While sorting through some of the silliness on the recent post about table saws, I noticed a comment about the right tilt being better for cutting panels. I’ve been of the opinion that left tilt was better because the material was not trapped under the blade.
What are the pros and cons of each tilt direction?
Replies
Saw
What I've read from the folks who look at these things closely and do testing is that the left tilt is better. My unisaw tilts right and I've never considered changing. I can also slide my fence to the left side of the blade although with limited distance as opposed to the right side.
SA
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I've been in the business a long time. My work is primarily cabinetry, case furniture and architectural woodwork. The number of times I need to rip bevels is very infrequent. I'm much more likely to be crosscutting bevels or compound angles. I may be using the miter bar or sleds and prefer to work to the left of the blade. A right tilt tilts away from my hands in these situations, the work is good face up. I also have more room in the shop to work to that side of the saw, plus, it's more comfortable for me.
On a table saw, you often want the good face up due to the direction of the blade teeth. With the quality blades we have today, that may not be an issue in many materials. When I need to rip a bevel, I usually am concerned with getting a perfect cut. Typically, I'm using hold downs, feather boards or a stock feeder. I'm not likely to be hand feeding without some type of aid to keep the cut consistent and safe.
In normal fence to the right of the blade, on a left tilt, it's easy for the work to pinch against the blade, perhaps effecting the fine edge of the cut. With a right tilt, and the proper aids, the work is held tight to the table and there isn't any chance of pinching down against the blade. If your stock is straight and flat, the saw is set up properly and you are using aids to keep the work in alignment, work trapped under the tipped blade isn't an issue. Without these conditions, you can have problems with either left or right tilt.
In cases where the material is sensitive and the good face has to be up, I'll often use a ripping sled to the left of the right tilt. On long pieces, it can be necessary to move the fence to the left of the blade. No matter how many times I've done this, it isn't very comfortable, so I make sure I use aids to assist when this configuration is warranted. Since for me, this is so infrequent and the other more common saw uses are more easily facilitated with a right tilt, I prefer a right tilt.
You would have to answer the questions of what you normally do, what side of the blade you prefer to work on and how much room you have to either side of the blade. As far as worries about trapping work, that's more a matter of knowing how to use and accessorize the saw as well as prepping materials.
Interesting points
Thanks for the perspective hammer. More than anything it points out that personal style and how we were trained dictates the way we work comfortably. For many years most of my work was onsite custom cabinets. My first apprenticeship was with a guy that built all his carcasses with a circular saw and a plywood cutting guide. Though it sounds funny, he was one of the most precise craftsmen I've ever worked with, and one of the fastest.
Since we did mostly site work, I've typically used contractor saws and they were all left tilt. That's what I was trained with, so that is my comfort zone. I fully agree with the use of hold downs, feather boards, and now the riving knife. In addition to ensuring an accurate cut, it is a lot safer. I've been a "dual career" person for a long time and my other career taught me the value of protecting yourself.
Jigs and sleds make life so much easier as well. The guy that bought my old saw hit the jackpot because the sleds and jigs he got were worth more than I charged for the entire package. As things have evolved, I find myself doing much more intricate projects and that has pushed my skills to a whole new level.
Side note to Charlie: I did see your response before you edited it. I do have a life, thank you very much. I'll leave the rest of my comments to your imagination.
Whatever works for you ...
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Completely ignorant statement
Marketing ploy? What the crap are you talking about? Since your saw works one way, the world is wrong for doing it differently? It must be lonely in your world.
There are a number of reasons for cutting miters and crosscut bevels on a table saw. Accuracy and repeatability are two. Radial arms saw are terrible for precision cuts and I would never trust one for quality crosscuts. Given the choice between your opinions and a table saw, I'll take the table saw everytime. Especially a well tuned left tilt cabinet saw.
Personal preference
I prefer my left tilt for the following reason. My Incra 1000 miter gauge has a 36" fence on it and I prefer having the unit on the right hand side of the blade and be supported by the big extension on that side. Again, personal preference.
