Replies

1. 
   imcanadian | Jun 28, 2004 02:01pm | #1

   1. No. Lots of tearout if not fed very slowly.

   2. Stains and finishes fairly well and evenly.

   3. Yes.

   4. Yes

2. 
   CharlieP | Jun 28, 2004 06:06pm | #2

   I have built a couple kitchens of cabinets with birch face frames and birch plywood.  I had no problems with the finish, just stain brushed on and rubbed off, no sealer, covered with poly or varnish.  I second the tear out issue, and concur with strength/stability. 

   However, I recently did a small project with the leftover birch (years later) and had the uneven stain problem sometimes experienced with maple.  So I am not as willing to give the finishing a good vote. 

   The low cost birch plywood from the big boxes is often pretty low grade compared to regular furniture plywood.... Basically a paint-grade wood. 

   ________________________
   Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texas
   http://www.plesums.com/wood

3. 
   MarkRoderick | Jun 28, 2004 08:50pm | #3

   I've only built one thing from solid birch, a little jewelry box that came out very nice. But the tearout was very bad so I ended up sanding much more than I wanted to. I remember at the time posting in Knots saying "Does everyone have the same problems with birch that I'm having?" or something like that. The answer was yes, as I recall.

4. 
   billsams | Jun 29, 2004 02:05am | #4

   Mike,

   I have used a fair amount of red birch vs yellow birch. Red is becoming harder to come by in my area (VA), yellow is more prevelant. Birch does have cross grain tendencies and difficult to hand plane, but does machine well with sharp knives. Yellow birch in my opinion has more tendency to "move", less stable than the red. In the bins when purchasing the lumber in the "yellow" bin was slightly more twisted than the red bins. It finishes quite nicely.

   Here's a link to my website for a birch dressmakers table.

   http://www.jwsjoinery.com/jws/dressmakertable.htm

   Here's another link for general info of birch

   http://www.iswonline.com/wwp/wom/europeanbirch.shtml

   Have you considered alder?

   Good luck ( this was my second post, I lost my first one)

   Bill

1. 
   jonsherryl | Jun 29, 2004 04:43am | #5

   Bill, the grading system for birch (and also maple) places a premium of blond color...so, it is the sapwood of these two species that is generally used in commercial cabinetry. Red birch is cut from the heartwood of the log, often the portion that is left after the log has been peeled for the sapwood veneer, which is used for plywood...You're right in noticing a difference in stability. Heartwood generally is more stable than sapwood.

   Personally...at least for furniture projects...I think red birch is prettier material to work with...especially if it happens to be flame grained stock cut from sweet birch; Betula lenta. It looks almost like satinwood, except for its slightly darker and more cherry-like color. Absolutely gorgeous!

   Edited 6/28/2004 9:45 pm ET by Jon Arno

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jun 29, 2004 05:38am | #6

   Here in MN, birch is commonly and inexpensively available as plywood or solid lumber.

   But by discussing red and yellow birch, you make me wonder what it is I am buying. The typical plywood sheet will have reddish flames in the veneer (often in very attractive patterns); but you can also buy what the yards here call "Uniform Lite" -- which is a consistent creamy color. However, I have never seen sheets that are consistently reddish in color.

   Can you get me straightened out here?

1. 
   jonsherryl | Jun 29, 2004 03:50pm | #9

   Nikkiwood, the face veneers on cabinet grade birch plywood are most often either yellow birch or sweet birch (both are considered to be "hard" birches, as opposed to the "soft" birches, such as paper birch or the Eurpean white birch) and they are virtually always peeled from the outer sapwood portion of the log. This is because birch is usually used when a blond look is desired.

   These face veneers can be further selected on the basis of color, with the most uniformly blond sheets being the most desirable. Both yellow birch and sweet birch often develop some yellow-tan highlights as the sapwood transitions to heartwood, but yellow birch tends to produce heartwood with a more grayish hue...while sweet birch typically has a darker and warmer (more orange) heartwood.

   Paper birch is seldom used for face veneer on quality plywood in that it tends to have a very bland figure and is somewhat coarser textured...And the problem with the more southern river birch; Betula nigra, is that it usually produces a multitude of little pin knots, which makes it a poor species for veneer. The European white birch; Betula pendula, IS a major plywood species, but it is usually manufactured using very thin core veneers to give it greater stability for use as a secondary wood in applications such as drawer sides and interior panels. It's typically marketed as Baltic birch, because most of it is shipped from that region (Scandinavia, Finland and Russia).

2. 
   aakBoston | Jun 29, 2004 05:38am | #7

   I've never seen birch hardwood in my travels as a wood butcher.  Granted it's only been a few years but is it a common hardwood?

1. 
   sawdustmaker | Jun 29, 2004 06:07am | #8

   Thanks for everyone's replies. Birch seems to fit the bill for the project I am doing, as far as matching the existing piece. I know a fellow woodworker who has some nice birch veneered ply. My local hardwood supplier is making me a deal on some 4/4 birch ($1.35 / bft kiln dried). Since I have not worked with birch, I would like to work with it for the experience. It's nice to know what I'm "up against". Thanks again.

2. 
   jonsherryl | Jun 29, 2004 11:05pm | #10

   aak, birch solid stock is readily available. A lot of it is used by commercial cabinet shops and interior finish carpenters. This market usually demands that it be light colored material...either all sapwood or "Sap One Face", so it will better match the light birch plywood veneers when it is used for the rails and stiles of cabinets.

   Red birch is also available, usually as a less costly option, but it isn't always stocked by outlets catering to the commercial construction crowd. It's more highly regarded amount custom furniture makers who appreciate it's richer color and more interesting figure. I've never seen red birch in plywood form. Because it is cut from the center heartwood of the log, which tends to be more knotty and less useable for face grade veneers, if available, it would doubtlessly be more expensive and/or more prone to unavoidable defects in a 4' X 8' size.

   Birch heartwood veneer, especially the flame grain material cut from sweet birch, was a popular substitute for satinwood among early 19th century American cabinetmakers...where it was used in small pieces for edging and accent panels in Federal style furniture. Unfortunately, it seemed to have fallen off the radar screen for most of the 20th century...and it has only been in the last decade or so that this heartwood "red" birch has resurfaced as a respectable choice for furniture making. It's slow return to popularity probably results from the fact that the veneer industry was developing an abundance of it as a byproduct and was willing to sell it off cheap.

   Personally, I think it's one of the better buys among our domestic diffuse-porous (fine textured) hardwoods these days...Especially now that the price of cherry has become downright astronomical. Red birch is not the perfect counterfeit for cherry, but its texture, figure and color makes it a reasonable option when building furniture in the styles that traditionally used cherry. It's somewhat denser than cherry and not quite as stable...but it shapes well, holds sharp detail and isn't as prone to friction burning when router blades begin to dull, or you get a little sloppy with maintaining a uniform rate of feed.   

   Edited 6/29/2004 4:17 pm ET by Jon Arno