Replies

1. 
   oldusty | Mar 22, 2008 06:24am | #1

   Hi carpenter ,

                It really depends on how wide your panels are , the movement across the grain is the direction to be concerned .

        If your doors happened to be much wider than normal you may want to add a center stile and make 2 panels so each panel only will move half as much as one wider one may .

        Most grooves on stile and rails for cabinet doors are about a 1/2" deep , for the average stable wood I make my panels about an 1/8" narrower than the opening .This allows expansion and contraction as the wood WILL move .

               regards         dusty

2. 
   hammer1 | Mar 22, 2008 06:33pm | #2

   The solid wood panels will move with seasonal changes. With a sawn raised edge you have a wedge. As the panel shrinks in the winter, it can get loose, when they swell in the humid conditions they can jam in the groove. Not all wood species move the same, red oak may move more than maple, for example. The depth of the groove won't matter if the wedge jams and can't move within it. The wider the panel, the more it may move. It becomes a matter of striking a balance based on the species and size of the panels.

   With a 1/2" groove, I would want to be in about 5/16" on each side. Rather than raising on one face and creating a steeper wedge, I'd rabbet or raise the back of the panel also. I think you are more likely to see shrinkage than extreme swelling. By staining and sealing the panel before assembling, particularly the end grain, you may mitigate moisture effects. I would try to allow the panel to swell about 3/16" total, given an average size of 12" +-. Smaller panels will move less. You should be OK if the panel can swell in the groove a strong 1/16" each side without jamming too tightly.

   This is all an estimate, assuming you are using cabinet grade lumber that has been kiln dried. It's probably pretty safe for most average size panels, panels above 20" may need a little more room. It's difficult to know the current moisture content and what conditions the work may be exposed to. 3/16" allowance either way should keep you covered in all but extreme situations. Many panels don't move that much.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
1. 
   carpenter5 | Mar 25, 2008 06:21am | #3

   Thank you very much for that info, much appreciated. I debated waiting for assembly until after the staining, but I already sanded and assembled. My panels are 7.5" x 18.5" that fit into a 1/4" inch groove 1/2"deep (2"styles rails) so I think wood movement overall will be minimal at best and my species is alder. I think I am in good shape going by your specs.

   In fact the doors are hung on my cabinet and look very nice. However... when I cut my panels on my jig, at the last second I thought to move the fence a 1/16" which now results in my panels being a little sloppy, ie; they move freely within the frame. I thought I would slip a little piece of veneer in the back here and there to control that movement.  What do you think?

   Regards,

   Carpenter5 

1. 
   Tinkerer3 | Mar 25, 2008 06:58am | #4

   Just finishing my shop and never tried to make a panel door yet, who am I to give advice?  Cabinet makers, help.  From reading I think some makers use a little elastic ball or piece of silicon caulk here and there in the groove to hold the panel firmly when the humidity is low which then compresses when humidity is high and the panel is expanded.  I also would think that a straight wedge in the groove would be harder to maintain a fit in variable weather than a shaped edge that would be more parallel on the edges.  Can't wait till I make my first projects in the new shop.  If you don't prefinish the panels before gluing them in the frame, when the panel contracts, it will show the unfinished part of the edge that had been previously covered.

   Edited 3/25/2008 12:01 am ET by Tinkerer3

2. 
   hammer1 | Mar 27, 2008 06:31am | #5

   Hi Carpenter, I've been out of town a few days. It's common to anchor the panel somewhere in the middle, this keeps it centered and allows it to move equally on each side. A small brad or two may be a better choice than gluing veneer. The glue may not hold over the long term and it may restrict panel movement more than a pin, it may cause stain issues if you are using it. Panels should be free to move. Sometimes, that makes them loose enough to rattle. A pin in the center, top and bottom, will stop it. They will even help with flush plywood panels that are too thin for the groove.On your next raised panel job, there are 1/4" soft rubber balls called "space balls". These are intended to be placed in the groove. On the sides, they compress and expand with the panel movement. When you make a panel a little smaller in width, the corners of the raised panel don't always line up with the corners of the frame. If you make the panel a little shorter, it compensates for the minor movement of the frame rails. You can then use space balls to lift it enough so the corners align. There all all kinds of choices instead of space balls, vinyl tubing, cut up foam rubber, sponge, etc. They should be semi firm. You only need two on each side and bottom, in an inch or so from the corners. I used some weather strip in the picture. Staining the panels before assembly helps so the shrinkage won't show bare wood. Sealing them keeps them clean while you work. When it comes time to finish the rest, you have to be careful not to get more stain on the panels. Even with a seal coat, it could be effected. With ones that are assembled raw, just try not to build up any finish where the panel meets the frame. You will be able to touch up the raw exposed wood, later, and not have a highly visible line of finish. I don't think you will have much to worry about with 7" wide panels.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

   
1. 
   carpenter5 | Apr 04, 2008 04:41am | #6

   A great big thanks to you,

   Regards,

   carpenter5