Hi, never used red cedar before. A friend has some recently downed trees from a nasty ice storm and has offered them to me. Would it be good to use for the walls of raised bed gardens? How does it weather?
They are around 10″ dia on average. About 10 of them. Any ideas or thoughts on red cedar and/or raised bed lumber possibilities is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Replies
Regardless of what you may hear, any non-treated wood in contact with the ground where I live (Florida) will rot within a couple of years. Red cedar does not withstand high humidity and rain very well, but dry areas, like most of California, are much different.
Thanks for the info. I'll take it into account. I'm in northern KY so we get all 4 seasons.
I use 5/4 plastic decking like this:
Jimma,
What are the dimensions and where do you buy them? I like to make mine at least 8 inches deep and can't find any composite type lumber that wide.
Another possibility for raised beds is to use 2x material, such as 2 x 12's. Yes they will rot in time but if you happen to have a traveling sawyer in your area you can usually get them fairly cheaply.
I'm going to make boxes similar to jimmas out of rough cut 2 x 12s and simply butt them together and nail/screw them; might add short sections of rebar to hold them in position. These will go in the greenhouse.
No chemicals to deal with and yeah I'll have to replace them eventually but at little cost overall.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I build raised beds from rough, green 2 x 10s from a local mill. They last about 5 years or so and even then, only partially fall apart. I just butt the corners and nail with 20d galv nails. Two 16 footers make a single 11 x 5 bed. I just replace the pieces as needed.
Nice garden! Do you have to stand guard!?
Is that asparagus (sp?) in front of the fence?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
It is asparagus.
Other than the occasional woodchuck, the short fence keeps most critters out. The deer aren't a problem, I think because we are in the middle of so much open land that they have plenty to feed on without needing to enter the garden. The dogs help also.
Snow is just about gone, so maybe we'll be able to plant some peas this wekend.
Mine are cut from 8 ft pieces and are 2 X 6 when screwed together with deck screws, but they are only 5 1/2 high as that is as wide as the decking is made (as far as I know). I bought the material from a lumber yard that had stored it outdoors and let it get too gnarly for retail sale, so they sold it to me for only $1 per lineal ft. to get rid of it. I also covered the bottom with half-inch hardware cloth as we have terrible mole problems. I'm going to see if I can get some more decking to put on top of one or two of the beds to make them 10 or 11 inches deep. I'll put some aluminum angle on the inside corners to make them stack, and probably a piece or two along the sides to keep them aligned. The material doesn't have a lot of lateral strength. Otherwise this is a good solution for me. I've tried cedar, cypress and even treated pine and they have all (even the PT pine) rotted over time. The constant wetness and, probably, fertilizer have hastened the process. Good luck.
Jimma ,
That is a great solution to the whole problem , I have the molephers also .
Thank you for sharing those ideas .
dusty ,who's thinkin about gardening
Just to prove it works, here's an early harvest of kohlrabi:
Nice & simple. thanks.
Cedar weathers quite well and (white cedar) turns gray after exposure, not sure about red as we have none where I live. It is also often used to line chests and trunks used for storing fabric based products.
However, no wood that I know of will survive constant ground contact, some last better than others. Many local folks use cedar for raised beds knowing that at some point in the future they will need to be replaced.
To give you some idea my father installed (rough cut) white cedar decking around our summer cottage about 30 years ago and most of the boards are in need of replacement. The pressure treated framing that supports the cedar decking is still in fairly good condition. Bear in mind that the pressure treated sits on mostly 3/4" stone, not dirt as would be the case for raised beds.
It is also used quite often for fence posts for livestock but the ends do rot in time.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 4/6/2009 4:44 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 4/6/2009 4:46 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob, thanks for the verification. Pretty much what I was thinking. Also, will be a lot of work moving the logs and trimming on the bandsaw. Sounds fun right now but may be a pain in the end. I'm nervous about treated lumber for raised beds for vegetables. Have seen online comments pro & con. But it tends to be cheaper than some of the other traditional woods for this use.But this helps me in my decision-making. Thanks.Bill
I think I am Human and resistant to moisture.. I think in some Star Trek movie we were called 'Bags of Water"... I HAVE rotted away over the years!
