Hi,
What’s the best router bit for cutting a through slot in MDF? I’m building a sliding router fence out of mdf and I need to cut a slot all the way through the 3/4″ mdf so my bolts can easily slide back and forth.
I was thinking of using sprial up bit but the one I have is too short. I don’t really want to use the drill press and drill bit. I’d rather use a plunge router for accuracy.
Might have to buy the LeeValley Carbide spiral up bit with the 1″ cutting length.
Wanda
Wanda
Replies
Cut one side with the bit you have, then flip the board over and do the other side.
Jim
Any straight carbide bit will do just fine.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Can you not make multiple passes at increasing depth and use your present bit?
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
Wanda,
I'd use the cheapest bit in my arsenal, as MDF is not kind to cutters.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Long bits are very nice for special needs. I for one would take your fence over the the drill press and drill out most of the slot there. Set your router up with it's fence and use a standard bit of whatever you have (as long as it is long enough) to cut the slot depth by turning the fence base over. I assume it is still a flat board and not a made up fence!
However if you REALLY want that longer bit.. Ignore what I and other posters have said and 'go for it'...
You can use your spiral bit but don't bottom it. With a 1/4" shank bit, it is safe to chuck only 3/4" of it's shank.
If you're uncomfortable with that, you may make a first past with the bit bottomed in and a second with the bit pulled out just for the thickness missing.
I also like Jim's option of milling the slot from both sides.
Good luck,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Edited 7/12/2008 9:08 am ET by bricofleur
Hi guys,
Been busy with the dogs so I haven't been online much lately.
I like the idea of milling the slots from both sides. Think I'll go with that. I can use my less expensive Canadian Tire router bit.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Wanda
Keep me updated how it went and if you like the result. Perhaps you should try on scrapwood first to see if you can get both grooves aligned properly. This is sometime a problem when milling from both sides.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi,
I'll let you know how it goes. I'll use my trusty combination square to mark both sides of the fence (front and back). that way I'm sure the slots should line up. as long as I keep my router fence tight agains the workpiece. Everything should line up nicely.
Dont worry I'll be sure to do a test run on a piece of scrap 3/4" mdf first.
Wanda
If you're using your router with a fence, I believe you don't even need your combination square ! As you said, as long as you keep the fence tight against the workpiece, you'll be on the target line automatically.
If you're more comfortable with a router table than a handheld router, you could also try on the router table with a temporary high fence to drop the workpiece slowly on the cutter with stop blocks to make even slots. That counts if a router is already mounted in the router table. I guess it's a manner of comfort !
Do you have a dedicated router for your router table ?
Good luck,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi Serge,
Unfortunately, my router table is not up and running yet. I had to replace the table on the cabinet due to water damage a little while ago. Just haven't had the time to get at it. Finally found the screws necessary to mount the Milwaukee 3 1/4 HP router to the table top. I'll be mounting it directly to the 3/4" thick MDF. It will be nice and secure. I picked up some washers and bolts just to make sure it stays put. I've dedicated the Milwaukee to the router table. So I'll now use my Porter Cable router that I had mounted before for handheld operations.
I had my eye out for a dedicated plunge and was thinking about purchasing the Mikata 3612C. Went in to see if my local tool shop had one I could try out. I was told they're waiting on a shipment. I'm afraid the Makita might be too heavy. The majority of people use them under the table. If weight proves to be an issue I might just buy the Milwaukee kit. Got great reviews from Fine Woodworking. And probably would be a lot easy to use freehand. I think the kit is even cheaper than the Makita. So 2 very good routers for a little less than you'd pay for the Makita.
Hopefully I'll have the table up and running by Sat. I can't relax till I get that router table back up and running. I have no idea how I ever functioned without a router table. It's a fantastic "tool".
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
Water dammage ! This is sad. Sorry about that.
You said you're mounting your Milwaukee directly to the MDF ? Hope you will mill a recess to get more depth from your router bits (±3/8"). I remember your first post in this discussion !! What hole diameter you will be drilling for the cutters ? It is sad you will be stucked with only one diameter, unless this router provides some kind of inserts.
My table top is also 3/4" MDF and I made my own inserts, as shown on the attached photo. I went at my local glass store and ask for a scrap piece of 3/8" Plexiglass, about 24" X 24". I got it for $25. As shown, with that scrap piece I made 6 inserts, including 3 blanks for futur uses. I just wanted to give you this cheap option. The only drawback of this is that I can't use brass bushings. But it's okay with me since I have another small router table on which the bushings can be used (and it is great). You can see it on My Workshop Gallery on my web site, page 1, under Secondary Router Table, and also on Shopmade Jigs - page 3, under Router Table Pattern Fixture.
Hope you will make it for saturday !
Best,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Edited 7/15/2008 8:50 am ET by bricofleur
Hi Serge,
Perhaps I should refer to you as the Jig Meister. I just finished viewing your website. Wow! That's one large router table. mine measures 24x36. I actually learned something new by reading your webpage. How to redimention lumber. That info might come in very handy.
Excuse my ignorance but I have no idea how to make a recess. I've seen a picture of that in Bill Hyton's book on routers. I realize you get the max height from your router bits if you make a recess.
