I was approached for a possible job that, in part, involves a lot of restoration/ matching work. In addition to the normal stuff which is not an issue, the customers want to restore the staircase and add onto it by building additional matching railing and decorative molding/paneling for the third floor, which at one time was just an attic. It appears that a prior owner removed much of what was up there as well, so there’s a lot of new woodwork that has to be done. The couple want new base board, crown and window casement all, however, matching what’s already in the house. This is a very old house and none of it is easily reproduced. Non of it seems to match what’s available either from a millwork store or from available router profiles.
The couple want to extend the molding that is on the stair stringer around the floor opening at the top of the stair. Plus they need two matching box newels, railing and balusters for the top floor. Non of the big shops in town would touch the work, because I would assume, nothing is standard. Now, i could come up with a combination of bits to approximate the profile on the stringer, but it won’t be the same. Same thing goes for the window trim work. The rest of it including, the hand carvings on the tops of the box newels, ballusters and the railings would all have to have some serious custom work involved. So to the baseboards and crown. For the baseboard, crown, and perhaps the profile on the stringer, the only way I can see to truly match it up would be with a molding machine and custom made molding blades. I had been considering a planner/molder for awhile now, but really don’t know what’s involved with, or how good of an idea it is having custom blades made to match a specific profile.
My thinking. They’ve already added different elements to the house, jatoba flooring for example and they alluded to an intention for the third floor room, it’s one big loft room by the way,to be distinctive, for example, I would be building them cherry cabinetry. Originally, they were simply going to buy semi custom at a big box, but they liked my idea of the custom cabinetry to match the basic style of the house. That last statement I think is key. Matching or staying within a style or theme. I’m thinking of advising them to move away from trying to match identically and carry that throughout the third floor in favor of a more practical approach that would save money and potential disappointment. I’m thinking the best way to go would be to simply try to match some elements to the style and theme, and not worry so much about matching perfectly. For instance, that box newel at the top of the third floor would go, and in it’s place would be a similar post but without the hand carving. All the moldings would be similar in style but not identical etc. I know what I’m suggesting may be sacrilege to purists, but unless their willing to shell out big bucks and get a highly regarded restorer in to do the work, I think that’s the best alternative. This is probably what I will explain to them.
Pic 05 shows where the profile on the stringer terminates, I would have to turn that corner and extend it around the stair opening.
Thoughts people???
Edited 5/13/2008 8:30 am ET by dperfe
Replies
This type of work is typically done in architectural cabinet shops. They have molding machines called four siders. It can be expensive for short runs since the knives may have to be custom ground. Ordinarily, they have large libraries of cutters and may just have some that will match. You should look for an AWI certified shop or one that has a molding machine. You may have to wait until they have some time for your job.
The smaller molding planers, Williams and Hussey, Woodmaster, etc, only use a single knife. When it comes to wide moldings in hardwood, they are challenged. Logosol makes a two and four side molder. You may want to browse their knife collection. A lot of money for one project. Rather than running the skirt as one piece of molding, you can often duplicate the shapes. or very close, and do it as a build up.
Someone with a lathe spindle duplicator could make the ballusters.The newel tops will have to be carved by hand. You will want to make a ramped jig for the flutes since they taper off the stock at the end of the cut. This type of work can get expensive. The L. J. Smith 6109PO railing is fairly close to yours, there are probably others. Other than the spindles, I think I'd try to come close with a build up on the skirts and use a railing that was similar. The newel tops could be sent to a carver and added later.
http://www.logosol.com/_planers/dh410/
http://www.ljsmith.net/products.asp
A Williams and Hussey ( or clone ) would be a good choice for this project. It would be less expensive to buy and have cutters made than to get an architectural millwork shop involved. Gives you more control over the project as well.
Of course, it all depends on the homeowners budget.
The Williams and Hussey ( or clone ) uses a set of 2 knives . They also offer a multiple pass feature that lets you sneak up on the final profile for a really nice finish.
Paul
Thanks people
The commercial issues also bear some thinking of.
You might want to charge hourly and not just for the job as there will be many times when you need to exceed their budget. maybe time+matrerials
Could you break the job into sections so that they could get used to the budget implications
Could you hire in a restorer/carver specialist to help and if so at what cost vs gain in productivity.
Do you really want to do this job ?? is the real big question followed by can they afford it or are they willing to afford it.
regards
Al
Al,I talked to the guy today. He's gonna go with the second option I discussed. I told him how much it would be to replicate those elements particularly the balusters. The price was prohibitive. So I'm going to build him a railing, newel posts and skirt, that I can easily create with what I have. He's planning on doing the installation himself, which is more than fine by me. He is breaking the work down into specific jobs, which is preferable. Do one at a time, get paid and then move on.
I've been involved with a restoration project where we had to (exactly) reproduce several molding profiles. Here's what I found:
1 Custom molding shops charge you for the cutters
2 Custom shops OWN the cutters even tho you have paid for them
3 Custom shops have a minimum run AND set-up charge.
4 Some custom shops charge more than others.
5 Some custom shops want to give you what THEY think you want, not what YOU want.
6 Custom shops are expensive, but if you add all the time it takes to get the knives, set up the machine, find the wood, run the wood, they MAY be wort it.
**Item 3... Most shops have a minimum run & set-up charge. It is is OK if you need 125 linear feet of molding and their minimum is 150 feet. BUT..... if you mis-calculate and need another 20 feet of molding, you're going to pay for 150 feet. Calculate VERY carefully and add a percentage for waste.
Your job sounds quite interesting and involved. BE VERY careful how you figure your time and materials. It could be a golden opportunity for a beautiful restoration, so research carefully, quote prices carefully and best of luck. Make sure EVERYTHING is in writing, both for your protection and the customers.
SawdustSteve
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