Replies

1. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Mar 05, 2002 07:01pm | #1

   *
   Chris,

   i I notice sometimes when I'm ripping that the piece seems to want to slowly walk away from the fence (further into the blade) as I push through.

   Sounds to me like you aren't using your splitter and guard. A feather board and rip blade would also be recommended. Is the saw in perfect alignment? FWIW.

   Dano

1. 
   Rocky_Rothrock | Mar 05, 2002 07:08pm | #2

   *Chris,Sounds like maybe part of your problem is with your table saw setup. You might want to check your alignments-blade, fence as well as your feeding technique. In keeping the edges tight, I have had great succcess using wide packing tape. Run the tape the length of one piece,along the edge with half the tape exposed, then butt the edge of the opposing piece to it and lay the piece down on the tape. The tape will act as a "clamp" to hold the edges together as you fold them together and glue them up. If you use clear tape, you can see if you are going to have edge problems. I don't think I'm explaining this very well, but there is an article in FWW about 7 issues ago where the author illustrated the same techinque. If you want, I will look it up and get back with you tonight.Hope this helps and have fun.Rocky

1. 
   a_jepson | Mar 05, 2002 07:23pm | #3

   *make sure that your saw is tuned up and that all your stock is flat and straight. either the fence is out of alignment, or your wood has warped a little and isn't tight against the fence. you also might want to try ripping the miters a little oversize and the taking a light final pass to get them perfect. hope this helps

1. 
   Chris_Campbell | Mar 05, 2002 07:23pm | #4

   *Rocky - The tape thing would be great - in fact that's what my plans call for. I've done that before with success. The problem this time is that my edges don't always line up nicely because of the cut. They have a very slight arc. I was trying to force the edges together by clamping. I know this isn't good, but I have a bunch of time invested in the cutting and QS oak isn't cheap! :)My fence is parallel with the table, and my cuts are square, so as far as I know the blade is okay. I am a little worried about the angle changing thing. Could something be wrong with the mechanism?

1. 
   Steve_Schefer | Mar 05, 2002 07:25pm | #5

   *Chris, there are numerous threads on saw alignment on this site. If you are using your splitter, make sure it is in perfect alignment also. Technique is certainly a factor. As Dano say's use a feather board and don't try to use the push stick to force the board against the fence. If you can, use a wider pusher and push straight through. Also, let the feather board just lightly hold the wood against the fence, don't try to use it as a clamp.SteveSteve

2. 
   Alan_W._Mikkelsen | Mar 05, 2002 07:26pm | #6

   *It sounds to me like you need a table saw tuneup. Might want to start by checking your fence/blade alignment, then checking to see if you have some slop and play in your trunion, allowing the blade angle to change.

3. 
   Chris_Campbell | Mar 05, 2002 07:37pm | #7

   *Steve - "As Dano say's use a feather board and don't try to use the push stick to force the board against the fence. If you can, use a wider pusher and push straight through."This is something I've wondered about for a long time. Sometimes the board sticks right to the fence and sometimes it wanders away. My tendency is always to try and keep it against the fence. Is this wrong?

4. 
   Steve_Schefer | Mar 05, 2002 08:23pm | #8

   *Chris, Its been my experience that even straight forward pressure is best when you combine the pusher with a feather board. The feather board should be all you need to hold the board against the fence provided your saw is properly aligned. If you are working at trying to hold the board down on the table then try an additional fence mounted feather board. The key to success for me has been to never use excessive force in any direction. Just exert enough to produce a smooth even feed rate. It takes some practice and different woods will feed differently but you get the hang of it after while.Steve

5. 
   Getch_ | Mar 05, 2002 08:51pm | #9

   *Hi Chris,Just a thought on getting back to the Qtrsawn legs. Another option I had great success with is veneering the 2 sides that dont show the great ray flake of QS.Simply glue an 1/8 inch thick slick of QS to those 2 sides, route flush or radius roundover and it is virtually unnoticable.

6. 
   ben_malamed | Mar 05, 2002 08:52pm | #10

   *This is slightly off-topic, but you can get the quarter sawn look without having to glue up four pieces of wood. On a flatsawn plank the edges will most likely have grain running at about a 45 degree angle to the surface. Use this portion for the leg and you will get similar looking grain patterns on all four sides.

7. 
   Alex_Higgins | Mar 05, 2002 09:17pm | #11

   *I don't know if it's too late to re-machine the leg blanks, but you could use a lock-miter router bit to cut mating cuts in each blank. That's how Stickley makes all their built-up posts now. This joint pulls the whole thing together and gives a lot of glue area. There was an article on this technique in FWW not long ago. I think they call it "quadralinear post" construction. (Check out Stickley's website for diagrams of this) You might end up losing some dimension on the stock, but the router operation should straighten out the edge. Alternately, you could get back to a straight edge by running the blanks on your jointer. You would lose a minimum of dimension that way. Good luck. You will prevail!

