Ok tell me about this stuff. what is ggod or bad about it? How well does it do in a water enviroment? Costs about the same as Phillipene Mahogany ( meranti) and I have worked a little with that. how do the two compare?
Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
” If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy……..yessa!”
Replies
Howdy - I'm a student a North Bennet St. School and I just finished my toolbox using SIPO mahogany, which is very similar to sapelle. A fellow student finished his in sapelle. We both ended up with a lot of quartersawn pieces that is quite ribbony and difficult to hand plane. I used a 60 deg cutting angle (on a bevel up plane) while the other fellow scraped. The wood is also pretty chippy at corners, etc. However, both his and my stock pieces survived the jointer / planer well enough with no problem. I used the Sam Maloof oil/poly blend which turned out quite nice. One major difference is that the sapelle turned out rather orange, although this may be due to the fact he used shellac on his piece.
Beautifull work. Id expect nothing less from North Bennet St students. My projects are somewhat tamer that what you are showing....... no dovetails on a kids boat. Beautiful work though. What are the door panels made of?
Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
I used soft maple then ebonized with a solution of steel wool soaked in vinegar (soaked for about 2 weeks before usage) alternating with another solution of tannic acid. I went through about 4 iterations of both. Information about this can be found on the web. Brian Boggs visited the school and he uses this technique apparently on some of his stuff. Would I do it again? Not sure. I can't stand vinegar.Another point. I bought the wood at Highland Hardwoods in NH, and they recommended sipo over sapelle, although I can't remember why. If you are in NH you may be familiar with Highland. They may be able to elaborate.
Hi quaffer,I've recently had a very similar experience to you with the quarter-sawn ribbon grain. It's currently a 'work in progress'. I have some interesting observations. Despite the grain running in both directions there's still a definite 'better' direction to plane. I also found that pulling my clifton #4 (45deg blade angle) in this direction gives me a better surface (less tearout) than pushing in the same direction. Although I have no idea why this would be. Any ideas?Setting a tight mouth and having a sharp blade are essential, although I always had some tearout which the card scraper seems to take care of nicely. I also notice that scratches on the back of the #4 blade, so I'm guessing that the fibers deflect some and then come back up after the blade has passed.Best regards
Hmmm. Interesting how pulling worked better than pushing. I'll try that next time!
Incidentally - you have a very nice toolbox there!Best regards,
Paul
Hi John, Quaffer described the species well. It cuts by machine nicely but it defies the simplest of hand tools. The grain runs in different directions from ribbon to ribbon and through the thickness. I was cutting in some hinge gains, cut within an 1/8" of the end of the mortice and wanted to chisel out that little bit that was left. Even going 1/32" at a time, it would tear in.
I burn my scraps in the woodstove. I'll often split up pieces with a hatchet. One little tap is all that's needed with just about any wood. Not the sappele, meranti or kayha. You have to pound the daylights out of it, using the hatchet as a splitting wedge. I took a picture of a little piece I split. It shows how tough this stuff is.
I turned some columns for a cabinet and planned to do some carving on them. I practiced on some scrap. I've never had anything that was so difficult. I nixed the carving on the job, I would have ruined the columns.
Just watch your grain direction and use sharp cutters. I know you prefer to use hand tools but you might have to cave in to the router, planer and jointer if working with these species. Kayha and sapelle oxidize very quickly and it doesn't take much light. Make sure you don't stack something on a piece over night or you will see discoloring. It will be one of the most beautiful woods you have ever seen as you work it. It shimmers with pink and copper luminescence. I wish there was a way to keep it that way. It's still nice looking, the ribbons add a lot of interest. I have a picture of some color samples I did for the piece I'm staining today. I went with the top color. Meranti is a lot tougher and often a darker red. I did a deck with that a while back. All three are African species, I think.
hey Buddy.wanna Race?? note the pic of the new ( last year at this time ) bike below.What a beautiful bike. ( my grandson is kinda cute too)
Back to wood...... I have a commission for some small wooden boats. I bought some Meranti to do them up and at the same time I bought a single board of Sapelle to see how it would work in the application. Yes its true I do prefer to use hand tools but for this project I use my sanding station a lot, my router table and my band saw for shaping the pieces. I use my jointer to dress up the edges afetr glue up so this application has very little hand work in it. I have a couple pieces of the stuff glued up in the shop and I am going to experiment with it today. I will treat the boats with Waterlox Marine finish. I was curious about the woods reaction to water. Is it like Meranti in that it stands up well?
I always loved this forum and since I have been doing a bit of production work , the questions I have had about various things has all been answered very well. Long live American sawdust makers!