As for the opening (hole) the diameter is 2" same as the old table. For the work I do that covers most bits. If I want to get into using large panel bits I can always build a secondary router table for that. One of those simple tables that attach to a workbench. (like the one pictured in Rogowski's dvd on routers) If I need a zero clearance I can always attach a piece of 1/4 or 1/8" hardboard over the table (same dimensions as the table) with a smaller diameter hole. (that's the cheap way.
That is a fantastic rotuer table you have. I like the adjustable guard you have attached to your fence. The inserts are great. By the way what's the best tool to cut that kind of material. I"ve never cut plastices on my table saw or band saw. Would that prematurely dull a blade????
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
Jig Meister ! This is great for my ego. And I admit, this is a payoff for those hours I spent in my workshop (and the web site). Anyway, thank you for your interest. Please note that there are more to come, every week !!!
I'd say it's easy to make a recess: Patience, accuracy and router is all you need. Oups, also a pattern bit. I suggest 3/4" with bottom mounted bearing (½" shank preferably) - see sample http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=30166&cat=1,46168,46171.
In his book, Bill Hilton probably explains how he does the job. I think I followed the one from Wood or American Woodworker magazine (not sure !). You can also be guided by the following links for inlay technique, which I used for my second router table - http://www.routerworkshop.com/inlay0802.html and http://www.routerworkshop.com/revinlay.html
Plexiglass is as easy as wood to work with. You may read one or two articles to get confidence. No problem on the bandsaw, table saw or router as long as your feed fast enough so the trailing end doesn't melt and stick back together. Again, you should always pratice on scrap pieces first. And it doesn't dull blades or cutters. You can even use steel arsenals (as I did about 20-30 years ago) when carbide was too expensive for hobbyist.
Your idea of a secondary router table is great, but not for large bits and bit router. Note that Rogowski uses a small router, not a beafy one. Your 3.25hp Milwaukee will be "the" tool for large bits. If you're thinking of 2 router tables, you may focus on using the same inserts for both tables. That would be great also (and very practical).
The holes in my inserts are 1-1/4", 2-1/4" and 3-3/4". It takes only minutes to swap one for the other. In the larger router table I use a 3.25hp Hitachi M12V. In the small one, a Porter-Cable 690 VSLR 1-3/4hp is standing by. Talking about routers, I have a 3rd router table, made out of plastic, bought for $20 at Sears, about 20 years ago, in which stays the first router I bought about 30 years ago, a Black & Decker 5 amps 3/4hp that I use as a chamfering station... only.
Since your router table is 24 X 36 and since you plan to use your Milwaukee in it, I hope you will laminate 2 layers of MDF for your table top !
Large holes are not only for panel bits. They're for hand rail bits and 1" roundover bits, just to mention two.
By the way, Norm Abram shown how to rout recesses on his 2 TV shows on router tables.
If you want me to explain how I did my resess for the Plexiglass, I will write the novel to you.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hello again,
I'd love to here more about how you cut your recess for your table.
I have a few ?'s regarding the links you sent me.
1. Can I get buy using a spiral up bit or 1/4" straight bit to rout the recess. I don't have any guides/bushings.
2. Do you use a bimetal hole saw to cut the holes for you inserts?
3. What blade would your recommend for cutting plexiglass /acrylic on the band saw? how many teeth per inch. I think the 3/8" blade I have has 8t per inch.
4. If using the table saw would a combination 50 tooth carbide blade or 30 Tooth rip blade do the job?
5. Is it ok to use regular twist bits to drill holes for the screws in the insert? I have a ordianary task countersink bit so I assume that would be ok for countersinking for the screw heads.
I wasn't planning to laminate 2 layers of MDF.. my god did you laminate (2) 3/4" pieces of mdf. Looks like it from the photo you sent. ;Your table is a DELUXE table.. laminating the top and underside of the mdf top would be the ideal method but I'm being cheap.
In Pat Warner's book he just attaches his router directily to a slap of 5/8" thick MDF (he also has plenty of support beneath the table for that.
I was planning on just drilling 4 holes straight through the table top to mount the router. (the origional base plate removed) Then using a 2" bimetal hole saw to cut the 2" hole through the 3/4" thick table top.
A few coats of Watco oil and I'm done.
Wanda
Wanda,
Okay, I will get back to you with the details/steps on how to make the recess. Since it should be quite a long story, I'll be using an attached MS Word document, hoping it's okay with you. I'm not sure I will be able to do it until Thursday. I still have a social life !!!
Now some answers to your questions:
1- You will make the hole with a jigsaw and the rabbet for the insert with a pattern bit. If you don't have guide bushings, the pattern bit is as must. The recess must be the exact replica of the insert, meaning you have to mill the insert(s) first. By the way, sooner of later you should get a set of guide bushings. Xmas is coming... soon ! Note that on his web site Pat Warner says pattern bits are more accurate than guide bushings. It makes sence, but I think he can afford buying tons of pattern bits. I wouldn't live without my guide bushings. I have the P-C like kit and the whole set from Oak-Oark, which are better in many ways.
2- I used Forstner bits on the drill press for the 2 smaller holes and a hole cutter for the 3-3/4" hole, like this one http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32275&cat=1,180,42316 but mine is cheaper and I paid less at my local hardware store. I suggest you make the insert and cut the holes when ready.
3- I wouldn't use the band saw since the line of cut is less neat than the table saw.
