Rikon Bandsaw Model 10-345: Big Problems
We all spend a lot of time figuring out what to buy. This post is for those considering a bandsaw.
I have never been more disappointed in a tool purchase than with my Rikon bandsaw. Nor can I imagine a more complete failure of a piece of equipment and in a company. It’s a sorted story and it ended in completely junking the entire saw. Yes, a brand new saw, less than a year old, is now several hundred pounds of scrap. I hope this cautionary tale keeps you from making the same mistake. If you’re thinking about a Rikon bandsaw scratch it off the list now.
First, I am a weekend woodworker. I don’t spend hours on my equipment, but I do spend a significant amount of time figuring out what to buy. I’ve been around tools and equipment most of my 50-years and I’m no slouch at using and tuning them.
I bought the saw at Woodcraft and brought it home and set it up. The most immediate problem was blade wobble; the blade jumped significantly and suddenly. To rule out a problem with the existing blade, I went and bought a replacement blade and also a large resaw blade. The replacement blade made no difference and the resaw blade had severe jump – in excess of 1/4″ – perhaps as much as 3/8″. I called Rikon and Rod, the Vice-President, had me attempt to adjust the bottom wheel. I played with this fussy adjustment for quite some time to no avail. I called again and Rod said he would send a new bottom wheel. The new wheel arrived and it was the wrong wheel and didn’t fit. I packaged the wheel up. Rod sent another wheel. This wheel fit and I put it on, but the saw was no better. I called Rikon again. Rod sent another wheel. The third wheel performed no better. I called Rikon again. At this point it didn’t seem like much more could be done and Rod said he would send a new saw out. It may sound like an easy fix; however, it wasn’t. After a while the new saw arrived and after spending quite some time getting the old saw off my mobile base I unpacked the new saw, wrestled it off the crate and back into the mobile base. Reusing the palate, crate and packing material, I re-crated and re-packaged the old saw, wrestled it out of the shop and set it outside for shipping. This took most of an entire weekend – it’s not easy to lift and lower 400 pound machines many times over. After what turned out to be a many month process I was looking forward to a good, working saw. I later found out that the first saw’s upper wheel was not straight; something I had mentioned to Rikon and found in my own extensive troubleshooting. My gauges told me the top wheel was out of round.
The new saw was better, but far from perfect. But, having gone through so much hassle with the old saw I decided I might live with the new one. However, large resaw blades still hammered the rear bearing. I mostly used very small blades in the saw and it performed ok. I rarely had a large blade in the saw and only resawed a couple of maple boards. The saw was plenty powerful for that task, but the blade tracking or wobble was an intractable problem.
Summer came and I spent little time in the shop. However, cool weather came back around and migrated back to my favorite cool weather activity; my shop. My son was using the saw with a 1/4″ blade to cut 1/4″ plywood for a sword he was keen on making for Halloween. I was with him and he was on the saw for a while. Upon stopping the saw it would not restart.
I checked everything and couldn’t find a problem. I got the meter out and checked the breaker – nothing. I checked the outlet – everything was correct. I took the switch out and checked both poles. Again, everything appeared to be fine. I took the motor cover off and checked the motor. Both poles had continuity from the motor leads to the plug and both sides were getting correct voltage on a 20 amp breaker. The motor had failed! I actually thought it was the capacitor, but my electrical knowledge doesn’t extend to motors. In case I missed anything I moved the saw over to the tablesaw outlet – nothing. I was incredulous and pretty pissed-off. I have spent more time troubleshooting the saw than using the saw and it had eaten into my limited shop time and now I had no saw at all. I had spent months, literally, screwing around with the bandsaw from hell and now something new.
I wrote Rikon – Rod – an email. I waited and didn’t hear anything. Finally, I called and talked to someone else. I then got an email back from Rod blaming me for the wheel problem and the motor problem. I quote, “We attributed the upper wheel issue (on the first saw) to be caused by excessive blade tension and/or leaving blade tension on for extended periods of time. Your current wheel issue coupled with the motor capacitor failure all but confirms excessive blade tension.” The problem with this so called theory is that I received BOTH saws with the wobble problem. I barely even used the first saw and hadn’t spend much time on the second. I couldn’t have and didn’t create the problems on the first saw and certainly not the wobble on the second saw. The second issue is that I couldn’t really put a large blade on the second saw because of the wobble, so I most often used a small blade which uses little tension. The over tension idea is pretty over-baked. Especially, for as little use as the bandsaw experienced.