By the way......152 hp ......hold on momma, daddy has the urge to twist the wire!Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
I don't know how the species will stand up to water. I don't think I'd be too concerned with a bathtub boat. The weight of the lumber may help to keep it floating upright.Congratulations on your grandson, he looks like a chip off the old block. Welcome to the world of four cylinder bliss. I bought my Yamaha the year before BMW came out with their fours. Love the 1200 R. I've been pulled over three times this year in my car, only warnings, but not once on the FZ1, go figure. Warp speed, Scotty!Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Sapele doesn't have the weather resistance that the true mahoganies (Swietenia) do, but I can't imagine that it matters in a toy boat. The question of weather resistance really only applies when the wood remains wet for days or weeks at a time. If the wood has a chance to dry out between dunkings, just about any wood will do fine.
The name "meranti" covers a wide range of species in the genus Shorea, and the weather resistance varies tremendously from one species to another within the genus. As a rule of thumb, the species that are darker in color are more weather resistant than the ones that are lighter.
-Steve
if the wood looks good and I can seal it with Waterlox..it will be fine Im sure. The wood does seem a bit lite in weight
Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Hammer,
I have just read through these posts quickly and noticed that you erroneously think Meranti, Sapele and Khaya are African species.
Meranti or Philippine Mahogany is from Asia (Indonesia, Malaya and similar). There are several types of Meranti which is quite versatile- some of them can be filled and tarted up to look mighty good. Meranti generally is light.
The other two are African. Sapele (mahogany) is best when quarter sawn otherwise it can be unstable. Plywood manufacturers love it.
None of these three have anything to do with real mahogany (Sweitenia macrophylla), but Khaya can be selected to look just like it if not better-see some that I used .The lavatory seat shows bleaching by sunlight- the finish is a catalysed polylac which has lasted some 17 years.
All three are relatively easily worked with hand tools, especially Meranti which can be quite soft.
Philip Marcou
Thanks for the clarification on meranti. I didn't realize there were so many different types. I've only seen dark red here and it's tough stuff. You folks in Australia and New Zealand get to see species we don't, here in New England. Sapele, kayha and perhaps other species are lumped together as African mahogany at suppliers. I don't actually know what species it is, other than what they claim. The African is less than half the cost of true mahoganies. It can look similar but it doesn't work like Honduras or Philippine mahogany. It doesn't turn my hands black and it tastes much better than real mahogany.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
"None of these three have anything to do with real mahogany..."
That's not quite true. Sapele and utile/sipo are in the genus Entandrophragma, while what's usually called "African mahogany" is in the genus Khaya. Both Entandrophragma and Khaya are in the same family (Meliaceae) as Swietenia, so there is a relationship. There are other genera in the family that have value as timber, but the only one that I know of that is commonly seen in international trade is Cedrela, which is the genus that includes Spanish Cedar.
-Steve
I like the look of it better than Khaya. The veneers can be very pretty although the curly 1/4 sawn can tend to be narrow. It works fairly well and tends to be stable. I haven't stained it but it seems like it would take color real well.This is a hall table I did. Solid legs the rest is veneered with curly 1/4 sawn with ebony and mother of pearl inlay.
Thomas S Stockton
Wow, what a beautiful piece. The wood from a distance almost looks like woven straw the striping is so pronounced. Wait, that didnt sound right...I didnt mean to say it looked like a hay bale! The wood grain is very pronounced. Did you resaw your own veneer? How thick? I have heard the complaints about the workability of the wood but for my projects its not an issue but appearance is. From what little I have exoerienced with it it cuts well and it sure is lovely to look at. im am going to apply some waterlox to a couple pieces today and see what that doesWicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Here is some sapele finished with three coats of Waterlox Original:
View Image
-Steve
given the price I paid for the piece I got to experiment with ($5.75/bf) I assume this stuff is plentifull. It does seem to work well with a sanding station and a router table. Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
You may have gotten a good deal. Does it have the figure in this photo?
These guys are a little spendy but not that far from most of the prices around here. Where are you getting yours?http://www.gilmerwood.com/boards_sapele_unique.htmThanksJohn
Beautiful wood all right but its a lot more than the $5.75 I pay at my local hardwood outlet. I doubt any kid is going to get overly excited that he has tiger striped sapelle in his bathtub boat. Next time I go over Ill bring my business card with me and get the working mans discount. I assume they have one.
I made up a couple boats in sapelle and some in meranti. The sapelle is much better looking and its easier to sand into shape. In the future Ill make the boats from sapelle. I get about 15 boat hulls out of 6 b/f so the difference in price between meranti at $5.17 vs sapelle at $5.75 adds about .04 c per boat but the appearance would suggest much more to the customer.Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
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