4- On the table saw I would definetely use the 50 tooth carbide blade since the cut with the 30 Rip would be too rough. By the way, clean the edges of the Plexi on the jointer. No problem at all. And it can be sanded smooth. I made my first insert and use it as a pattern with a flush trim bit to make the others using carpet tape and a handheld router.
5- Ordinary twist bits and countersinks are just fine. Don't force the drill and let the bit do its work. Again, try on scrap first to get used to the material.
My router table top is made out of laminated 3/4" thick MDF and 1/2" thick MDF. The white plastic top is thermofused from the company, like Melanine particle boards. The oak banding is for show-off only !
I was going to refer you to Pat Warner about the top. In fact, with appropriate bracing, one layer is enough. I didn't know when I made mine, but I don't regret. The table top of my secondary router table is only one layer of 3/4" MDF. He has several table tops (instead of inserts) with different hole sizes - http://www.patwarner.com/router_table.html
Your idea of using a single layer 3/4" top, drilling 4 holes to hold the router, drilling a 2" hole and using Watco is okay. It's a manner of preference. I like to use the smallest hole as possible according to the bit I'm using, for safety.
As I always say, nothing is permanent. We can change or improve any time.
Best,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hello Serge,
Thank you for answering all those questions for me. MS word document is fine.
There's no rush..... Ilook forward to reading your explanation of how to make the recess.
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
I was able to make my homeworks earlier than expected.
Please find attached the MS Word document on how to make the recess on the router table for a plate insert.
Let me know if you feel comfortable with this method.
Best,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Edited 7/17/2008 7:40 am ET by bricofleur
Edited 7/17/2008 7:41 am ET by bricofleur
I've modified the attachement to correct misspells.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi Serge,
Haven't gotten around to reading your .rtf yet but hopefully by Sat. I will get around to it.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.
Wanda
Hi guys,
Finally completed the new router top and sliding fence on Friday.
Here are some pics of the finished table top and fence connected up to the shop vac.
Wanda
Sorry about that, I forgot to click on ALL.
Wanda
Regarding "all" - that's OK, I often feel more like "none" anyway. ;-)The table looks nice, Wanda. My only concern would be the thickness (stability) of the top, especially if you decide to add a miter track so you can build a "sled" for doing end cuts (tenons, rail/style cuts, etc.). Note that I just finished making a sled, so it's fresh in my mind.
Hello Ralph,
I was planning on building a sled like the one pictured in Bill Hylton's book, Woodworking with the Rotuer. EXCELLENT book!
After what happened to my table top I'd never build a top with a miter slot. I prefer a seamless table top.
Wanda
I have a few router tables.. Some I use all the time, some just a 'bit'.. All except one (cast iron on my TS) are 3/4 inch MDF with a few cleats just glued to the bottom.. No hardware.. SO you know.. all of my routers in the tables are the 1.5 HP? or so. I have never found a need for a larger router. AND I cut some very dense and nasty woods!
Even if I had a 5 HP router I'd never take a deep cut! I have time to waste! My work looses me money.. Never make any money these days. But now just for family and friends.
Most are very old and still flat.. Yes! I do check them with a GOOD straight edge. About all I ever have to do is run a orbit sander across to top and Re-Wax the top! My shop is like the weather outside but with a little less rain.. As in it has a roof!
MDF gets MUCH less respect than it deserves! Sort of like my life!
especially if you decide to add a miter track .. GOOD POINT to bring up!
I have on several occasions... I just glue a 3/4 inch or so thick birch ply or MDF as wide as you can under the table underneath your new 'cut'. Never had a problem doing that!
I'd think most think ( is that proper English?) a router table HAS to be 'Class'!
Yes! If you want it that way! Your call! Not mine..
NOT that you are wrong in ANY way! I like Pretty also!
A FLAT surface and 2x4 fence planned to a true 45 degrees will do. Them old iron clamps will hold that fence just fine!
You can use a sled without a miter track. Use your fence and clamp a board as a 2nd fence against the other edge of the sled. Now you have a trough for the sled to ride in. It avoids all the fuss of squaring the sled to the track and miter bar and maintaining alignment.I know many of you have a great system with a miter slot. I was going to put two into my table as well, but changed my mind once I saw someone work without the added "bling". I am leaning more toward "simpler is always better" these days.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
Hi Wanda,
Good work ! Congrats ! Your tabletop looks very nice. You're on the go for a long time, or until you want something else. We, woodworkers, are very flexible !
I guess you installed some braces under the top as mentionned by Pat Warner. If so, no problem with the thickness of the top. And if you don't want or need a T-Track, there are some workarounds.
Hope you'll get lot of satisfaction with it.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi bricofleur,
I'm pretty sure this router cabinet will provide enough support for the Milwaukee router.
Here's a picture of the router table before the top was screwed in place.
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
I agree with you, there is enough support. Well done. And thanks for the photo. An image worths a 1000 works !
Again, congratulations !
PS: I saved your photos for future reference. Oups ! That gives me an idea for my web site. I'll have a brain storming around this idea.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi bricofleur,
When it comes to router tables. Simplicity wins out. Would be great to have hardwood edging but I can live without it. As long as the table top remains flat that's all that counts.
Be nice to have a smaller/portable/secondary router table around the shop. If only I had a wee bit more space.
Now to build a sliding sled for the router table. A pair of those vice grip c-clamps would sure come in handy. Right now I have 2 c clamps securing the fence. The nice thing about vice grip c-clamps... only takes 1 hand to clamp.