I replied to Rod’s email writing this all down and heard nothing back. I sent another email a week or so later and Rod wrote back telling me they’d repair the saw if I shipped it back to them! I couldn’t believe it. The motor bolts on with three bolts and Rikon wants me to ship it back! Not only do they want me to ship the saw a second time, but now pay the shipping, build a palate and shipping box and move the saw all over again. I’m reliving the first nightmare.
Rikon refused to send a new motor, refused just sending the saw back, and generally refused to be any kind of a partner with this problem. Ship it back or nothing. It is astoundingly difficult for me to lift and move this saw. Let alone box it and ship it.
At this point I just want to enjoy winter in the shop and never see any green colored equipment ever again. Does anyone need any scrap steel? I’m done.
Do you really think this saw is a “best value” on Fine Woodworking or Woodworking magazine? Or, for that matter, anywhere? It may appear a good value, but 400 pounds of scrap steel in a small shop is significantly valueless.Don’t fall for the best value tests.
Replies
I'm having the same or similar issue with my Craftsman made by Rikon bandsaw. My bandsaw won't run. The motor capacitor fried on my 14" Craftsman bandsaw (Model #22401) and I'm not sure where to find one. Yes, I've tried Sears. They only sell the capacitor as part of the motor assembly. It would cost me about $200 to replace a $5 part. The Sears Service Center wants another $200 to replace the motor. When my wife heard it would be $400 to fix the saw she said we'll just buy a new one. Then I'd be in your situation, trying to scrap my bandsaw.
Since the bandsaw will be needed soon I will have to get it repaired, but I have no idea where to find the right capacitor and Sears Service Center won't help. Like you I bought my bandsaw based partly on positive reviews in woodworking magazines. These reviews never consider availability of parts or machine service availability/cost.
Yes, I realize that I should have bought a Grizzly, Powermatic, Jet or some other brand. Perhaps they offer the capacitor separate from the motor. This problem has given me a good idea. Whenever I'm considering a large machine purchase I'll check the parts list to see if this kind of problem can happen. I certainly won't be buying a Craftsman or Rikon.
Bummer Bummer
One for each of you.
I have no suggestions for the saw jump/wiggle problems, but Basset, you could take the capacitor to an electrical supply house along with the specs from your motor. They should be able to replace it at minimal cost.
Frosty
Rikon has shipped me a new capacitor. I should replace the existing one this week. Does anyone know the possible reasons a capactor can fail?
So where is Woodcraft through all of this? I looked on their site and they have 7 reviews averaging 4 out of 5 for this saw. Surely they should have stepped in and realized you had a bad product?
Have you even contacted them for support?
Don
Woodcraft stepped out early. I bought the saw when they moved and it was the floor model. The manufacturer's warranty was in place from the date of purchase, but Woodcraft would not provide their warranty on top.
Rikon Warranty
Well the Rikon warranty is clearly an unconditional 2 year against defects etc., unless there is additional fine print in the warranty document that accompanied the machine.
I don't know about consumer protection in your area but I would be reluctant to let either Rikon or Woodcraft off the hook. Check your legislation and see what is there. Woodcraft may have some obligation especially if they knowingly sold you a bad saw without disclosing any issues - AS IS WHERE IS kind of sale.
Also, you may have some additional extended warranty if you purchased by credit card.
With the blade wobble, I was tearing m hair out last year over some 3/4" bands I purchased for my 14" BS. They actually reciprocated. I turned that saw inside out and it turned out to be the band was not straight when welded. I had a band maker break the weld and redo it. Now they are fine. like your wheels are slightly oblong.
Regards,
Don
Blades man its the blades
Having re read your post, I see that you had no issues with the small blades, but when you changed to the re saw blade, you did have problems. You blade is moving from back to front - reciprocating. On both saws, and the same resaw blade. I would be surprised if an out of round wheel would cause this action. Vibration yes, but the blade would track vertically and would not "hammer" the rear bearing.
As I noted earlier, I had this problem, not with one blade, but 3 brand new blades from the same manufacturer. These were the only 3/4" blades I had at the time, so when I went back to 1/2" and 5/8", I had no problem. I thought the saw incapable of running 3/4" blades, when in fact the actual problem was in the poor welds on all 3 - 3/4" blades.
