Replies

1. 
   hammer1 | Jun 04, 2008 09:25am | #1

   I don't know where you are but there was plenty of fine woodworking being done in the South. Often the major centers were port cities like Charleston, Annapolis, Savannah, etc. Parts of this book are available on line.

   http://books.google.com/books?id=6VmY6qbkjeIC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=thomas+elfe&source=web&ots=JDm1KgNbJm&sig=Zm0uBfcdF1zIY38j59efh8-ElEM&hl=en#PPP1,M1

   You can follow some of the names of the cabinetmakers to gather more information. Many are not as well known or documented as New England cabinetmakers but there are some. Thomas Elfe, Anthony Hay, Edmund Dickinson. Of course, Colonial Williamsburg is a great resource and they have put out a book on Southern furniture.

   http://www.history.org/Publications/books/index.cfm?ItemId=91&SubCatID=39

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

2. 
   joinerswork | Jun 04, 2008 03:58pm | #2

   Chris,

   The Williamsburg book, Southern Furniture, by Hurst and Prown, is probably the best overview. Also,

    Furniture of Williamsburg and Eastern Virginia, by Gusler,  although some of his attributions have been re-thought by more recent scholarship, see American Furniture below. 

   The Art and Mystery of Tennessee Furniture, Williams and Harsh, shows many pieces that have less pretensions of high style. 

   Some of the series American Furniture, edited by Beckerdite, an annual publication of scholarly articles on all aspects of period American furniture, have been focussed primarily on southern topics, the 1997 and 2006 volumes are good ones.

   The Museum of Early Southern Decorative Arts is the name of a smallish (compared to CW's tome) catalog of the collection of  that museum, which has also published Moravian Decorative Arts in North Carolina, Bivins and Welshimer; while not solely on furniture, it has some good photos.  Also ,The Swicegood School of Cabinetmaking, catalog of an exhibition of NC furniture at MESDA, by Horton and Weekley, a thin paperback, but interesting stuff.

   The Clocks of Shenandoah, by Whitney.  A small book on tall-case clocks, it suffers from poor photography, and from an unfortunate selection of paper that further reduces photo quality, nonetheless it is the only book I know that focuses on this admittedly narrow topic. 

   Although I do not have a copy, Paul Burroughs' Southern Furniture was probably the earliest book on the topic, late 1920's, I believe.

   Locally to me, Rockbridge County Artists and Artisans, Crawford and Lyle, has a nice section on furniture.  Yoiur local historical society may have produced something similar. 

   And Carlyle Lynch's Furniture Antiques Found in Virginia, while including some northern imports, has several very nice pieces of southern lineage, that are measured and drawn for the woodworker to reproduce.

   John Kirk's American Chairs, gives a small nod to the South as one of the regions covered in this book.

   Ray

1. 
   hdgis1 | Jun 04, 2008 04:17pm | #3

   Well, I'd say thats a pretty good list to start with! Jeez! Thanks so much for the quick and excellent answer.
   Chris

1. 
   dkellernc | Jun 04, 2008 05:02pm | #4

   A couple of additional books that focus on furniture made in the Southern colonies:

   The Furniture of Charleston 1680-1820 (3 volume set) - Bradford L. Rauschenburg and John Bivens Jr.  2003. 

   This is the definitive set of books on Charleston Furniture, and it's huge  The 3-volume set weighs nearly 20 pounds.  5000 copies were printed, and you can still get it for the publication price, but act quickly.  Books like these hang around for 5 years or so and then go up stratospherically in price when the publisher runs out.  You can get a copy from http://www.thebestthings.com, http://www.mesda.org, and SAPFM's website - http://www.sapfm.org.

   The Furniture of Coastal North Carolina - John Bivens Jr. 1988. 

   This is a rather large tome that includes a great number of pieces that are not photographed or described elsewhere.  It's out of print, and much sought-after.  Plan on paying a minimum of $500 for less-than-nice copy.  You might be able to access the book through inter-library loan (the North Carolina public library system had several copies in the system last time I checked).

   .