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
I agree with you, the most important spec for a router table is the flat top. The remaining belongs to the needs and/or moods of the woodworker.
As shown on the attached photo, my secondary router table top is made out of ¾" MDF, which I bought with a layer of Melamine on one side (in the scrap bin). There's no hardwood edge banding. And I love it. The down side is the fact that it takes floor space, reason why I've mounted it on a storage cabinet.
As you already mentionned, a secondary router table could be as simple as the one used by Gary Rogowski; a flat piece of ¾" Melamine C-clamped to the workbench and a straight stick as a fence. And it's easy to store. I guess you could use your sliding fence on it too. He seems to like it !
The Vise-Grip clamps I use are great, as you said, because they can be clamped with one hand. The other thing is that C-clamps are noisy, caused by the rattling sliding T-handle. On my secondary router table I use these form Oak-Park http://ca.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=clmp--&product=CC100. No noise and the handles are really smooth. More is coming on this on my web site.
Finally, I don't use any sled on my router tables (at least, not yet). I use these backer blocks (attached photos/drawings from FWW.com). Pat Warner made some simple and safe sleds. They can also be seen on this web site and in his videos/DVDs.
Good luck,
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
As mentionned in my prior post, I found the link for Pat Warner's sleds video:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/subscription/Workshop/WorkshopArticle.aspx?id=5204
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Wanda ... still not sure about your 'sliding fence thing'
A router table does not ordinally need one except for small parts.
A hunk of 1/4 inch ply with a clamp or two to hold the part!
Sort of lost at what you need?
Hi WillGeorge,
I thought I might build one so I could cut dadoes, dovetails and box joints.
I should definitely make a backing block. That would be great for cross cuts on small pieces.. especially for cabinets (cope and stile).
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
I though you might be interested by this shopmade sled idea I saw on an ad for Danny Proulx's book, 50 Jigs & Fixtures.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi Bricofleur,
I have learned so much from reading Danny Proulx's books. I have 2 or 3 of them but unfortunately I don't have his book on jigs and fixtures in my collection.
If you love designing and building jigs you might be interested in Bill Hyltons book, The Ulitmate Guide to the Router table. He has a jig for just about every situation you'll ever encounter when using a router. When I get around to it I'm going to make his circle cutting jig. There is an excellent chapter on Template routing in that book.
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
Since I do love designing and building jigs, I do have Bill Hylton's book, The Ulitmate Guide to the Router table. I also have the Frame and Panel Magic, and Power Tool Joinery from him. They also include jigs (of coarse !).
Another great book on router jigs is from Carol Reed, Router Joinery Workshop. She is quite imaginative.
And I think I have all the collection from Danny Proulx. As you mentionned, I also leaned a lot form this guy (by the way, did you noticed from seeing pictures of him that he always has his hands tight closed ?). He's the one who convinced me to try working with Melamine. Once convinced, I made 8 floor cabinets in my workshop and most of their drawers are also made from Melamine. He was a good and prolific teacher.
Thanks for the info.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
HI Wanda Back at ya!
Some short videos as you enter Finewoodworking.. VERY SHORT! However.. alot of good ideas.
Now somebody invent a router table that cuts like a table saw! I'd get one!
OK so at a woodworkers price range and does not use 100,000 Psi water with diamond dust!
Hi Wanda,
As an answer to one of your questions, here are the results of this new 3/8" thick Plexiglass router base plate I made this afternoon. The edges have been cut on the table saw and then jointed smooth on the router table with a jointer fence.
You can see the kind of shavings you will encounter. On the picture showing the hole from the Fostner bit, note the thin round cutout left (front) since I drilled part way from one side and the rest from the other side to prevent blowout and chiping. For sure you want to use a gentle touch when drill this stuff.
Hope it will help you picture the process.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi again Bricofleur,
It's late here so I'll make this short.
Thanks for the wonderful pics. Like you said a picture is worth a 1000 words.
What's the largest Forstner bit you've ever used to cut those center holes in your router plates? Have you ever used hole saws to cut through plexiglass? Using the router as jointer is a nifty trick. beats having to sand the edge.
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
Hope you had a good night sleep even if it was late when you turned off your PC (here I mean Personal Computer not Porter Cable - LOL).
Since the larger Forster bit I own is 2-1/8", this is the largest hole I made in Plexiglass. The one I used for the router base plate I shown you yesterday was 1-3/8", which is the same diameter as the original router base. For drilling larger holes I use a hole cutting jig attachment on my drill press similar as this one http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32275&cat=1,180,42316 It works as fine since I use a slow speed and I drill steady to prevent the Plexiglass from overheating and melt back. It's just a manner of a little practice (as mentionned on my web site on the Welcome page - Practice makes perfect !)
I never used a hole saw and I won't. It's a pain in the neck drilling in wood, I'm sure it would be a mess in Plexiglass. No I won't even try. Just thinking about it makes me sick !
And since using a router as a jointer is nifty, I made a dedicated router table fence for jointing. It's always ready. For thick stock I refer to my usual split fence. And for larger or wider stock, I have a dedicated jig that I use with a handheld router, and I will add it on my web site sooner or later. I'm quite proude of this jig since it's usefull for several applications.