Stay away from treated lumber for any gardening except flowers. The chemicals used to treat the lumber will eventually leach into your soil. Cedar is one of the better choices for raised bed gardening. Keep in mind most raised beds will only last about 5 years.
In an attempt to cut down on weeding I started using raised beds made from western red cedar...the first few I made from 1X10's screwed to 4X4 posts that went about 6 inches into the ground...I think that they are too high and because they are about ten feet long they bowed in the middle...I put bricks in between the beds to further cut down on the weeds,,,should have put hardware cloth under the bricks...the newer beds I made from 1X6's and they work better, only made them 6 feet long..the posts are a couple inches proud of the boards and I put copper caps on them which has spared them from rot,,,was gettting the beds ready for planting this past weekend and noticed that on the first set I made eight years ago the posts are starting to rot and will need replacing but the boards are still in good shape...I live in north central Indiana so the climate is similiar although you are probably Zone 6 whereas I'm dealing with zone 5...also made a compost bin from the cedar (as well as three decks and an asian garden bench, some chaises and a few tables)...they are all weathering the weather pretty well....highly recommend the cedar.
Neil
Neil,
Might try sections of rebar driven into the ground along the sides. You can also string electric fence wire across the beds to hold the tops in place if ye need to.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks Bob, I'll probably try the rebar or something like it...it's really just a cosmetic issue but the garden itself is a French garden so apppearance is important.
On another note, I finally installed my Veritas Twin vise after it sat on the shop floor for nearly a year...wasn't as daunting a project as I had envisioned..wish I had done it sooner..do you have trouble with the one side disconnecting so that the vise no longer works in tandem? I have to periodically take the cover off the left side and tighten those two little screws on the shaft.
Neil
Neil,
Yup I did have a problem with that and it turned out to be the chain - it was slipping on one of the sprockets. Some nylon bushings from the hardware store and installed them with some screws and all is well. Just don't get 'em too long so they interfere with the cover - may have to cut them a bit but not a big deal.
At first I though maybe the shear pin had broke but it was fine.
Also, I dress the screws with Butchers Wax every once in a while and that helps keep them lubricated and doesn't attract a lot of dust.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 4/8/2009 5:03 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
The red heartwood will last for many years in contact with the ground, at least it does when used for fence posts in Alabama. The white sap wood might last through one gardening season. Large cedars that I have seen have only a narrow band of sapwood, so you should get some good useable boards.
Thanks for the response. Appreciate it.
I've used red cedar that have been down and laying in the woods for more than 10 years. There is usually some surface rot on the sap wood but once you get down to the red heartwood they are still as solid as the day they fell. I've used it as fence posts, and milled it with my bandsaw and a sled I built for it to cut the fallen trees into lumber for outdoor lounge chairs and even rail posts for my deck.
If they are wide enough (most of the ones I have access to are little more than 8-9" in diameter) you could use them for raised beds.
If you really want the best to last, see if anyone has locust in your area. Locust lasts 2-3 times longer than cedar. If you go with locust, let someone else saw it for you...it can do a number on saw blades. ;)
Good info to know. Sounds like it could work if I'm willing to put some time into milling some logs. Hopefully my band saw can handle.
I have a 14" Craftsman bandsaw with a "wood slicer" blade in it. It works pretty well (though there are times I wish the clearance on it was more than the 8.5" resaw). I use a sled to cut make the first two rips at right angles to each other, from there the fence can be used to make the rest.--- Timber Framing Hobbyist and still have all my fingers.
Thanks. I'm in KY and earlier in Jan we had a monster ice storm that took down an unbelievable amount of trees. Wood has been all over the place for the taking. Needless to say I have been getting a pretty quick education in bandsawing lumber. I have a 16" Jet but when I see some of the available FREE wood out there, I wish I had a larger clearance.
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