaps the folks at Sawstop have gotten smart when it comes to marketing. By putting a release date of “late 2007” on their web sight and then beating the date by putting it out this summer, they will appear to surpass expectations and look good. Politicians do it all the time by lowering expectations.
Maybe they were thinking "better safe than sorry" when it came to a release date. The dealer told me they sold 90 of the cabinet saws within nine months and are expecting to sell double the amount of contractor saws. Delta (Pentair at the time) and Jet/Powermatic (WHM Tool Group), really blew it by not signing up with this guy when they had a chance....
Edited 4/6/2007 11:17 pm ET by mvflaim
I hope they can sell more than 290 contractor saws in the first 9 months. Word has it that the big boys (Delta & the others) had 2 primary concerns. 1. Price point, they were afraid with the redesign required in the basic saw systems because of the safety feature, it would cost too much. 2. Safety, they were afraid people would think their safety was guaranteed under all conditions and the lawsuits would begin flying as soon as the idiots of the world slapped the running blade and lost their hands. Considering the fact they have to put many cautionary labels on every basic ladder that is sold, I suspect lawsuits in the power tool business could quickly become overwhelming.
I'm glad someone brought it up, it's the story that I remember the most every time I read or hear about SawStop. These guys tried selling the technology to every manufacturer they could get a meeting with and finally after 5 or 6 years, I think, they decided to build their own tablesaw product. I remember reading this decision in FWW, in fact. Have to give them credit for that kind of perseverance, and though it doesn't always play out this way, it looks like it's going to pay off for them. Kudos.
I agree. It's what happens when a guy has a dream and passion to change the industry when corporate accountants and product managers tell you the market won't buy your product because it doesn't fit into their current target market segments.
I just added to their "bottom line." The SawStop that I purchased this morning is being delivered tomorrow afternoon. My dealer, Eagle Tools in LA, has gone over and beyond what I'd consider great customer service. I greatly appreciate all their help in making this purchase as easy as possible.
The dealer I talked to Edward B Mueller in Cincy did the same thing. Even took me in the backroom to show me the size of the crate and explained how it came apart for it to go down the basement steps. Gotta love those independent dealers!
Eagle tools has already uncrated my SawStop and checked all operation features and the tolerances. I saw the spec sheet taped to the saw yesterday when I bought it. Before they ship it out to me today, they will install my pigtail and place it on a mobile base. For just $50 (actual cost quoted by shipper was $175) they are delivering it to my home on a truck with a liftgate and the truck driver will roll it into my garage (shop).
Wow.... that's a good deal!
6 mo. - 1 year is nothing, I seem to recall seeing a prototype w/a 700 buck price tag way back in 2003. I think it was even in one of our host's rags.
I'm sure Delta/PM have nothing to worry about because they are scrambling to develop their own version.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled