reccomendation for cross cut & rip blade
bones
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I am getting back into woodworking after 5 years of having my tools packed away. I am curious for thoughs from this group on the subject of a good blade for ripping and cross cut. I have a sears radial arm and a shopsmith mark v model 510. I am looking at the Forest woodworder II. I am in a much better position finanically so I can afford a good blade.
Replies
I have the Woodworker @ and I love it. Own maybe a dozen blades of all different brands and the Forest is by the far the best. Some do come close but not close enough.
Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website
"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."
Thanks for the input do you use the same for cc and rip?
Yes I do. My chop saw is 1300 Kms away from me at the moment and the radila arm died a week ago. use the tables saw for just about everything. I never change the blade as the cut is good either way.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."
What tooth count do you reccomend?
40 is for 2" and under and the 30 tooth is for over 2". I have the 40 as I almost never rip anything over 1" anyway.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."
Thanks for the input.
bones
I'm of the "old school" that makes blade changes for the appropriate cut. I run a 24 flat tooth for ripping on the TS and a 60 tooth for cross-cutting on my SCMS up to 12" wide stock and a 60 tooth cross-cutting larger stock and panels on the TS.
If you want a "one size fits all" blade, the Forrest is probably the ticket. I have just personally never believed one size fits all. Can a 40 or 50 tooth combo rip and cross-cut? Yeah, but IMO not as effeciently as a 24 with deep gullets for waste removal on the rip end and 60 teeth for smaller bites on the CC end. The numbers just don't balance.
Confused yet? If so, wait till you get the testimonials from the Forrest users. :>) My suggestion to eliminate confusion is to try a combo and then use the appropriate 24 and 60 and make the call from the results you physically compare. Any other way is viewing with only "one eye open".
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Sarge if I had my way I would have two table saws one with rip blade and the other with a cross cut blade. But I am lazy and laziness is no good unless well kept.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."
Scott
Ha.. ha.... I got lazy and found a Hitachi SCMS on clearance from Lowe's for $239 when they introduced lazers. It's so accurate I do most of the CC on it. The only time I switch to a 60 on the TS is when I'm down-sizing wide stuff the SCMS won't handle. Otherwise the 24 is "ready to rip".
Got to go buy a used truck. Just can't decide if it should be Forest or Freud. he.......
Have a good week-end...
sarge..jt Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I gave my dad my SCMS before I went away for training. He wanted it so he could have one in the shop and one in the house that was under reno. When he came to visit me out west the guys that he had working on the house threw a bunch of 2 x 4's in the house and smashed the sh!t out of the handles and most of the casing. The other saw suffered much the same fate when then were looking for something on the workbench when they knock over a dozen sheets of 3/4" plywood down and it fell over onto the saw table breaking the swivel lock off so how the saw cannot be locked at any angle. Dad got a new one but I have yet to get around to getting one as I have the table saw and had the radial arm until the motor quit.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."
Scott
Are the motors expensive in Canada? And have you pulled it off and checked to see if an electric shop can rebuild without it costing more than new?
Curious also on what type of SCMS you gave your dad. I have the Hitachi national service center about 8 miles from my home here in metro Atlanta and there is not a part they don't usually have in stock. Just a thought unless it is an older dis-continued slider.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
It is a old Delta model one of there first. The thing is not worth repairing any more. I had the armature replaced already and it never worked right after that. I haven't had the time to pull the motor out of my RAS yet but I have a few other things to test before I do that though. The motor has already been rebuilt once in it so I don't know if there is much point in a second trip to the doctor.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."
Scott
I would at least pull the brushes out and check them. Just like when your turn signal quits blinking. I have seen folks pay $60 pro-rate and hour to tell a dealership to fix them. The first thing the mechanic does is check the bulb which is the cause 90% as opposed to the actual switch.
I have an old 28 yr. old 1/2" Craftsman drill. Up and died about a year ago. Checked and changed the brushes and it's still "making dust" instead of "biting dust". ha..ha....
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Sarge,
I've got a Woodworker II blade and love it ... but I've moved on and now use a dedicated rip blade and another blade for crosscutting. I get better results, and the blade change time isn't much.
I still use the Forrest, but not as much. But if someone wants a "one size fits all blade", this is it.
By the way, my rip and crosscut blades are Freud ones, and the results are simply amazing.
John
john
I also use the Freuds in the appropriate teeth count as I feel I get better over-all results at a cheaper price. I have never owned a Forrest because of price, but I have used a friends to see what all the "fuss" was about. Yes, it's a great blade, but FS, Amana, Freud, etc. are not that many rungs back down the ladder.
If you do mostly ripping with a minimal of cross-cut and you are not concious of the smooth-ness of the cut, Howie had a good suggestion with a Forrest 30 tooth. It would be the best choice IMO if you won't take the time to change blades or cannot afford two ( the two are about the same price as one Forrest in reality). A respectable way to go.
This has all been argued many times here as you know. I as you will continue to use the appropriate blade count. Everyone can use what they like. I merely am making a point of trying both ways and then decide. Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, sometimes it's not. You just don't really know till you have a look for yourself.
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
If you contact Forrest, they will recommend the 40 tooth for crosscutting all thicknesses and ripping up to 1" in hardwoods like Cherry and Maple. For ripping 1- 1 1/2" they recommend their 30 tooth blade and for over 1 1/2" they recommend their 20 tooth.
If you want one blade and plan to frequently rip over 1", get their 30 tooth blade. There is virtually no loss in crosscut quality with their 30 tooth blade.
I had been running the WWII on my cabinet saw for some time while ripping some 8/4 ash about 10' long. It did OK but I got in a hurry one day cutting some used lumber and,... you guessed it, hit a small nail. So sent it off to be sharpened since the cut quality was dramatically reduced. In the meantime I bought a thin kerf Freud 40 tooth combi blade. What a difference. Not in the quality of the cut but just lightening up of the load on the machine. That wide kerf on the WWII uses up lots of HP. Not to mention the loss of material from the kerf.
None the less, I have to side with the Forrest devotees: you go right from the saw table to the glue bench with that puppy!
Just picked up a 30 tooth flat grind rip blade from Systematic but haven't gotten around to trying it out yet. Hey Jamie!! Eastside Saw is cleaning out their inventory of Systematic blades. $30 bux for rip blade I bought.
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
DENNIS
"I bough a thin-kerf.... What a difference".
And I thought I'd never see the day! I need to call the Skagit Co. Sheriff's Dept. and have them keep an eye on you. No telling what you might do next as evidenced by this incident. he.. he...
Regards from the S.E. corner of the U.S.A.
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Although my preference is for different blades for different purposes, you really can't go wrong basing your "blade stable" on a FWW-II blade. You could go ahead an get 1 (or 2, for different thicknesses, if needed) and later on down the road, if you find you need a dedicated rip blade for some especially thick and/or hard stock, it's no big deal to buy one -- they're not that expensive. If you need a knock-'em-dead cross-cut blade that leaves a shiney, burnished surface on the cut, you could pick up the Freud Ultimate cross-cut blade. You might need to add a laminate/melamine blade or blade for fine, thin plywood.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I just purchased a Freud TK906 combination blade at Lowes for about $35 & am just amazed it give excellent rips & cross cuts smooth as glass.
As I understand it it is preferable to send your Woodworker blades back to Forrest to get the sharpened. This plus the cost are the 2 reasons I haven't purchased a Forrest blade yet. If I was in business I probably would purchase 2 of their blades for the table-saw & 2 for the Radial & CMS saw so I could send one in to be sharpened & have one on the saw. But for a hobby I think this is a little overboard.
I can buy several Freud blades & have them sharpened several times & still buy something else for the shop for the price of 1 or 2 Forrest blades & the wait & hassle of getting them sharpened. Gees guys how did anything ever get cut before Forrest?
I have seen more actual commercial work done before all the fancy high dollar tooling came along that people think they just have to get to do hobby work it just amazes me. I know some of you are in business & understand the time savings in excellent tooling & don't begrudge it one bit. BUT for the hobbyist I would think having a selection of different tools & clamps that would allow being able to make different things with out having to struggle along because you spent top dollar for one item to the exclusion of the others.