Hope these info you will give enough confidence to try on your own.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
hello bricofleur,
Your book collection is similar to mine. I have all those books except for one. Carol Reeds book is great. She's very inventive. Her router table would be fun to build.
Forstner bits work well but when you have to cut a hole in the center of a large sheet of MDF you have to find another alternative other than the drill press. The Drill press is perfect for drilling small holes in insert plates. keeps the bit perfectly perpendicular. That would be the ideal set up. I too am not fond of using saw hole cutters. Especially when there are safer ways to cut holes. That's why I prefer Bill Hyltons circle cutting jig. (mind you I have yet to build a circle cutting jig) You can make just about any size diameter hole using just a router and a straight bit/ spriral bit.
Now that I have my router table all set up it is time to start that bookcase I have been procrastinating about. It will give me an excuse to purchase 2 more router bits for my collection.
Wanda
Übung macht den Meister!
Wanda,
For larger holes, as you mentionned in the middle of a MDF panel, I use a plunge router, a guide bushing and a carbide spiral bit (I like to use a large 1/2" diameter bit in those situations) and a template (see attached photo).
As a circle cutter, I also use the same template, the one shown in the middle of the first row, where the 1" hole (top right) holds the 1" guide bushing (and the router of coarse) while the pivot is a 1/4" bolt or pin inserted in one of the 1/4" holes (bottom left). I drill the 1/4" hole where I need it on the template according to the diameter expected from the 1" hole. I don't need anything else. And better, there is nothing to bolt to the router base (this is quicker - and I leaned this technique from the Rosendahls at the Router Workshop). As I will use this template for hundreds hole diameters, this jig (or template) will have worth the dollar I paid for.
If you don't spend your money on router bits, you will spend it on something else (good or so so). This is a matter of choise, or a matter of decision. As Dr Deepak Chopra said: "We are choice makers".
And since I'm French speaking, I have no idea what you meant by Übung macht den Meister!
Hope you will be inspired. And I'm glad you have Carol Reed's book. I'm very excited every time I browse the pages.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Re: Übung macht den Meister!
Okay Wanda, I got it. It's German.
I'm no Meister in languages but since I'm a woodworker, I must find a (or the) solution to about anything.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi,
I need to spend an afternoon in the tool room just building jigs. Can never have too many of those. Now to get myself a set of guide bushings and away I go.
So how many routers do you have in your collection and what's your favourite plunge router. If you could buy just 1 router which one would it be.. fixed or plunge? I've only used a PC 690 plunge base router. The fixed router is great but the base that comes with that kit is far from perfect. I've only used it a few times. It's a bit tricky getting that motor into the plunge base.
Übung macht den Meister.. sorry I should have translated that for you. Practice makes perfect!
Thanks so much for all the tips and photos Serge. How often do you update your website?
Hi Wanda,
An afternoon just building jigs ? To me, it's not enough ! Just kidding. However, jigs and tools is what I like the most to build (and design). To use your words, I procrastinate about building furnitures, but not jigs and tools.
Thank you for the translation but it's too late, I found it this afternoon. In my last 14 years I worked as a central computer system analyst. So analysis is one of my main.
If I would buy only one router, I would definitively buy a plunge router. It can do everything a fixed base router does plus... plunging. And if I would really buy only one router, it would be a 3.25 hp plunge router. My own secret to be happy in life is: minimize expectations, minimize needs, minimize jugements and minimize restrictions. So no router is perfect. Eveyone will have it's own opinion on the choice.
A good thing is to have many routers to accomplish different tasks. Some people buys vases at $100, paintings at $200, mantle clocks at $300 and big TVs at $500 or more, and they only watch them. Why not buying many routers and use them. As I told you before, if I don't spend my money there, I will spend it else where for good or... so so.
I agree with you about the fact the PC 690 motor is a pain in the neck to get into the plunge base (align pins, place the tab, set the allen screw and swing the allen wrench). This is one good reason to have a full fixed base router in a router table and a full plunge router for handheld routing. I really like my fixed base PC 690 LRVS in my secondary router table and my PC 693 plunge for handheld routing. My main router table is outfitted with a Hitachi M12V 3.25hp (plunge), reason why I made an insert plate with a 3-1/2" hole for larger bits.
One day I wanted to buy the PC accessory micro router fence. The tag price was $78. I believed it was too expensive so I didn't buy it. Later, while at Home Depot I saw a promotion from PC, a fixed base 690 router with a free micro fence at $195. According to me, the router was only $117 if the micro fence is $78. This was a good reason to get a micro fence and another PC 690. Same thing for this liquidation sale at Canadian Tire where the PC 693PK was at $249 ( this is the 690 combo).
So I won't tell how many router I have, but be sure I don't have vases, paintings, mantle clocks and big TVs. Every router I have has it's own story.
Finally, you are very welcome for the photos and tips. As I said many times to my friends, I don't want to die with my knowledge. I must pass it on. What was the name of that movie ???
And my website is updated every Sunday around 6PM. I didn't miss any since I began on January 8th, 2008.
Best,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Edited 8/5/2008 10:18 am ET by bricofleur
Wanda,
If you plan to build router base plates and/or router table insert plates, don't forget to order this kit (or one similar) unless your are close to a good hardware store.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&cat=1,43000,51208&p=41782
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi Bricofleur,
I learned so much from just building that router fence and mounting that Milwaukee router. I know all about hard to find hardware!! Milwaukee should include a few long 2" flat head machine screws with their 3 1/4HP routers. Considering most people mount them in router tables.
I had to make several phone calls to locate a store that sold the proper hardware. Luckily for me I found a store that sells all kinds of fasteners... Fastners Plus. Sure saved me a lot of money. Otherwise I would have ordered from LeeValley. If I can't find an item here I usually end up ordering from lee Valley. I ordered their Punches/ transfer punches.. Not bad for $14.95 ended up paying $23.95 including taxes/ s/h. But it was worth every cent. Came in very handy. I came across those while reading Bill Hylton's book on routers. They were also pictured in Carol reeds book. Every tool shop should have a set.
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
I also ordered my punch/transfer set from Lee Valley few years ago. The first time I heard about this set was in a short video from John White. I used it for drilling the router base plate I shown you couple days ago. I often use them as gauges when setting up tools.
To reduce the S&H, I order 4-5 times a year form LV. Every now and then I accumulate what I need in the wish list and when the total is more then $200 I place the order. This way the maximum $12.95 S&H is always less than 6% (cheaper than the provincial 7.5% sale tax I save). I like having in advance the hardware I need or will need. You probably saw my spinning hardware tower on my website. I wouldn't try to lift it. My next order should be place this week. I think it will include a set of beginner's carving set (not really sure yet).
In the workshop, I believe it's a non stop learning process about everything. Even German ! Do you have German origin or you're also in a learning process ? LoL By the way, I've included this translation on the Welcome page of my website for the next update.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi Serge,
:) Hey, I'm always in the learning process...
Have a ? for you regarding 3 1/4hp routers. I read somewhere yesterday that the weight adds to the stability and durability of those hefty beasts. The lower handles = lower center of gravity. One of the reviewers favoured the 3 1/4 Hp router for cutting cirlces. Said it did a much better job. (added weight meant the router was less likely to ride up).
I was reading up on the DW 625 3 1/4HP plunger router. which I have my eye on. Although it's a powerful router it is also bulky and expensive to repair. (so says one online reviewer) Also mentioned that the collet nut and armature threads were easy to cross thread and expensive to fix. So many mixed reviews.
For a novice like myself would a 3hp router be more dangerous than a 2 1/4hp router?
I must look up some stats on that smaller PC plunger router you mentined. 693 kit
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
:) Hey, I'm always in the learning process... too !!! (and still getting very excited)
I agree with the statement that the more heavy are 3 1/4 HP routers, the more stable they are and less are the chance they vibrate, making smoother cuts (I wouldn't say much smoother, it's very subtil).
In fact, the lower the handles, the better handling and steering. I believe this is one reason why the P-C 690 fixed base is the standard of the industry. You don't have the same feeling with the 693 plunger. This is one reason why I like the Hitachi M12V. It is not the best rated, but this machine is very comfortable to work with (I have 3).
I also agree with the affirmation that 3 1/4 Hp router is favoured for circle cutting because the cutter, usualy a 1/2", is cutting though it's full width. You can do the same time with a smaller router but only by making several shallow passes, which is also acceptable.
In my humble opinion, a router will ride up only if you let it ride up. I remember when I was a kid my oncle let my drive his car (he was too drunk) and told me: "You are the master with the steering wheel in your hands. The car will go anywhere go want it to go". I never forgot this wisdom.
For a woodworker like you, as for any woodworker (including me), all routers are dangerous. You must practice to feel the machine and get comfortable with. By the way, according to me, when you buy a tool, buy a tool that you like. Even if it's for the color, the handles, the switch, etc. Buy something you are comfortable with. I know there are tool reviews down there and they are very usefull. Since most manufacturers build tools quite similar, the quality is also similar for the price you pay. Personnaly, I would never buy a Mastercraft because the quality is not "respectable" as I won't buy any Craftsman anymore. This is a personnal choice (bases on my own experience).
I always told my daughters "When you have a dilema, chat with as many people as you can. This way you will get tons of ideas you wouldn't have think of, and then, only then, make your own choice."
I really like my 693 kits, as I also like the first B&D router I bought 30 years ago, even if it's only a 1/4" and 5 amps or 3/4 HP.
Wanda, you're the boss ! And if you make a mistake, it's okay. Once I make the mistake of buying a router with a rocking switch. I'm lucky not having lost my fingers. Now this router is dedicated in a router table which has a separate switch. There are no mistakes, there are only something to learn, which brings us at the first lines of your post.
Hope these lines will help you.
PS: Today I received a book I was looking for for a long time since it's no longer printed. See this link http://www.langevinforest.com/fr/catalog/details.asp?id=000000000008CO5&cat=00000000000C2U6&search=true I think I was lucky since it's no longer available at this store also. I was lucky enough to get it at the liquidation price for $9.99. Do you guess what I will be reading tonight ? The bad side is that I got a book that was on the display shelf since there are some signs of "manipulation". But it's okay with me since the knowledge it contains is not affected.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi Wanda,
As I told you, I've started reading my new book. It's full of jigs and how to. The kind of book I like, reason why I've been searching for it for a long time.
When I saw the paragraph on the Dewalt 625, which you were looking at, I thought you might be interested to know his opinion.
"The Dewalt 625 is often considered the industry standard in plunge routers. Its excellent collet system, powerful soft-start motor and glass-smooth plunging action are hallmarks of good design and engineering...
