Dunbar’s sandpaper sharpening video arrived yesterday. Anyone else using, or has tried this system of sharpening? I ordered the video for my less then consistent sharpening of gouges, and I’m not sure this system would improve my current skills. I was kind of hoping to find a way to save the 400+ dollars of a tormek system to get one tool right. Thoughts and opinions appreciated.
Also got Hoadley’s Understanding Wood book. I’ve just thumbed through it since I’m still into Landis’s Workbench book, but it looks like it will be a good selection also.
Don
Replies
Dunbar's system requires that you do enough sharpening to acquire the muscle memory to consistently hit the required angles. Kind of like the European or Japanese apprenticeship systems, where the new apprentice does nothing but sharpen tools until he can do it right. In my case, I'm not likely to sharpen that many tools if I live to be 96 years old, so I use a sharpening guide. I've used both waterstones and sandpaper, and both work well, except that I've never been able to get sandpaper to adhere to the substrate using just water. I haven't tried glass, but I have used 3/8" stainless steel plate, granite tile, and a granite surface plate.
Edited 10/10/2002 1:13:29 PM ET by Uncle Dunc
I guess just about every person using this forum regularly has also used the sandpaper-on-glass method of sharpening. It works great.
Gouges are another story. I think they're the hardest tool to sharpen without a mechanical device. Also, I am not an experienced turner but my impression is that the sharpening of gouges normally stops on the grinding wheel - they're not sharpened up through the finer grits the way planes and chisels are. This would make sense to me considering the rough the edges experience - 10 seconds of cutting on the lathe must be like 25 minutes of other kinds of use.
If anyone has a great way to sharpen gouges without expensive equipment I'd love to hear about it also.
Mark,
I spoke with the turning teacher at Rockler's a couple of weeks ago about sharpening gouges. Your correct, he almost never goes beyond the 100 grit stone and he tells all his students to use the $59 dollars swivel holder that is advertised with the Tomerk system...altough he used a regular grinder. He said he will sometimes hit the gouge with a little diamond stone on finish pieces...the handheld diamond stones. He then demonstrated the sharpening process for me.
I did make a jig for my grinder and sharpened the gouges on that, but I may invest in the swivel holder.
Terrific. Thanks very much. When he puts a "fingernail" profile on a gauge, I wonder how he hones that edge on a diamond stone without rolling the edge. Do you know?
mark,
He implied that he just hit the gouge a few times with the small pocket size diamond stone..almost like an afterthought...after all he said, it is just the edge that comes in contact with the wood...not like a plane.
Some of this guys bowls..wow...so thin, I asked him if he used feathers.
Don -
Since I had no other kind of bonafide sharpening system in my entire arsenal (other than some old oil stones) when I decided to get into turning, I bought the Tormek machine. Yes, it's a lot of money, but with the proper jigs I sharpen everything in the house; scissors, knives, turning gouges of all shapes, etc. It's plenty accurate and everything but the stone wheel looks like it will last a lifetime.
These wheels, BTW, aren't cheap! Since I live some distance from my source of such things I picked up a spare a while back. $98 at Rockler.
[email protected]
I, too, received Dunbar's video yesterday and was quite impressed with his system and his results. At the end of the video they list two places where you can buy the paper and I called the first one and ordered nearly 70 bucks worth of alum oxide adhesive and wet/dry paper. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can begin using the system.
Bill
Once again, some great sharing here. I have to say though that my gouges are for carving though. I haven't entered the world of lathes yet. I hadn't considered the tormek jig on another grinder. I didn't know it could be done.
Bill, I know one of the places listed was supergrit. I use them often for discs for my PC drywall sander. Never tried them for anything else, but so far the service has been top notch. I recently asked about spindle sleeves but they don't have them in their catalog. Anyway, guess I'll order some paper also and give this system a whirl.