I used a Forrest blade as a hobbyist and also tried a Freud blade, I was much more satisfied with the cut the Forrest gave me, and I'm using the first Forrest blade I bought over 10 years ago yet. ( with a few teeth replaced) The first Forrest blade was used for 4 years before the first sharpening and I haven't always sent it back to Forrest for sharpening or retoothing. I've always used hardwoods, mostly red oak and some hard maple. The Forrest gives the smoothest cut , for less sanding later. I just bought my second Forrest WWII last fall , before the Christmas orders started.
I'm now in business custom building furniture , Grand Rapids,MI
To each his own, let the individual decide for them selves.
Make saw dust have fun.Sucking.......Whoosh.......Yowl........Whoosh.........Thrump.
I have the Woodworker II and love it. But I don't us it in my Radial Arm Saw. The Woodworker I is designed for Radial Arm Saws - has a slightly different tooth angle so it doesn't grab as agressively. (I have a non-Woodworker table saw blade that I have used in my RAS, and the extra amount the RAS tries to jump forward is scary.)
________________________
Charlie Plesums Austin, Texas
http://www.plesums.com/wood
I'm about to tackle my first project using cherry.
I'm making a large L shaped desk top for my computer.
It will be 92" long with a 48" wing at one end.
I do not have a jointer but do have a Stanley #7 plane.
I'm going to use 4/4 cherry S3S and was hoping to be able to rip it glue ready on my table saw. Right now it has a 60T Freud blade with a few miles on it. I just read the FW article on working with cherry and know that I need to be careful. I have burned some red oak ripping with my 60T Freud.
I'm thinking of going into HD and gettine a new 24T rip blade.
Any recommendations for a rip blade that I can buy at HD?
Thanks,
Bill
I have been using the Woodworker II exclusively on the table saw, and getting glue-ready joints if I am careful. Even ripping the 8/4 cherry for the legs of the Cherry seat/storage box I am building now. Practically no burning (although I have to be very careful, and the saw is VERY carefully aligned...) In fact I have had more burning on the radial arm saw with a 40 tooth cross-cut blade. (Still not a lot of burning, but more than with the ripping). And as you know, cherry burns far more easily than oak.
I don't have a modern rip blade at all. (My rip blade pre-dates carbide - remember those days?). Clearly that blade will never see good wood. The discussion I hear is pretty positive about the moderate price Freud rip blades, so I would probably pick one up if I started to feel the need for a separate rip blade. But basically I am lazy and don't often change blades...
Sorry I am not more help.________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
The 24-tooth Freud blade (Diablo line) carried at HD isn't going to give you what people call a "glueline rip" surface. In this area, neither HD nor Lowe's carries the new Glue Line Rip blade made by Freud, and from past experience, I doubt they will.
The 24-tooth blade will, however, rip the cherry nicely such that planing should prep it well for gluing. If you'd rather get the glue-line blade (LM74R), I see it here for $59:http://www.woodworkersshop.com/Freud_Glue_Line_Rip.htmforestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks, Jamie
I'll check Woodcraft in Newington this weekend if we go up to Portland for a hockey game. The Freud Glue Line Rip sounds like what I should have.
How are you making out with your bandsaw? As I recall you were going to make some trees into boards. I sawed up 3 more cherry logs this past weekend but I think that the Timberwolf 3/4" 2 TPI is getting dull after resawing 6-8 logs. Is that possible so soon?
Good article on bandsaw blades in the new FW.
I made a wooden tension crank that friction fits over the handwheel out of a piece of 2x6 and a dowel. Works great!
Bill
Hi Bill, glad your sawing is going well. Don't know about the dulling of the blade -- how long were the logs again? and how many boards out of each? Have you been lubricating the blade?????? That will really extend the life, especially with a wood like cherry I suspect.
Can you provide some details about the handle? Would love to make one myself.
The maple log is still in its resting place, hopefully not spalting away.... I've been working on this shop improvement project (see The Cafe), partly because unless I get that done and free up some space, there won't be anywhere to put the maple once it's cut, LOL. I was going to stack it on the back-side of one of the walls, outside but sheltered, but I've learned from the little bit cut up earlier that won't work. It's got to be in a drier environment than that, or it'll get surface mold and the spalting won't stop.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Jamie,
I thought about replying offline, but some others may benefit from the description of the tension crank.