I believe Rikon have stepped up to the plate and have replaced the first saw at no expense to you. You have, I hope unintentionally, merged your issues as if you still had the original saw.
Your wobble problem is more likely the blade than the saw.
And what about the motor issue? What is really happening?
I do agree that over tensioning is not going to distort a wheel.
Don
You're right; Rikon did step up to the plate. It took and while and the second go-round has been less than stellar.
Regarding the blades - I've noted that small blades tend to produce small reciprocation and large blades produce more extreme reciprocation. I have about six blades and all seem to follow this general rule. However, I cannot rule out the blades, but what I'm seeing is consistent. I guess it might be telling to mark the blade at the greatest extent of movement and then loosen and rotate the wheels and recheck. If the problem is with the wheel the greatest extent of movement will move. If the problem is with the blade, the point will stay the same.
What I'm seeing with the second saw is similar to the first and Rikon told me the upper wheel was the culprit. My assumption is that I'm experiencing the same thing to a lesser degree. I'm going to get a gauge on the upper wheel and see if I can discover any anomalies, but I haven't taken the time yet.
As for the motor, I'm perplexed. I'm a competent electrician, but my knowledge does not extend to motors. I doubt the failure is due to over-tensioning. I checked and rechecked the power supply and everything is as it should be. I don't know why a capacitor fails. I would like to know.
A small possibility
I have one of these Rikon saws and have been very happy with it. It sounds like you've looked at just about everything but just in case...
I had trouble with not being able to properly tension the blade that came with the saw and with one other, so I was getting too much flutter. It tuns out the blades were slightly off on length from their nominal lengths. Rikon does provide an adjustment to the upper wheel so you can allow for blades being slightly off. Adjusting the wheel position fixed the problems with my saw.
a123 and Don
I have one of the original 18" Ricon bandsaws. Not used every day but often enough.. It has worked well for my needs.
I mostly used 3/4 inch 3 tooth per inch blades in the past. I now use mostly 1/2 inch blades.
I am commenting here only for the fact that my Rikon has cut ALOT of wood and the only real problem I had was a ball bearing freeze up on one of the blade guides.. (and it was warm outside)... ;>)
I had the broblem with a 3/4 inch blade moving forward and backward. I think the same issue Don stated. The blade was not properly welded. I foun this out by laying the blade on its back out in the driveway. I'm not sure of the proper term to use but the back of the blade did not lay flat. If you looked at the blade laying on its back it sort of had a roller coaster look.. As in a small hump. Make sense? I switched to Lenox brand and no more problems with blades!
As to the Cap going bad... http://www.clrwtr.com/Single-Phase-Electric-Motors-Characteristics-Applications.htm
See Capacitor Start/Induction Run
See Permanent Split Capacitor
Genera information only at the above link.
I realize that it is a pain in the butt, but, a Cap going bad is not that unusual. Even with a new motor. I can only judge this from my working with many differents motors during my working life. 480 Volt (Maximum) motors I worked with.
Anyway, I hope you get your saw working well. I only know of one that works well. Mine.
update
Rikon sent a capacitor and upon replacing it I found a failed crimp connection. I can't be sure if this was the problem as I don't know if it happen while I was taking it appart or it was the problem. Regardless, the crimp wasn't secured nor soldered. I soldered all the connections and the new capacitor worked fine.
I'm now working on getting a new top wheel as I have found it is unquestionably out of round.
same problem
The start capacitor blows for a reason. It shouldnt be in the circuit after the motor comes up to speed.
I just got a bad motor on my Rikon 10-325 replacement saw. Replacement? Yes. I swapped my first one as the frame was not in allignment and after struggling with vibration and trying to track the blades, got confirmation of the problem from Rikon. I also ruined a brand new timberwolf blade when the stripped adjustment screw fell out of the lower wheel retainer bar. That bar is just soft steel tube. It cannot take the force they designed for it. Especially when that wheel needs constant adjustment. It stripped and the screw fell out, throwing the wheel out and tossing the blade into the metal door.
Anyway Rikon swapped the frame parts and all. Unfortunately the new one has a new motor and it died instantly. The cap is fried. BUT, I also noticed this motor did not sake the sounds my others do. I do not hear the click. This suggests to me that cap was in the circuit constantly and got fried. In this case the motor will fry every cap put into it if the main problem isnt fixed. This is a rewind problem.