Miters
That would be my comment you are referring to. Since you have asked I will explain.
I would agree that if mitering panels between fence and blade the left tilt is better but the resulting quality is inconsistent either way.
Like most, I cut my teeth on a left tilt table saw, thank God for Sears, and I mean that. My woodworking career started building miles of production kitchen cabinets which involved ripping miters on a lot of panels. A some point after starting my own shop I found an old Delta Unisaw in good shape I could afford, I have it to this day. It was a great step up but how to miter panels with a right tilt. The method I found results in perfect miters. First cut the panel to net size, which will result in crisp clean edges. Tilt the blade to 45 degrees. Clamp a sacrificial fence to the table saw fence. lay a piece of the stock you want to cut flat with the edge against the fence and scribe a pencil line on the fence. Raise the blade slightly and move and lock the fence toward it gauging by eye so that after turning on the saw and raising the blade it cuts a kerf just below the scribed line. Lower the blade so it doesn't hang and adjust the fence outward and repeat the cut until the top of the kerf splits the line. At this point make a partial test cut into a setup piece to insure the kerf breaks into a knife edge on the setup but no gap shows between stock and fence, adjust again if necessary. Lower the blade below the table, place the setup piece face down against the fence and clamp a straight piece of scrap to the fence on top of the setup piece trapping it to the table. Remove setup piece and raise the blade back up into the sacrificial fence. This takes less time than it took me to write the first couple of sentences. Turn on the saw and fence the edge you want to miter and make the cut. The waste will be trapped between the blade, fence and table so to avoid kickback of same you will either need a helper to pinch the falloff to the bottom on the outfeed to help it through the blade or push it clear with a piece of scrap/pushstick and backing out before cutting through. It goes without saying as with any ripping operation the operator will be standing to the left of the blade so if a kickback (however unlikely) occurs it will not injure, although it will knock the setup out of place. The result will be perfect crisp miters and sharp corners if doing multiple sides.
Yes this could be done as well on a left tilt, but due to the design of table saws and the way most are used to working on them the right tilt is a more efficient and probably safer machine for this operation.
Thanks for the insight
Thanks Rob, you helped me see how to alleviate a problem I've dealt with for years; that incremental creep of the fence for bevels. I never thought of using a sacrificial fence to align the cut. Makes perfect sense, and it will also work on my left tilt saw (sorry Charlie, but it ain't a marketing ploy after all). The key is always trapping the waste against the fence rather than the workpiece. I appreciate you explaining that so clearly. If you get a chance, add a couple of pictures to help my old and feeble mind fully understand.
Thanks again!
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Funny you should mention the superior dust collection aspect of cabinet saws. Had some friends over this morning looking at the new cabinet saw. Everybody remarked about how much cleaner the shop is after some heavy use of the saw. In fact, two guys have been considering upgrading their shops and decided to order Powermatics Monday to replace their contractor saws. And they got a good laugh at your posts as well.
Thanks for the continuing entertainment.
The ultimate in dust collection
For the ultimate in dust collection, I now use virtual wood in a virtual workshop created in SketchUp, and only create virtual woodworking projects. No dust at all! ;-)
Ah, but do you use a virtual cabinet saw or contractor saw?
Is there a virtual Charlie in there complaining?
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Quit making me laugh
[quote CharlieL]Well good for you and your buddies. Laugh all you want. The difference between you, and myself is that I took the tougher road that is less traveled, and spent the time to solve a dust collection problem for myself and others who have Contractor's table saws. You bought your way into it with a more expensive industrial saw, anyone can do that. I've also done other dust collection related work that I've recieved many compliments on, and at one time a woodworking machinery and tools company here in the USA was makeing and selling a product that I designed. You don't need to tell me about dust collection. I'd put my Contractor's table saw dust collection up against any Cabinet saws dust collection
You're one funny dude. I bet you're a hoot at parties.
I'm quoting you this time since you continually edit your posts after making a fool out of yourself. Interesting how you can't stand by your own comments but have to keep changing what you've said, even after months have gone by. I'm intrigued by this product you designed. What was the name of it, who was marketing it, and what was the patent number? Surely you can supply those minute details to verify this.
