reinforcing a shed floor for hvy machine
greetings all,
I have a two story shed that was built with concrete blocks as a base. To make matters worse the area around the shed has standing water around part of the base during winter/spring.
Knowing this I purchased a 500 pound Grizzly lathe, and then bought a Grizzly 21″ band saw that is about 650 pounds. To make matters worse the only layout of the machines that makes scene is to arrange them in a straight line on one side of the shed.
So given the bad decisions made so far, what are the best options to reinforce the floor and in doing so prevent the shop from having the wall with all the weight from sagging and doing damage to the structure of the two story shed?
I planned to lay 2″ by 6″ by four foot boards under the saw running across the joists, but don’t think that is the answer.
any suggestions?
Yes I know I should have figured this out before delivery, but the sucker is so big!
TT
Replies
So given the bad decisions made so far ??? I wonder if all that bad? If at all!
Have a 'cement mud jacking company come out' and get their thoughts. I am sure it is not that inexpensive BUT maybe worth the expense for you...
And then again I have my shop that I let a Maple tree grow.. It is the floor jacker supreme! But very random to find water!
Hi WG,
Just got back to the computer. "cement mud jacking company" sounds like something I will look into. That's a great idea, Thanks.
TT
Reminds me of a 73 Wagoneer I didn't drive for a while. Southern White Pine started growing up by the front window. Didn't have to water though, the open wing window did that.
Not many board feet, at 13 inches tall.Boiler
Yep,
Next time buy a Grand Wagoneer!
Those sprouts would have been limited.
TT
It was.
They were :)
B.
:) you sure we are talking about Southern White Pine?
TT
Have you thought of providing a concrete pedestal for each machine with a trimmed hole through the timber floor?
This would carry the machine load without needing to reinforce the whole shed and floor.
Lapun.
Not many board feet, at 13 inches tall. AND the roots were spread out fer' miles!
TT,
the area around the shed has standing water around part of the base during winter/spring.
First off, get rid of the standing water. Don't know anything about the surrounding terrain but standing water is bad. If you can, make swail(s) or install drainage pipes so the water stays away from the building. Is there a footing under the block wall? Masonry walls need footings for support and to keep them from sinking/settling.
I see from your profile that you are in CT - what is the recommendation/code for dealing with frost in your area and does your foundation meet those recommendations/codes? In general the more mositure in the ground, in areas where frost is an issue, the more pronounced will be its effect on structures, i.e. rising and falling.
Are the machines going on the first or second story? Placing them along a wall is probably the best placement vs. in the middle. Also, I'm not sure if you are placing the 2 x 6's on edge or laying them on their faces? They will certainly help to spread the load but are stronger on edge.
Also, I would spread their location as much as possible to spread the load out. I think we need a bit more info. on the construction of your shed from the ground up.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hi Bob -
Thanks for the reply. When we bought the house the shed had an incredible amount of standing water, which came about because of a neighbor clearing a neighboring field of standing timber.Since we bought, we have fought more water than we expected. I know the previous owner told me that he had laid "a huge amount of concrete" to make sure the structure wouldn't move. Well the structure hasn't moved - but man was he was inclined to exaggerate!You asked if there was a footing under the block wall and the answer is above, but I am not sure. The machines are on the first floor next to the longest length of a rectangle base. The 2" by 6" bords that I planned to lay are flat - in order not to raise the machine a huge amount above the floor.. I can't move the floor plan of the two machines being adjacent as the lay out of the cutting ability would be weakened. The space is small.Any thoughts you have would be appreciated, I did note you comment that the layout against the wall would be preferable and take that as encouraging.I dad get a kick out of WG comment, I had bemoned to all what a bad decision I had made - on not one - but TWO really nice machines, and how I really regretted it and all... I realize I sounded a bit like Garrison Keeler's neighbor. Garrison would smile and I think WG is doing so already.I still have to fix this though... and still feel sorry for myself.
TT
TT,
Wish we could see a pic of your situation. Water is no fun to deal with 'cept when yer fishin of course. :-)
Please let us know how you rectify the problem. One thing I'm not clear on is whether you have water in the shed or just outside.
Oh yeah, I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee sans any flora. Well, I do put a wreath on the front around Christmas time though.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 4/16/2009 8:21 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob,
The water, as advertised,
is outside - just like, well, the Titanic.
Got the GC but no wreath.
Where do you get a Jeep GC Wreath?
TT
I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee..
When I was in the Army I got to drive a REAL WWII Jeep.. All we had..
But my 'TOY' was the.. M88 ..
Just a OLD Tank Mechanic here! I just loved saving a Tank Commander that told the crew to go THERE! We just smiled at each other and, well had a good belly laugh!
Edited 4/18/2009 10:00 pm by WillGeorge
Another possible thing to look at is the space available underneath the floor joists of the shed. If that area can be accessed, you might be able to slide piers (like those used for decks) under the joists for additional support. If there's no crawl space, it might be necessary to access it through the flooring.
Although most of the solutions might be inconvenient, at best, it's probably better to solve the problem before the entire floor sags and/or fails.
I'm not understanding you completely.
1. Do you have a cement block foundation that goes down below the frost line, or are you saying that your shed is just sitting on top of blocks which are sitting on top of the earth?
2. Is the floor of the shed a concrete slab, or is it some sort of wooden joist system with plywood over? If it is joists, what size are they? 2x4, 2x6, 2x12, etc.....?
As Bob said, you absolutely have to get the water out of there. I'm a mudjacking (concrete raising) contractor for 22 years now. I have alot of experience raising buildings just like yours, including buildings with wooden floor joist systems. I can guarantee you that the ground water situation will cause your shed to sink, unless it's sitting on kaisons, which I highly doubt. My shop is built into a hill by 36" on the back side. I dug an 18" deep trench, put 8" of gravel, followed by perforated siltscreen covered drain pipe that goes all the way around the building. It drains all the water away from my building, and it cost me $200.00 for the material.
Give me more info, and I'll help you solve your problem.
Edited 4/15/2009 9:01 am ET by JeffHeath
Jeff.
Regarding the foundation - the previous owner just said it was a block foundation which complied with local building codes for a "shed" He thain said he had concrete pored to strengthening the base. Your right on the water. I have built berms around the front, but unfortunately, we have a month or two where the water level in the ground simply makes the back and one side wet. I plan to buy more topsoil to fix the back - but I will always have problems. Your right right I have no kaison base. I guess I (with hired crew,) will put the machine in and see what happens!
Thanks!
TT
TT
Is the shed in the lowest spot of the terrain, or can you install a French train to cause the water to flow to another area that is lower?
What size floor joists do you have? Anything you can do to distribute the wight over more of the joists is good. I wouldn't want my saw on a platform unless that platform were large enough that I would be able to work on it without falling/tripping over the edge. So it seem to me you;d be looking at adding a sub-floor with joists running perpendicular to the original floor.
Can you remove part of the flooring, dig holes and pour stantion pads adding column supports across the end of the building where the heavy equipment will sit?
Not sure about the mudjacking comment. These guys jack concrete pads that are sinking by drilling a hole through the pad and pumping concrete in the void below the pad using very high pressure pumps so that the existing concrete pad is moved back into the original place. If you have a concrete floor, this may be an option. I've never heard of it used in other applications. If this person is suggesting you fill the crawl space under your floor joists with concrete, I advise against it. As with any concrete footer, you still need to go down below frost line to prevent future movement.
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
you still need to go down below frost line to prevent future movement.
And a good mud jacker will go well below the frost line!~ Then again a GOOD point stated..
Put in the contract how far below the 'frost line'... they will go.
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