2. 
   hdgis1 | Jun 05, 2008 11:31pm | #12

   Perhaps I should qualify things by saying that although rather new to the 'period' furniture thing (yes, Ive read everyones arguements about exactly what period furniture is), I would like to focus on creating reproduction pieces that are regionally appropriate. Whether thats Virginia, NC, or Georgia is only part of the equation. It may be true that much furniture was shipped south or to the south from overseas, but it seems that there must be historically documented furniture makers who were developing their own style at the same time the famous northern makers were.Chris

1. 
   AdamCherubini | Jun 06, 2008 03:10am | #13

   "but it seems that there must be historically documented [Southern] furniture makers who were developing their own style at the same time the famous northern makers were.I don't think there's any question that that's true. All the Southern furniture I've seen does indeed indicate some level of unique style. Peter Scott had his cabriole leg and foot. Thomas Elfe his famous fret etc. That's true. You have to ask yourself what a regional style is or why it came about. In Philly, one firm built furniture that people really liked (Affleck- Jugiez for example). So other firms started copying that style. They did it to get customers and because their customers had furniture from the first shop in their homes and wanted something to go with it. In Williamsburg there was only ever one or possibly two cabinetshops. And they were competing with St. Martin's Lane in London. Their customers had London furniture in their homes. That's the difference and the reason we don't see strong Southern regional styles.Individual craftsmen certainly did express their own esthetic sensibilities. But they were constantly playing catch up with London's fast paced couture. And the shops in St. Martin's Lane never saw Anthony Hay's work. So there was no feedback loop like there was in Philly or Boston or Rhode Island.My advice is to study English furniture, copy those fantastic styles, then call it Southern.Adam

2. 
   joinerswork | Jun 06, 2008 03:38pm | #14

   Chris,

   You are right.  And the books I recommended will be a good start toward getting an overview of just what Southern furniture encompasses.  It is a lot more wide ranging than the Tidewater Va neat and plain style that to Adam, defines the term.

   I really hope you (and Adam) start with the Williamsburg book, Southern Furniture: 1680-1830 by Hurst and Prown.  I promise, it will be eye-opening for you.

   Ray

    

   Edit

   Here's a link to the exhibit that spawned CW's book:

   http://www.chipstone.org/framesetspecialprojects.html

   Edited 6/6/2008 9:04 am ET by joinerswork

   Edited 6/6/2008 9:06 am ET by joinerswork

3. 
   a_Furnitologist | Jun 04, 2008 05:47pm | #5

   hdgis1...........been caught up in the Federal period with the Rough Cut show, and in the course of investigating using all of the above, came across a somewhat known  Kentucky cabinetmaker, Peter Tuttle.  He used fans and banding from the federal period in his work. Ruggle Books has a exhibition text for sale. Much of his work didn't ship well when the wagons moved west.

   My video blog......... recent episode on the Design process

   http://furnitology.blogspot.com/index.html]

4. 
   AdamCherubini | Jun 04, 2008 11:23pm | #6

   I recommend reading up on English furniture from that period. The reason Southern Furniture was never taken seriously as a style is not bigotry. It may not be a distinct style from English furniture.

   Styles are a bit like species. You need to have identifiable and unique characteristics to qualify. One could easily argue (and win) that there's no such thing as Southern Furniture. Just like a German Shepherd is not a separate species from a Dachshund. (hard to believe)

   Also, it's important to note that "Southern Furniture" as a style has nothing whatsoever to do with where it was made. Philadelphia furniture was made throughout the Delaware Valley. Some people suggest Delaware Valley furniture should be a separate style from Philly. One can make a better case for that than Southern Furniture. Or at least as far as I've seen it defined. I need to get to MESDA and look for myself. These definitions change as folks win and lose arguments.

   Anyway, I really like Georgian furniture, which is what many people call Southern today. Look for books on English, especially Georgian furniture and you may find what you are looking for.

   Beware that some of the pressure to identify pieces as "Southern" is dealer hype that we should remain above. Stylistically, Thomas Elfe made Georgian furniture for his customers who were trading regularly with London and buying London made furniture. Those ships left here loaded with tobacco, rice, or cotton. Return shipping was practically free for London based cabinetshops.

   The latest research (I think it was from Wallace Gusler) suggested more furniture was made domestically than was originally thought.

   My advice is to read all you can, but keep a skeptical eye. Your eye is as good as anyone else's. If you can't tell the difference between a Southern piece and a London Georgian piece, there is no difference. Things you can't see (like "tidewater" construction or secondary woods) don't count.

   Adam

1. 
   calvinhobbs | Jun 05, 2008 01:03am | #7

   Adam,

   While I would agree with most of what you say about Southern Furniture, it is only fair to impose the same restrictions on Boston, Philadelphia, New York, or Connecticut.

   There are English models of nearly all the Philadelphia carved pieces and the Boston blockfronts.  Maybe Newport can be credited with the innovation of the shells, etc., but by your guidelines very, very little can be called American.  At least not in the 18th century.