Seriously, you gotta quit listening to the voices in your head. I never said I bought a cabinet saw because of better dust collection. That aspect is certainly a benefit. I upgraded to a cabinet saw because of better power, greater accuracy, more versatility, and to piss you off. This saw has exceeded my expectations in all aspects, especially pissing you off.
In one of your posts that you quickly edited, you commanded me to get a life. Take a look in the mirror and take your own advice.
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Apology to the board
I have deleted this post because I used language that was inappropriate. While I stand firmly on the things I said, I should have used better judgement. This thread had some good comments about the actual subject of right and left tilt saws and I appreciate those folks sharing their experiences. I'm sorry I chose to respond to the foolish comments of one person and and participating in this train wreck. I will do my best to not make this mistake again.
I came to this board to learn more about my craft, not argue. Going forward, I hope you all will allow me to contribute to this community.
Again, please accept my apology for this debacle.
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I give up ...
wericha wrote:
I concede, you're a bigger dickhead than I am, and that is saying a lot. You are the only moron on the board arguing about what kind of saw is being used, and I'm the only moron arguing with you. I'm ashamed of my behavior.
I'm here to learn how to be a better craftsman, you're here to be, well, a dick. You're much better than I am.
Hopefully the good folks on this board will forgive me for participating in your ignorance and stupidity, and will allow me to participate in the intelligent conversations going forward.
Hopefully you will seek help for your condition, accept treatment and medication, and find a way to join society when the time is right. We love you Chuckie, we want you to be OK, and we're here for you when you are ready to abandon your illusions of grandeur and face the harsh realities of who you really are.
Who cares ? I'm sick and tired of your degradeing and childish name calling just because I have a different opinion then you do. These forums don't pay me enough to put up with people like you. Oh wait, they don't pay me at all. Growup.
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I agree
A very reasonable and informative response, especially since it didn't include any cowardly responses that had to be redacted before too may folks saw it. Imagine that. But then, you wouldn't know anything about that, would you Charlie?
Just out of curiousity, how come you have edited and deleted so many if not most of your posts? Seems rather odd that you can't stand by your own statements.
Wericha
It may be just semantics but if your fence is actually moving when you say "creep" as in not locked down tight then obiviously no method of cutting will yield precise and repeatable results. We are probably on the same page here but I just wanted to be sure.
I will try to post some picsso check back in later.
Wrong term
Yeah, creep wasn't really the right term. What I was talking about was the need to move the fence in slighty to complete the cut when beveling both sides. For example, set the fence at 4 inches and make the first pass. When I flip the piece around, the fence has to be moved in a little to make the edge crisp.
The method you describe eliminates that entirely. It actually works regardless of the direction of the tilt. All I have to do is move the fence to the left of the blade. I'll try it out this afternoon after I work on the top for my new router table.
Kickback
Remember to use a push block to back up the piece before the triangular piece of waste is cut free. I can almost guarantee a nasty kickback in the form of a high speed projectile if you fail to do this. I usually stop the cut and hold the panel with one hand and pickup a push stick with the other long enough to push the scrap clear of the blade, then complete the cut, once clear, back the push stick out before the triangle on it separates as well.
For those with less experience or who may not know better, with any ripping operation you will want to stand off to one side of the line of fire while cutting in case control is lost- you don't want to become Sis Kabob, save it for the grill. Furthermore this is probably not a good technique for the inexeperienced, one has to crawl before walking-or sprinting as the case may be.
Be Safe
Rob
Because it's a miter cut, some portion of the keeper side will always be in contact with the fence. With that understood, all one has to do is lower the blade so that the portion being cut off will barely still be attached after the full pass. Then simply break off this triangular potential missle and toss it away. Now, raise the blade a bit and make another full pass with the keeper portion. Viola! A perfect miter without any danger.
I've done this on a right tilt Unisaw hundreds of times when making full mitered carcasses.
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