SO saw number 2 is dead. Saw number one was dead for a month until Rikon got a swap in order. At this rate I should have went Laguna. The savings in price have eaten tremdous amounts of my time.
The only possitive of all this is I know that saw in and out. Here are the warts and how to fix them:
dust collection - take that plate right out and your saw will clean out nicely.
tension indicator: that little yellow pointer is a pain. It blocks the upper wheel housing from coming down all the way when you detension the blade. It also gets cought in the spring. Therefore you'll have the ever changing tension until you remove it.
Trunnion: terrible. just terrible. Worst bit of machined part I have ever seen. Rikon needs to totally revamp this.
Alllignment: if your saw will not track its likely not you. A few problems I have noticed on my two saws are unbalanced wheels and a frame that folds under tension. Rikon has beefed up the lower wheel adjustment. Unfortunatley that alignment will need constant adjustment with blade changes. A 1/4" blade for instance has less tension that a 3/4". You'll need to adjust that lower wheel for each blade size and its a real pain. This shouldnt be but it is. 3/4" blades are to big for this saw. Simple as that. Even though they claim it as the max size.
Rikon has good support but I must admit I am very tired of this saw. I've loaded/unloaded twice and setup two saws. Paying myself lost time I'd have enough to step up in saws BIG TIME. Lesson learned.
Rikon Bandsaw
I have an 18" Rikon and am on my third motor and I cross my fingers everytime I start the saw. First motor mishap was a burnt start capacitor. Rikon sent a free replacement but motor did not last long. Rikon then sent a replacement motor. That motor did not get much use before it stopped. For the cost of S&H Rikon sent me a third motor. These motors appear to have a very narrow tolerance for strain, especially during start up. Much like a compressor motor it must overcome an initial resistance, get up to speed, and disengage the capacitor from the circuit. As a side note, I believe a compressor has a greater initial resistance (to wanting to turn) and my compressor motor has never burnt up. I don't think blade tension or blade type has anything to do with their motor problems. A reliable motor overcomes and works in a wide spectrum of situations.
Tip: Urethane tires greatly improved the blade tracking.
Warning: Do not overtighten the lock screw for the lower rear guide bearing. The carriage it is attached to is hollow brittle metal and it will be punctured.
At every step of the way Rikon has treated me in a fair way with a minimal expense to me. My only frustration is that I don't have the beefy reliable no nonsense machine that I thought I was buying.
Thanks for you comments. It seems Rikon does indeed have some real problems with this saw. My post here and on other forumns has produced quite a few negitive comments. Rikon does, as you pointed out, have ok customer service. However, sometimes it appears to be a finger in the dike.
I too want a no nonsense machine and this one just isn't it.
The capacitor on the bandsaw isn't a "start" capacitor. It's a "run" capacitor.
I was able to finally find the right run capacitor that fit perfectly thanks to great customer service by John Buchanan at Eurton Electric Co. Inc. I found them on the Internet. The capacitor was $25 including shipping. That's a whole lot better than the deal from Sears Service. They said they would have to swap out the whole motor assembly for $400. BTW -- Even the Customer Service reps at Grizzly did search for me, but didn't have what I needed. I was amazed that their Customer service was so much better than what I got from Sears. All I got from Sears Parts was an email to Dear Valued Customer explaining that they couldn't sell me the part i needed. I tried contacting Rikon and they never responded.
!8 " bandsaws
Ok, I'm trying to decide on a decent 18" or bigger bandsaw, but I don't have more that $1300 to spend on it. I hear good things and bad things about the Rikon and Laguna saws. Then there are Jet, General, Delta, Powermatic and many more. How in the heck does one know what complaints to listen to and which ones are operator error or just bad luck.?
first things first
Hey was in your shoes may a moon ago and there are lots of options. However noticing from your profile you are brand new. I'd reccomend a couple items. First complete your profile so folks have a general idea where you are at. Someone might have a solution but if your on the west coast and the solution is on the east coast might not make sense. Second, this is an old thread, and you are wanting reccomendations on band saws so start a new thread with the topic " need help on purchase of bandsaw" or something similar. Do a search on key words and you will probably find some posts that have discussed the topic in the past. I will let you know though some may be real old as the trafic to this forum is no where near what it use to be, so models and such are only good for a short time as you are aware everything changes.