8. 
   Robert_Phillips | Mar 05, 2002 09:56pm | #12

   *I've used bungie cords to hold the sides togetherin the glue up stage. I wrap them in a spiral fromtop to bottom and use a brad to hold them to the top and bottom of the leg.I've also had this problem with the table saw beforeand it turned out to be a hit or miss thing. I solvedthis problem by buying a lock miter bit and runningthe leg sides thru. This may not be a way to go because of the expense factor, but I make a lot of Mission style furniture. The bit and two fixtures is the way to make these type of legs.Robert

9. 
   Norm_in_Fujino | Mar 06, 2002 01:16am | #13

   *I've only done quadrinlinear posts on one project, but had no problems cutting or gluing up; takes a lot of clamps (and rubber bands), but results were fine. Sounds like tilt/lift mechanism may need a check. Other than that, appropriate use of featherboards and push shoes worked well in my case.View ImageView Image

10. 
    Scott_Braun | Mar 06, 2002 08:23am | #14

    *ben, the suggestion you present would produce a leg with rift sawn faces all around. nice straight grain, yes, but no flakes or figure. it must be quartered to show the flake.your technique is extremely useful in other applications, but here it wouldn't give the desired result, I'm afraid...SB

11. 
    Smaug | Mar 06, 2002 04:19pm | #15

    *There might be a more obvious problem. Did you joint the boards before running them through the tablesaw? The edge that goes against the fence should be perfectly flat. If it's even slightly concave, and that side is against the fence, it will tend to curve into the side of the blade. This is a kickback waiting to happen.If you bought S4S lumber and brought it home, did you let it shop dry before machining it? If the humidity is different at your place than your lumber source, that difference will cause the wood to warp. Quartersawn stock will tend to warp in the direction you mention, curving the whole piece longitudally, rather than the other direction, like flatsawn. Lastly, what kind of tablesaw do you have? This may not be important, but when I had a benchtop tablesaw, I had nothing but problems trying to get/keep it aligned properly. The fence would not stay parallel. (mine was the 10" Makita) If your fence and blade aren't parallel, you're always going to have problems. Take care.

12. 
    Chris_Campbell | Mar 06, 2002 05:13pm | #16

    *I don't own a jointer, but I don't remember the stock being warped either.My TS is a Craftsman.I like the idea of laminating the boards and then veneering the end grain. Maybe next time I'll try that technique - or maybe still this time if I can't get these things glued up nicely! :) I hate to waste the wood, but I don't want the quality of the entire piece to be sacrificed to the leg screw up, if you know what I mean. I kind of a perfectionist, and something little like the edges not being perfect would eat at me.One other thought I had was to go ahead with the glue up, then trim off a tiny bit of all four edges at a 45, then glue a small chunk back on and trim flush. At least then I can salvage what I have. Thoughts?

13. 
    Bob_Lang | Mar 06, 2002 08:45pm | #17

    *Having all the parts perfectly straight before milling the joints is the key to doing this successfully. Any deviation from straight and square, either in the saw alignment or in the part shows at the corner.Laminating and then veneering was used by Gustav Stickley, but many of these veneered faces eventually crack at the glue line of the lamination below since the quarter sawn wood moves more in thickness than in width.Bob Langhttp://www.craftsmanplans.com

14. 
    wedgehead | Mar 07, 2002 05:03pm | #18

    *I had the same sort of problems you are with some legs for a mission piece. I finally figured out that some of my stock was slightly crowned, causing it to move up the blade slightly as I ripped it. If it's off the table 1/16", the piece is 1/8" wider at some point by the time you rip both sides. A small tapered block, in effect a solid featherboard, clamped to the fence to keep the stock tight to the table did the trick. After that a couple passes with a #7 stanley and all was well. All I needed for clamps was a piece of masking tape about every 3-4 inches.

15. 
    WmPhelps | Mar 07, 2002 06:34pm | #19

    *Hunch im having with the drift. Are you using a thin kerf Blade? Im thinking the blade isnt as sharp as it could be and the grain is causing the blade to drift slightly. The blade is wanting to travel at the path of least resistance and since its QS youre plade might be wanting to drift in the springwood as opposed to the late wood.Thin kerf to me would be more prone to flex, exagerating the drift. Blades should be wicked sharp. my hunch is a Dull thin kerf would drift and possibly pull the board away and in some cases toward the fence, which you wouldnt notice.Burn marks might be indicators of poor feed and/or dull bladeI could be wrong about this, wouldnt be the first time.But feather boards and sharp blade woudl be the next step after alignment in the fence and the blade.

16. 
    TroyLarsen | Mar 07, 2002 09:16pm | #20

    *I had the same problem with my craftsman saw (christmas present, I would never have wasted money on this). I went through the alignment process with a veneer caliper, making sure everything was within .005". This made little change in my case, but it is the first thing to do. What helped enormously in my case was to replace the blade. The new blade was a $40 Freud, but it made a BIG difference.

17. 
    mark_w.davis | Mar 12, 2002 03:11am | #21

    *Hi Chris, Ive glued up lots of posts, 4 sided, six, eight, twelve, I've found band clamps to be the best mechanism for applying equal presssure at all the joints. When i first started doing these things I had the same trouble. On some of the early ones, I made an properly sized plywood sled with a couple of hold downs on it to secure the work to the sled, then run the whole thing thru, flip it around and do the other side. It is my suspicion that the wood is slightly bowed, and not holding it down tight to the table will result in the bowed bevel along it's length. I've also had great success with simple rabbets. If you leave just about 1/8 inch shoulders,on two sides, the glue line virtually disappears because it is so close to the edge, especially if you put a routed edge on it. It clamps up real nice, real square. This eliminates any need for beveling.I would stay away from the lock miter joint, it's very scary to do in one pass. Good luck.