...The Dewalt 625 is generally considered the industry leader in the macho class 3 HP area. It's one of the oldest.
...So, if you want to rout, make and use jigs and fixtures, you should consider a complement of three routers: one medium-weight fixed-base router; the Porter-Cable 7518 (7519) for full-range fixed-base or table routing; and an intermediate weight (9 to 11 pounds) plunge router for multistage work...
...The Porter-Cable 690 and Porter-Cable 42193 offset subbase are the ideal combination for edge and template single-depth cuttings...
...The Porter-Cable 7518 is essentially in a class by itself. It's a heavy tool, but that weight can absorb a cutter error or kickback without much ado. While smaller routers can steer off erratically in the event of a cutter accident, the 7518 is a steam-roller. This router is my first choice for the router table and all heavy-duty sustained hand cuts. The 7518 motor barrel is the longest in the industry. If you can't "reach it" with this tool, you won't reach it...
...There are a lot of lightweight, such as the Bosch 1613 and the Dewalt 621. The Porter-Cable 693 hybrid is also a good compromise..."
So, I've included what I remembered you were looking at.
The book have been printed in 1999.
Hope this will help you.
Best,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Hi,
You were very fortunate to pick that book up for the price you did. I checked Amazon.ca and Chapters.ca Chapters was selling it for $37.99 on their website. But the book is out of print. You can only buy it 2nd hand. Even buying it 2nd hand isn' cheap. ($22.00)
Probably won't see much of you online for the next little while now that you have your Jig book. No doubt You will be hibernating in your shop. :) So how many of the jigs have you built so far. LOL
While looking up that book on jigs I came across 2 other books of interest. Router methods of work and workshop methods of work (part of a 4 book series) written by Jim Richey. If you don't have the one on router methods of work you might want to add that to your collection. I have his book on table saw methods of work and it is full of useful info. I think I'll order the one on router methods of work. Not bad for $10.00 basically the cost of a woodworking mag. As you have probably figured out by now I am a woodworking magazine and book junkie!
Thanks for the info on the Dewalt router. I have the PC 690 kit (fixed base, plunge base) I LOVE the 690.. great router.Unfortunately, it doesn't have variable speed but so what. The balance is perfect. Works like a charm for edging. Very easy to handle. Only negative thing I can say about it.. the switch is up top and it jerks when you turn it on. But you can easily work around those problems. The only other router I own is the PC LRVS like the one you have.
I decided to mount a Milwaukee 3 1/4 power router in my router table for a couple of reasons... #1. I purchased the PC 7518 only to find out it didn't fit beneath my router table because of the handles. (you can't remove them). The only other powerful fixed based router that is easily mounted in a router table is the Milwaukee 3 1/4 router. fortunately for me it came with handles that could be removed. It was a perfect fit for under my router table. #2. yes, the PC7518 has the longest reach and it is very easy to set the depth of cut using that router but it doesn't have a linear depth adjustment ... The Milwaukee does. I found out the importance of that when I made tenon and grooves for my cupboards. I was staging the cut. and ended up with a "stepped cut". Had no idea why this was happening and ended up cutting the tenons on the table saw. Only to find out later that the position of the bit changes when you adjust the motor housing on the PC 7518. (hence the "stepped cut")
I really like the "rough" adjustment and fine micro adjustment on the Milwaukee 3 1/4Hp router. I prefer using 2 wrenches to change bits. No problem chaning bits above the table with the Milwaukee. The wrenches that come with the Milwaukee are better than the ones that come with the PC routers.
So I am torn now between the Dewalt 625 and the new Milwaukee 2 1/4 Plunge (kit). $299 I could have a plunge and a fixed.. or I could go and buy the dedicated DW 625 plunge. Be different I guess If I didn't all ready own a Milwaukee router. I bet their new router is just as durable. It's not going to be an wasy decision.. at least not for me. Will it be a yellow or red tool.. hmmm i will be adding to my portable woodworking tool collection.
Time to get back building furniture. Less time procrastinating.
Enjoy your Jig making book!
Wanda
Hello Wanda,
I agree with the fact that I was very fortunate to get this book at this price. I guess it was on the display shelves for so long, reason why they sold it at this liquidation price. I was really lucky to be the one who could get it. The main thing in that situation is the fact that I had the link to that book with my bookmarks for at least a month. Before paying $6 for S&H I was looking for an opportunity to drive to the store to get it (any other stuff). Finnally I decided to order it through the Internet and the rest from Lee Valley. Take a look at the back of my book to see the price tag (attached). It's exactly what you found out in your researches, $37.95.
Look what I found on the Internet about this book clic. You may want to take a peak inside the book clic.
I didn't buy the book to build the jigs (unless needed) but to know how he builds his jigs, what material he uses and get more ideas to be a better jig builder. As you have probably figured out by now I am also a woodworking magazine, book and jig junkie! LoL. Whenever I see a book about jigs, I buy it (it must be a good deal though). About magazines ?: When I find a good idea (I mean Tips or Jigs) in a magazine, I buy it. When a magazine comes up frequently with good ideas (I mean Tips or Jogs) so I don't want to miss any, I subscribe.
