Hi All
I’m getting to the final stages on a somewhat rustic walnut table. There will be dye and glaze coats applied, with dewaxed shellac between coats. I’ve done the entire schedule on scrap and it looks pretty good. Before I proceed though, I have a couple of vital questions:
1)I have a couple of gallons of Resithane Plus that lots of WWers were raving about last year. It is indeed easy to work with, although it leaves a glossy, slightly plasticky finish. I tried sanding the final coat back to get a low lustre finish and it looked OK after I applied wax, but was powdery before the wax. I’d love a recommendation for getting the low lustre finish without wax (which I assume will look crappy after the wax goes away).
2)Can I expect this product to work well for a table top? The distributor makes all kinds of claims about the durability of this stuff but I don’t see anybody talking about using it anymore. I would be happy to buy something else if it would work much better.
Thanks!
David
Replies
I don't know this specific product, but it appears to be a basic waterborne acyrlic finish, probably with some added amber color to eliminate the "blue" cast of some early waterbornes. It will likely be moderately durable,but I don't know what, if anything, distinquishes this product from other waterborne finishes. I can be confident that a oil based varnish will be more durable.
Let me ask a question or two about how you sanded when you were seeking the low luster sheen. What grit did you use, and how long did you wait before sanding?
Resithane Plus can be purchased with a satin sheen. Using the satin formulation should resolve your first issue.
It should be usable on a table top. Being a waterborne, it will not be as water and abrasion resistant as an oil based varnish. But, it's probably just fine unless the table is and everyday use kitchen table.
ah, there you have it in your last sentences. You sound as if you are putting a LOT of work into getting this finish "just right", and THEN you want to put something on it that even by your own evaluation, "looks plasticky". There are so many easy wipe on NON poly varnishes that will give you the (obvious to me) "in the wood" finish you desire. Don't compromise just because you have something on the shelf--that you don't really like. Just my opinion. Good luck.
There are a number of ways to reduce the gloss of a finish. Perhaps the easiest is to add additional flattening agents. However, I would suggest you contact the manufacturer before you do this. He may tell you that doing this will compromise the finish in some way. He may also have a supplemental flattening agent he can supply.
There are mechanical ways to reduce the sheen. They involve "rubbing out" the finish in a number of ways. I tend to wet sand with 600 grit and then 1200 grit wet and dry paper. The will produce a matte (no sheen) finish it that is what you want. To do this properly you must start with a perfectly flat surface. You should be flat sanding between each coat with 320-400 grit to make and keep a perfectly flat surface.
Another approach is to use a non-woven abrasive pad like Scotchbrite. Rub the surface evenly with a gray pad until it has the sheen (or non-sheen) you want.
A final approach is to use less finish. The more coats you apply, the more noticeable the finish will be. But, keep in mind that the less coats you apply, the less protection the finish will produce.
Couple of other things. To rub out successfully, requires that the finish be fully cured. For oil based finishes this can take 4-6 weeks. For lacquer and shellac, 2-3 weeks should be allowed.
Do not attempt any of the above with first learning and practicing on some scrap from your project. These processes require some learning and practice
Many thanks for the advice Howie. I think I'll try the rubout method. How long do you think I should let the Resithane cure before final rubout?
I would give it 3-4 weeks to fully cure. Waterborne finishes become tack free within an hour or so when the water evaporates. However the secondary, and most important curing process takes 3-4 weeks. After that time the finish has developed its full harness and adhesion.
If you are going to rub out, be sure you have applied enough coats to create a think enough film that you don't sand through as you work the finish.
OK, thanks!
I don't know her much but . . .
Ms Gretchen is darn frustrating to try to carry on a conversation with. To me she comes across as a sniper who shows up to point out problems but when one asks for help . . .
nothing !
I am not a finisher and have limited experience but for an in the wood, natural feeling/looking finish the Maloof mix of one third each raw tung oil, boiled linseed oil and urethane sure looks great. He put in the urethane to add protection against stains from spills etc. Can buy it as a premixed product in a jug.
