Replies

1. 
   Dave45 | Nov 17, 2008 09:22pm | #1

   Unfortunately, paint is about your only option. Sand-throughs are a major PITA when refinishing - or when using veneered plywood in a new piece.

   The only non-paint solution I've ever found is to find a really good refinisher. Some of them can perform miracles - at a price. - lol

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 18, 2008 02:37am | #2

   Here is the way a pro would do it. It might be easier to just paint it.

   Do apply your stain just as though there were no problem. Then, when the stain is dry, "draw" the damaged grain back on the spot where you have exposed the plywood core. This is done by using a selection of soft artist color pencils selected to match your stained oak. Here, briefly, is the process:

   Select a pencil that will match the lightest color that you can see in your table. Begin by "scribbling" this pencil over the damaged area. Follow this by then "smudging" the pencil with your finger tip to blend the color over the area. Then, "seal" this color with a bit of clear aerosol shellac.

   The shellac will dry very quickly; 25-minutes or so. When it is dry lightly sand to smooth the area and reach for the next pencil—one the color of the stain as it appears in the dense latewood of your oak table. Using a bit more care, draw the grain lines in such a way as to connect them across the damaged area. Again, smudge the drawing, this time a bit less than before. You want to still see the lines; you just don't want them to appear "sharp". When you are satisfied with your work, seal this drawing as well.

   Lightly sand again when dry and reach for the last pencil—this one chosen to match the color of the stain in the open grain of the earlywood (the darker areas of stain). Repeat the smudging process and the sealing step. Your "glitch" should now be nearly invisible.

   At any stage in the process, if you don't like what you see, erase and begin again. When the grain is drawn in to your satisfaction and sealed with the last aerosol coat of shellac, proceed with your topcoat. Semi-gloss or satin will be most effective in masking any lingering problems with your artwork.

   I find the "pencil technique" much easier to apply and reverse, if necessary, than using oil or acrylic paints. The process also goes much faster...

   Howie.........
1. 
   RMillard | Nov 18, 2008 09:46pm | #5

   Howard,

   I have never had much luck fixing a sand through. I've tried the artist oils, the graining pens, furniture markers, tinted shellac; you name it, I've tried it. I had never thought of colored pencils, but it is a great idea that I will use. Now it is off to Hobby Lobby. Thanks.

   Rob Millardhttp://www.americanfederlperiod.com

3. 
   DonfromUtah | Nov 18, 2008 03:10am | #3

   Depending on the table, re-veneering is also an option.

1. 
   brad805 | Nov 18, 2008 09:15pm | #4

   that was my thought too.  route out the area of this veneer and get some new stock from Certainly wood or one of the other suppliers.  Would need to be hammer veneered in place, but doable if the table warrants the effort.

   Brad

1. 
   Eireannach | Nov 19, 2008 04:56pm | #6

   The sand-through is an area roughly 2 x 4"  and is spearhead shaped.  Should I rout out just the area of sand-through or is there a better shape that will not be as visible when I inlay the new veneer?

1. 
   Dave45 | Nov 19, 2008 05:55pm | #7

   Trying to patch this may make things worse - unless you can make a patch that blends with the surrounding grain, and hide the lines where the patch ties in.If I were in your shoes, I would try Howies technique with the artists pencils first. If it works, you win. If it doesn't, you can still do a patch.I tried the pencil trick once with fairly poor results, but it was more a lack of practice on my part than a problem with the method.I mentioned this to a refinishing friend yesterday, and he told me that he does it sometimes and can make the repair virtually invisible. It just takes time, patience, and $$$. - lol

2. 
   brad805 | Nov 19, 2008 07:46pm | #8

   A pic would be helpful.  If the piece is not that large, I would tend to route out all the veneer that has been slightly damaged (I assume there is no marquetry).  You would first need to track down the veneer you want to use and so you could measure its thickness.  It should be around 1/42" thick, but I would get it in my hands first.  I assume there is a decorative wood lip around the perimeter.  I would make up a simple jig to keep the router elevated off the table top.  The jig will be helpful if you miss a spot or two as you route off the top.  Its not a complicated setup, four boards around the perimeter (assuming the table is square) clamped to the top somehow, and a spreader spanning between them to set the router on.  The spanning pieces are the important part.  If they are flexible, you will end up with a surface that is out of level.  I would set the router to cut the top down just a hair less than the thickness of the veneer.  This will allow some clean up of the substrate surface and the veneer after it is applied.  You would need to be careful at the edges to not damage the perimeter and the corners will need some chiesel touch-up since they will be rounded by the router.  All of this can obviously done with hand tools too.