Good question about lubing the saw. I forgot for the first few boards. then I started lubing the blade with veggy oil. I cut 3 30" logs ( 8-9" diameter) into four 1.25" thick boards. It seemed to dull up on those first few boards without lube.
After looking at my bandsaw, I thought it would be hard to get the rod for a new tension crank in, since it is pretty near the ceiling and making one would give me instant crank; I have tendinitis in my hands so I didn't want to try and crank the spring almost fully compression without a crank.
I took a piece of 2x6 about 8" long and held one end of it over the knob and did my best to pencil the knob profile onto the board. Then I got out a drafting compass and made circles for the smallest part of the knob (wher the dimples go in) and another circle 3/8" outside the widest points of the knob. I then marked a spot about 5" away and marked a 1" circle for the handle. Connect tangents of the knob outer circle and the handle circle.
THrow it on the drill press with 1" and then 1/4" forstner bits to hog out the wood to the outline of the knob is to a depth of 3/4". Clean it up with a 1/4" chisel. Try it on the bandsaw wheel for a good tight fit.
Then I sliced it down to about 1" thickness on the bandsaw and cut out the profile on the bandsaw. Drill a screw hole for the crank and screw on a 4" long 3/4" dowel for a crank with a 3" sheet rock screw. Voila! instant crank.
Don't know how long it will stay agood fit, but it works so much more easily now.
Sorry for the long post, but it's a lot shorter than the 2.5 hour lecture I gave tonight at the local technical college.
Bill
Hi Jamie,
I picked up a CMT thin kerf 40T blade today to rip the cherry for the table top.
I was going to buy the CMT 24T rip blade, but one of the "older" salesman said I would be better off with the 40T general purpose blade - much smoother cut. He said that the 40T blade is all he uses for 90% of his sawing.
I think I will reserve this blade for high quality stuff.
I'm not sure what a "glue ready looks like. I may take a thin bass with the Stanley #7 anyway after ripping it.
Later,
Bill
That blade sounds like a good bet. Let us know how it works out! And.....don't forget to show-and-tell when the table's done <g>.
PS: Thanks for putting "older" in quotes. He's probably about my age, ROFL!!!!forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forrest Woodworker II for the following reasons:
It really is a good compromise blade.
They do a great job of flattening, sharpening, replacing damaged teeth, etc. Far better that the local services in my area.
They made a great product and they support it.
Well using my Freud TK906 I can go straight from the table-saw to glue up skipping the jointer. It looks almost like it has been scraped or sanded. Nice flat clean cuts. On a Craftsman Contractor saw.
If I remember right doesn't your Shopsmith have an arbor thats bigger than 5/8"? I know you can get a 5/8" arbor for it. I have a friend that has one that he uses as a lathe & I just asked him about this.
Thats right I had to buy an 5/8 arbor so I could use standard blades. Thanks for the input.
Bones,
For the ultimate cross cut get the "Freud, ultimate cross cut" blade. I'm a hobbiest but mine is ten years old, never been sharpened and still gives an incredible, polished cut that needs nothing prior to application of finish.
Ripping is another story. I have two saws, both under two HP. I always joint or handplane after ripping. For fast, consistent rips (not glue edge) I use the 10 tooth "Systimatic". It gives an edge that cleans up with one light pass on the jointer and does the job quickly. For a glue edge rip I have the Freud 24 tooth, thin kerf blade.
That's my tcw! Enjoy!
Mack
Edited 2/16/2004 8:22:51 PM ET by Mack
There are some good recommendations for blades on this thread. But I didn't see much on the dedicated side of the fence(ha!) For baltic birch and classic core oak ply, I use either the thin kerf Freud 40 or 50 tooth. These are kept clean and sharpened by a very good local service. With a zero clearance table insert, there is no splintering, and just fine dust kicked up. (You got to have a tuned saw; poly drive belt and fence).
If you expect to do heavy rips in 8/4 oak, cherry or maple, get the new Freud 1/8" 30 tooth Glue LIne Rip blade. Solid performer, great feed rates and the cut (again on a tuned saw) is really a glue line. Glued and clamped, the line disappears!! About 49.00 here at the local tool supplier; haven't seen it at Lowes.
duster
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