Well, gee Roc. Thanks so much for caring. I did suggest a wipe on non-poly varnish. The OP has now decided to go with his original finish and rub it out. To me that is much more work, but if the finished product is what he likes, then have at it.
And to answer his question, yes, it would be very protective with enough coats wiped on. I do 8-10 on tops and 6-8 on the sides where there won't be as much wear.
Have even used the maloof finish, but used a non-poly varnish. I have used it for decorative boxes that will not get a lot of wear.
Ms Gretchen: Oh, you are quite welcome.
I'll tell you right out I'm a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk.
(or woman)
: )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yiq5Fkr3yX8&feature=related
Not to gang up on you Gretchen, but I really do appreciate your feedback. I was following through on my original question about how to get a decent finish on the waterborne but was actually swayed by your opinion on the non-poly finish. It seems like a better choice, even though I'm ethically drawn to the waterborne. I like the idea of Roland Johnson's Hotrod Finish. What do you think?
I have read about that finish and have never used it, so that is my experience. In reading it, it seems a lot of ado about nothing. It is SO easy to dilute some good varnish 50/50 with mineral spirits and wipe it on as has been described. It dries quickly, is foolproof, no drips, runs or errors. If you miss a spot, you'll get it with the next application. It is possible to apply 2 or 3 coats per day, because you don't want it to completely cure/dry. I will also tell you that the first 2-3 coats look awful and you'll say, not for me. But don't be fooled--it will begin to glow subsequently.
Waterborne and "ethics". While it says "water", it also has other carriers. Just an FYI, not a judgement!
And no problem about "ganging up". I just didn't understand the comment, and still don't. LOL
The same company that sells resisthane sells satin rub for rubbing out finishes. I Use a fiber pad (not steel) on my orbital sander, cut to fit, and depending on the pad you can rub your top to the desired sheen without removing a lot of finish. I noticed the finish looked glossier just after rubbing out than after a few hours of setting. You can also use this in between coats to remove imperfections with very fine sandpaper. This is water based so no steel wool. I too don't like a plastic looking finish, but I do like the protection especially with a table top.
Devid:
I interpret "inconspicuous" to mean low build. Spraying 3 coats of any normal build finish will leave enough film on the surface of the wood to likely be "conspicuous" by comparison.
Some believe the best finish is one that's hard as glass. Only glass would be so. Even the most modern do it yourself finishes can be damaged if abused.
One fellow I know, long time woodworker who now owns a woodworking supply store, swears he and his wife are still using a dining table he made 25 years ago, finished with dewaxed shellac, and the finish is still like new. Don't know that I would make a dining talbe for myself with just shellac, but it's certainly an inconspicuous finish. He says they always put platters and casseroles on hot plates, glasses on coasters or placemats, and wipe up spills promptly, but otherwise no special treatment.
For a friend I applied three coats of Watco Danish Oil to a piece of rift red oak and told him to abuse with wet coffee mugs. He reported that a wet mug left on the sample three hours still left no mark whatsoever. I finished an ash tilt-top table this summer with shop made danish oil. Applied Transfast dye, the next day one coat of the danish oil wipe on wipe off. The next day dark brown oil based glaze applied uniformly. 48 hours to dry, another coat of danish oil. The next day black oil based glaze to highlight, another 48 hours and a final coat of danish oil. The wood still feels like ash, and the tabletop has a very low sheen. Another coat or two of danish oil would raise the sheen. Table hasn't been sold yet, but gets lots of appreciative comments.
If you decide to stay with satin spray finish, keep in mind that each coat adds some opaqueness to the finish, because of the imbedded flattening agent. More than 3 coats and it may be obscuring the grain and figure of the wood. That's why some people who want to satin or flat finish will spray gloss until the last coat.
Whatever, test your complete schedule thoroughly on largish scrap pieces first.
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