Now as for me, I have a Grizzly 17" hd saw I've had for well over 6-7 years ( i forget how long its been so long) and its performed fine. I've got it set up for resaw. I paid less than a thou. Now however I'd go old iron (do a search on that and you will see my posts) I recently purchased an old BS from the 30's and I'm rehabing it. It was running I'm just putting new bearings in the upper and lower wheels and a new motor. and I'll have less than 300 bucks probably and will have a 16" 1000 lb monster that will cut rings around anything today. I just posted a thread where I saw a saw someone had fixed up and was selling I think near DC or baltimore for 750.00. Again, I don't know where you are from so that may not be practicle. Anyway if your interested go over (see the link in my sig) and register and take a look around. Old American Iron beats anything made today hands down! And a lot of it has been running for decades not months or years. You know back when we made things and did it well. Thats anoter topic all together. Good luck!
Rikon 10-340 Proud Owners (The Other side of The Story)
I purchased the Rikon 10-340 the first year that model came out. About 80% of the time I use a 1" 3-TPI Tri-Master carbide Blades on mine for resawing. I run these blades at 3220 RPMs The other 20% I use Lennox's 1/2" 3/8" and even 1/4" spring steel Blades running them at 1750 RPM .My machine runs 6 out of 7 days a week for the past 5 years without once having even a hickup. I have made my living off this machine and couldn't ask for a better quality Bandsaw or Resaw for the money. I also recomended this machine to a fellow cabinet maker some 2 plus yrs ago and the only hickup he had is when he installed the V-Link Belt and found that the V-link Belt can't take the torque without slipping and burning. I have literary resawn 1000's of board feet on this machine and like my fellow woodworker, have never had any problems with our machines and would recomend them as Fine WoodWorking and American WoodWorker did to me. Their opinion of a machine weigh heavy in my puchase of a product as it does thousands of other readers and having been a professional builder and craftsman for the past 35+ years, I think I know a quality machine when I see one and the Rikon 10-340 and 10-345 are the BEST BandSaw for the money. Bar None. I have a sneaky idea there is a lot more to your article than you are leading readers to believe. I suggest readers spend the time and do the research on Rikon and they too will probably come to the same conclusions as I did Rikon is a very good machine and they do stand behind their product. Thanks John Miller.
Rikon saw for high school use
I am a high school technology teacher and am looking to buy a bandsaw. I was seriously considering the Rikon 10-345, but after your feedback I am a little nervous. Is there a saw that you better recommend? I cannot afford to spend over 1500 really.. Does anyone know if there is any truth to sawstop creating a band saw??
Thanks for your help
alternatives
Depending on what size of bandsaw you are looking for, and the intended placement/use, Jeff,you might consider the traditional brands: Delta, Powermatic, Jet, Laguna, etc. Or, the new-traditional, including Grizzly. Or, refurbishing an "old iron" unit from one of the now-defunct manufacturers of the early 20th century.
Delta has changed hands several times in recent years, so their product line is not what it used to be. But, there is still a fair amount of previously-manufactured units in the supply chain.
The SawStop technology may be difficult to adapt to the bandsaw, since bandsaw blades aren't rigid like TS blades. If they succeed, I'd expect them to attempt to make their technology mandatory (as they are doing with table saws), at which point the meat-cutting industry would be out of business. So, we'd all have to buy whole cows, instead of just a steak. ;-)
In fairness, after addressing the problems I have to say that I do like the Rikon Saw. The frustration level was enormous and long. The saw now is fine; it's powerful, resaws beautifully, and behaves nicely. The problems aren't engineering related per say, but with customer service and manufacturing. Successful customer service doesn't stop at a certain point. Is Rikon bad - no. Is Rikon as good a Luguna - no. Is it a good saw at the price level - yes. Is Rikon's customer service robust enough to handle problems - no.
Blade wobble
I have two of these saws and I have experienced blade wobble. Every time it has turned out to be the blade. I have several other even larger band saws. The bigger they are the more likely they are to wobble. I bought four timber wolf blades a woodcraft and three of them wobbled and one was perfect. I have never found blade wobble to be anything other than a poorly welded blade. Been using band saws for forty five years.
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