   Cal

1. 
   AdamCherubini | Jun 05, 2008 02:04am | #8

   Yeah...this is tough because you have to use some criteria. I mean, it's all brown, right? We could say its all basically the same. For the last 150 years at least, people have used fairly objective, arguably arbitrary criteria to group furniture. Generally, those groupings are regional, but individual pieces may have been made outside the region that "fit". "Southern Chippendale" or "Plain and Neat" is an excellent example. I get the sense that there are folks who feel elitist yankees established the ground rules and purposely disrespected the fine traditions of the South (again). That may well be true in other areas, but I don't see it here. If anything, I think there was a prejudice against English furniture, and the South's English looking pieces got lumped in. Even now, there's a huge disparity between English furniture values and American values.Personally, I like Georgian furniture very much and would be pleased to have it in my house.Adam

2. 
   joinerswork | Jun 05, 2008 03:12pm | #10

   Adam,

   You are confusing style with regional characteristics.  Just as a dog may be differentiated into German Shepherd, French Poodle and Scottish Terrier breeds, the Georgian style may be differentiated into Philadelphia, Rhode Island, and Tidewater Virginia regional expressions by people who have some education in the matter. 

   Further, to characterise all Southern furniture as "Georgian" is as delusional as saying all Philadelphia furniture is Rococo, or that all Rhode Island furniture has block fronts. There is as much, if not more, Southern furniture in the Federal style as Georgian, and quite a bit that might as well be called Empire or Victorian.  A style snob may turn his nose up and dismiss it with a sniff, but it is still here.

   The term "Southern", applied to furniture can mean nothing if not a reference to where it is made.  It is a convenient means of classification; certainly, as time has passed and research been published, it has come to characterise a single type of furniture no more than "New England" does. Few in the antiques trade would confuse a Dunlap highboy for a Chapin one; and few would think a Shearer oxbow chest was made by Elfe or Shaw, or that the work of any of the three came out of London.  This is not "dealer hype", but the sort of discernment that I would think an authority like you, of all people would understand.  Like the lady at the antiques forum long ago, I wonder whether you make such statements out of prejudice, or ignorance?

   You really ought to take your own advice, Adam, and do some reading on the subject before you spout off on it. 

   Yankees (sigh), bless their hearts,

   Ray

1. 
   AdamCherubini | Jun 05, 2008 05:08pm | #11

   Good Morning Ray,All I'm trying to say is that the "Southern Furniture" distinction is most helpful when you are selling furniture. When you are building furniture, it's particularly unhelpful. It would be better to call Elfe's work George III. When you go to the library and you are looking for furniture that looks like Elfe's put "Southern" in the keyword search and you get 6 books. Put "English" or "georgian" or "George III" and you'll get many more books with the same furniture in it. You can't really do that with Boston, or Newport or Philadelphia baroque or rococo furniture.You're right that I feel I haven't done my due diligence on this subject. What I have written is my understanding as of this morning. You have the last word.Adam

3. 
   dkellernc | Jun 06, 2008 05:54pm | #15

   Adam - Saying that Southern colonial furniture was indistinct from English styles is way, way off the mark.  Discuss this with the docents/curators at MESDA, you'll get an earful, and they have the pieces to back them up.  In fact, MESDA was started based on a similar mis-perception.  I'm paraphrasing here, but Frank L. Horton heard the statement "Nothing of any artistic merit or significance was produced South of the Mason-Dixon line in the Colonies" and decided to challenge it - that was the start of MESDA. 

   In the meantime, search out and read a copy of "The Furniture of Coastal North Carolina" by Bivens.  There are many identified cabinetmakers working in the colonial period in that book whose pieces really bear little resemblance to English pieces, both in external form and ornamentation and internal construction, other than the general type (i.e., a dressing table, desk, tall case clock, etc...).

   And in the case of the many of the Moravian pieces in the MESDA and Old Salem collections, even the form would be unfamiliar to an Englishman of the period.

   The exception is Charleston furniture, which more closely follows Georgian and neo-classical taste.  The books on Charleston furniture are more recent and more available, so they get a lot of press, and some tend to classify Southern furniture based primarily on the examples from that city, but that's a generalization that really isn't applicable.

1. 
   AdamCherubini | Jun 06, 2008 07:02pm | #16

   Yeah, that's on my list of places to go. This is obviously a subject that interests me. Problem is there are so many subjects that interest me!Adam

5. 
   PCM | Jun 05, 2008 03:56am | #9

   Chris,

   Contact Ben Hobbs, http://www.hobbsfurniture.com. He lives on the N. Carolina coast, and is very knowlegeable about Carolina/Southern furniture. He is also the father of Calvin Hobbs.

   Enjoy your research!

   Pete