Since my age is a third more than yours, I came to the conclusion that my book collection may be a third more than yours. LoL. In fact, I do have the 4 books collection your mentioned edited by Jim Richey. The fourth you didn't mentionned is about Finishing. He's in charge of the Method of Work column of FWW magazine and he rassembled 25 years of what readers sent to the editors. For a jigs junkie like me, these books are a treasure of ideas. I got the collection few years ago from Lee Valley ($45 or $50 - Oups, not on sale this time !).
For my P-C 690 fixed bases I'm about to build an offset base out of 3/8" thick Plexiglass, reason why I bought this stuff. I will first make a master template out of 1/2" MDF and then make 1 or 2 offset base. The master template will be available for ever if I want/need more. As you said, the balance is perfect with this tool. I believe with the offset base the jerk motion will be more controlable. Since I have spare fixed bases from my 693 kits, I'm going to build my 5th router table, which will be horizontal, using the idea of Ernie Conover form an old FWW magazine - clic.
I see you learned the hard way that we must buy tools or hardware before building. The P-C 7518 would have been the best option but I'm sure your Milwaukee will do the job as well (as my Hitachi does).
Reading your lines brought me to the idea of switching my P-C 690 VSLR from the router table to a fixed base to use freehand since it's a solf start, which will eliminate the jerk, and leave the motor for my 690 RL in the router table, where the jerk will be absorbed by the router table itself. Thanks !
I also prefer using two wrenches. The torque is at its best when squeezing both together in the pam of one hand. If all routers would have the racheting system like the Festool, it would be something else ! But on the router table I would also use 2 wrenches.
Now about your hard to make decision: Yellow or Red. If I were in the same situation (I wrote "if" because I'm obviously not), I would go for both. The first reason is the fact you like both (torn you mentionned). The second is they will perform differently on diffferent situations. The third is you would get 3 tools, since the fixed base could be the second router table your were deaming of. Fourth, you would be adding to your collection ! Pat Warner said in one of his videos that he own 20 ($300 times 20 = $6000). He must be a happy man !!! LoL
He brought me to buying his jigs book because I really like the kind of jigs he was making and using in his books, magazine articles and videos/DVDs. I felt I had to go further to know about them.
Now it's my turn to say: Stop procratinating. Got a website to update today.
Best,
Serge (not hibernating... yet)- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
All my inserts are made of MDF.
Made like what you posted from the Router Workshop. Better ones are nice if you have the time and love cutting clear polycarbonate plastics. I understand it is bad for humans that cut it all the time? Just something I read someplace. (bisphenol ?)
Actually most of my work on the table is with bits 3/4 inch and under. I never change the insert from the 3/4 inch size except when I use larger bits.
Safety issue? Could be, but I have never had a problem. But then again I never have anything small enough to fall or hang up in the space between the bit and the insert. ALL small work OR when using large bits, I clamp to a polycarbonate plate (1/4 inch or so thick) with those (I call) Toggle Clamps?.. Adjustable pressure screw and a lever to engage the clamp.
I use my router tables all the time.. I have for years.. AND STILL RESPECT those bits!
In fact I feel a router table is WAY safer that using a Table Saw. The only 'near' accident I ever had using a router was when it was hand held!
I believe Plexiglass is as hazardous as MDF for health (as all man made material I believe) . As you mentionned, as long it's for short periods, that's okay.
For the hole opening, I noticed that the wider is the opening, the more chance stock gets caught at the rim (not really falling in), reason why I like to minimize the opening. I frequently use bits from 1/2" to 2", reason why most of the time the 2-1/4" insert is in the router table. When I used my secondary router table, I use the "brass insert" sold by Oak-Park which fits nicely in their baseplate I bought few years ago. The hole is 1-1/2", reason why I reach for this router table when dealing with smaller diameter bits.
It's a manner o personal feelings. Comfort or discomfort !
I agree with you, spinning router bits need respect. I had an accident once. When I pluged in my handheld router, which was upside down on the workbench after I changed the bit, I didn't know but the switch was on. It's that kind of rocking switch which is hard to tell if it's on or off (compared to toggle switches). When I heard the router I instantly unpluged it and automatically reached to catch the router before it gets over the workbench. Doing so I cut the tip of my middle finger on the sharp bit. Not badly, just enough to scare me to death. Chances are the bit was not spinning anymore. Since then, this router equiped with the rocking switch is dedicated to my secondary router table, which has a remote switch.
As you said, a router table is WAY safer.
And thank you for your comments about my router table and inserts. They were worth making them.
Best,
Serge- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
They were worth making them.
I 'think' I said that..
But at my age I forgot what I had for breakfast OR even if I had any!
Nice table and inserts.
I don't really want to use the drill press and drill bit. I'd rather use a plunge router for accuracy. ??
I'll leave it at that!
sprial bits are wonderful... HOWEVER a bit expensive! .. Especially the solid carbide ones! Wonderful tool just the same!
Hello,
yes, those spiral up bits really do a nice job. I used my sprial up bit today to make the slots for my sliding router table fence. Worked like a charm.
You can also use forstner bits on the drill press but then you have to clean up the edges with a chisel. Yes, the drill press is accurate but requires a little more time. The plunge router is the easiest way to get the job done.
Wanda
You can also use forstner bits on the drill press but then you have to clean up the edges with a chisel??
Sorry I ment.. do the dirty work with a smaller driil or forstner bit and THEN clean it up with you GOOD router stuff!
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