Don
Hey Bill-How's it going? I just wanted to say that I spent a week w/ Mike out in New Hampshire this summer and learned alot about Windsor chairs and him. Although he didn't give a "demonstration" on sandpaper sharpening, I watched him throughout the week touch up his own chisels and gouges and quickly touch up some of my classmates. It's amazing how good this guy is. Not to mention his staff. I learned that he is a real practical guy, which I liked. He mentioned more than once about all the gimmicks they try and do push off on woodworkers. The tormek system being one, and on and on. Think what you could do with all that money if you were to invest some time and learn to sandpaper sharpen? As woodworkers, we're always looking for the easy way out at no matter what cost(the tormek is unbelievably expensive w/all those jigs) instead of wanting to learn a new skill, which sharpening is, a skill. Anyway, have fun learning.John E. Nanasy
Hi--
I have to agree with the "don't spend money on gadgets" crowd. There were, after all, plenty of people with sharp tools before companies started marketing all these jigs. I learned to grind turning tools from Ernie Conover's book, and to grind/hone carving tools out of an old FWW. There's a learning curve, but there's also one with a jig (ask someone who owns the Leigh...). And I don't think it really matters which honing method you use, though I'm sure the microabrasive thing is fine; I switched from oilstones to diamond stones to waterstones, mostly looking for the fastest way to get the best edge. Good luck.John Casteen
http://www.fernhillfurniture.com
John- That's a nice web-site. I like that cherry hall table, you need a photo of the top. For some reason I couldn't download the detail. Probably my computer. John E. Nanasy
John,
I think the tabletop detail just loads slowly. Some of them seem to. Thanks for saying nice things about the site-- always good to have approval from those in the know.John Casteen
http://www.fernhillfurniture.com
Following advice on another thread I also sent off for a video on the use of bench planes and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival along with the sandpaper I ordered. I really want to purchase and use bench planes as opposed to machine planers and jointers. I don't have anything against power tools but I can't get the sight of my grandfather using bench planes out of my mind. He was a master carpenter who primarily built homes but also did all the cabinetry for same in his woodshop at home. I envy your time studying under Dunbar. He does seem like a very practical type from whom one could learn alot.
Bill
You don't have to envy, you can do it too if you want it bad enough like I did. I planned the trip for two years. Now that I'm going through a divorce, I'm able to finally follow my dreams and goals to the fullest potential again. I'm definetly going back to The Windsor Institute. Probably next year for the Continuous Arm. It's my favorite chair. It was really awesome though. I'm already an insomniac. Out there after the first day of class, I couldn't sleep that night awaiting the next morning. The week flys by, let me warn you. Anyway, have fun. John E. Nanasy
Sounds great.. do they have a website? I'd like to find out more.
Bill
http://www.thewindsorinstitute.com Just drop Mike an E-mail and he'll send you information on the classes. Ask to be on the mailing list and every other month you'll get the windsor chronicles. A small zine about windsor chairmaking. I think you'll be on the list if he sends you info anyway.John E. Nanasy
I'm out of the loop on sandpaper sharpening. What's the skinny?
silver
Don,
I use sandpaper for almost all my honing. For gouges, if a chap has a good enough eye and steady hand, they can be done right on the grinder followed by the wet wheel. I think an easier method is to drill a series of holes corresponding to the arc of your gouges in a block of sugar maple or other hard wood, saw the block down the center, and you've now a series of grooves corresponding to your gouges. Just charge the grooves with buffing compound or loose grit, and you're ready to hone.
(Take this with a grain of salt, the idea came from a MTU alumnus....)
Jeff
Jeff,
MTU or not, seems like a fairly simple and straight forward process to give it a try. Thanks.
Don
Don,
I bought an Oar gouge sharpening guide a while ago, I think from woodcraft or something common enough like that. I saw it by chance and picked it up, as it resembled my other honing guides, at least in theory. I haven't used it yet, but it might be the low cost device which may benefit you. I think there is a picture at woodcraft's online catalog. Here is another site which has a picture. http://www.mountainwoodcarvers.com/stones&strops.htm
If anyone else has tried, I'd be interested to hear. If I can get a few minutes myself, I'll lose this embarassment and let you know myself.
Cheers,
Greg
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