   Patching a small area will require quite a bit of knowledge to first cut it out, find a piece that generally matches, feather it in and then re-finish it so it doesnt stand out like a sore thumb.  If you like that idea, it might be best to find a re-finisher.

   You know as I wrote this I thought of another idea.  I have no idea where on the top it is, but you could come up with an interesting inlay (diamond, circle, square or some other marquetry type pattern) that will allow you to cut out the damaged spot and then add a bit of character to the piece.  The inlay will disguise the problem and it could turn out to be a neat story to tell about it in the future.  There is a fellow on the creek site that has a pretty darn good marquetry tutorial complete with some pics.  Real nice fellow and very helpful.

   Just my two bits.

   Brad

1. 
   Eireannach | Nov 19, 2008 07:56pm | #9

   That's a good idea to make the repair a design feature.  I am not confident that I caould match the patch well enough that it wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb, but if I make it a pretty inlay that looks like it is supposed to be there, I think that would work.

2. 
   Dave45 | Nov 20, 2008 08:20am | #10

   The beginning of wisdom, Grasshopper. Often, the sign of a true craftsman is his ability to make a boo-boo look like a design feature. - lol

3. 
   Eireannach | Nov 21, 2008 05:14pm | #11

   Here is a picture of the sand through - it's not very good, but I think it shows what I have to fix pretty well.

   
4. 
   Dave45 | Nov 21, 2008 05:49pm | #12

   Oh yeah, I've been there and done that. - lolIf it were me, and I really had to have a wood finish, I would try the artist pencils first. It will probably take quite a bit of time and practice, but it just might come out fine. A lot will depend on where the repairs are made. The level of "perfection" required depends on how "noticeable" they will be when you're done.If that just doesn't work, you can always try making a patch. Since you're dealing with a mahogany veneer, grain matching will be easier than if you were working with a more figured wood like oak.

4. 
   ring | Nov 21, 2008 07:28pm | #13

   1. Try Howie's colored pencil route. I've done this successfully but only if I pick a day when I feel relaxed and unhurried. The bigger the patch the harder it gets.

   2. If the results of that don't look good enough, here's an alternative way to do the patch: Get a piece of the mahogany veneer that looks like it will match. Cut your patch larger than the bald spot, at least 1" in every direction. Sand off the finish that's surrounding the bald spot if you haven't already done so. Now glue the oversized patch down with yellow glue, and use a caul to press it hard with weights or clamps. I like to use a Formica-covered piece of ply because it wont stick to the squeeze-out. When it's really dry, start sanding the outside edges of the patch until it "feathers" into the existing veneer. This is the delicate and tricky part, but if your piece is a good match for color and texture you will get a much more invisible patch than by routing or cutting a clear transition line.

   This is my proven, secret weapon in the war against sand-thru veneers.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   Eireannach | Nov 21, 2008 07:46pm | #14

   I haven't thought about that technique - I bet that would work!  If I have a large enough patch, the bevel would barely be visible, especially over the thickness of a veneer.  I'll try the pencil technique first, but I like this option.  The sharp transition of the patch was the one part I couldn't figure out how to hide. 

1. 
   chocolatehills | Nov 22, 2008 09:57am | #15

   I have also done a reasonable patch using that technique. If you match up the grain it is possible to make a near invisible patch. The tricky part is sanding it flush. You won't want to sand through the surounding good veneer!

5. 
   KatGV | Sep 23, 2019 04:58pm | #16

   Howard Acheson I ran into this issue yesterday I am refinishing a 1930's buffet to use as our bathroom vanity. I purchased it some years ago and it was previously painted white which I am keeping except for the Mahogany/Walnut top and door/drawer faces I am staining a dark espresso.... I got too heavy handed and sanded thru in one spot but there are also some heavier gouges from the previous owner(s). Anywho I think I can do the pencil trick on most all of the problem areas. My question is at the moment I only have a can of matte clear enamel and I plan on finishing the top with several coats of an oil-base poly since it will get wet. Can I use the enamel to temporarily seal the pencil till I am able to get the ob poly?

6. 
   bilyo | Sep 23, 2019 08:24pm | #17

   If the table has some value to you, I think your best choice would be to re-veneer the whole top. This way you will be assured of having a seamless replacement/repair with less chance for failure. If you are not sure you can do it, hire someone else. If it is a utilitarian table with minimal value, paint it or put a plastic laminate top on it.

7. 
   KatGV | Sep 24, 2019 04:37pm | #18

   bilyo, I have already stained and have used the pencils to a pretty good result all I needed was it not to be a blaring oops every time I stood at the sink. So I just need my last question answered "Can I use the enamel to temporarily seal the pencil till I am able to get the ob poly?"