Hi,
After reading all the posts here and on the internet I’m more confused than ever. Too many planes to choose from. At least I narrowed down my search. I have decided to buy a LeeValley handplane.
Now my ? is which LV plane should I buy to add to my nonexistent handplane collection. I have never used a handplane in my life.
Which planes would you recommend for a person just starting out?
LV low angle smoothing plane bevel up? weighing in at 3lb 5oz. I’ve read that it is good for smoothing dovetails, smoothing large surfaces, miters, end grain, long grain and also works very well as a shooting plane. kind of an all purpose plane.
LV low angle jack plane bevel up is a wee bit heavier. longer sole. Probably making it one of the top shooting board planes. due to it’s weight. I realize the size of the sole doesn’t matter much when using a shooting board. since it’s the shooting board that the plane is referencing off.
The LV #4 1/2 smoothing plane was the other plane I was considering. But is that more of a dedicated smoother?
I realize there is no perfect plane that can do it all.
If I had to choose just one plane for now.. which one should I buy?????
In order of importance which planes would you suggest a beginner like myself purchase. (top 4) It’s unlikely that I’ll ever have more than that.
Wanda
Replies
Wanda,
Answer #1: It depends on what you want to do with your plane. As many recommended to me on this list, pick a project, then buy the tool to do the job you need done.
Answer #2: I inherited my first plane from my grandfather. It is a a 4 1/2 made by a second rate American manufacturer. I cleaned it up, sharpened the balde and just had fun running it across wood to find out what it is like to use a plane. I recently bought a few more planes while traveling and stopping in at antique stores along the way. I just used my "new" 1902 Stanley 5 1/2 to flatten one side of a log before I ran in through my band saw. It only took me a few minutes to get it flat, but I never would have made it with the 4 1/2. So, the bottom line for this answer, is go where the wind blows you and have fun.
Mix Answer # 1 and answer #2.
Scotty
Hi Wanda.
If I was only going to have one plane I don't think I'd make it a low angle bevel up. They're best for difficult grain, for which I tend to use a cabinet scraper or card scraper in any case. LV themselves describe the #4 as an all round plane. I have theirs, and it does a very good job of smoothing, end grain, etc., and the sides are high enough for shooting. I've used it with a guide for jointing small boards too. The 4 1/2 isn't that much different. If you're near a store or can get to a woodshow its good to try them out for fit and comfort. Incidentally, the plane is never going to do all of the work -- you have to practise technique. It took me quite a while to acquire one!
I have Stanley-type #7, 5 1/2, 4 1/2, a smaller plane, and a couple of block planes. I use the 7 the most -- more than the LV 4 -- and it's a good plane to learn with because the length prevents you from going too far out of true. I use the 5 for roughwork, which you don't mention. I use a medium shoulder plane more than most of these.
I didn't buy an LV until I'd made all my mistakes on the old Stanleys. Having a really good new plane improved my performance on the old ones, but I think I'd still go the same route if I was starting over. Trying to knock an old plane into shape gives you insight into how they all work
Jim
No two people will agree on a recommendation, so you have to follow your gut. I've seen both block planes and jointer planes recommended as First Planes, so that about covers the entire spectrum.
If you've never held a plane in your hands, you might want to get a block plane just to see what planing is like, but you won't want to try to surface a board with it. It's fine for cleaning up edges and end grain, chamfering, etc.
If I could have only one plane, I'd go with the low-angle jack.
-Steve
Just a question, but how did you decide on which brand to buy before you decided which type of plane you want to purchase?
You replied to the wrong message.
-Steve
Well I am still pretty much a NOOB woodworking having just been getting back into it about a year ago. My first plane was a LN 60-1/2 Low angle block plane which for me was a pretty good starting plane. The second one I picked up was a LN #4 Bronze so I had a smoother, some of the other recommendations would be a #5 or 5-1/2 for a middle in the road plane and of course #6,7, or 8 as a jointer. I've now actually have a 5-1/2, along with a #9 Mitre plane to do some shooting and I recently picked up a spoke shave. My next purchase will be a #7 jointer. Again YMMV but as mentioned above everyone has their own opinions on what one to first get.B.Kidd
Wanda,
I would encourage you to go with a low-angle plane. They are simply more versitile - with a 25 degree blade, they have an effective cutting angle of 37 degrees which is suitable for end grain and soft woods. The 38 degree and 50 degree blades will cover your needs for hardwoods. I would make my decision between the L-A Jack and L-A Smooth based on the what scale of work they will see. If you are building furniture without the aid of a power jointer and planer, go for the Jack. If you want a plane to remove machine marks, surface smaller boards go for the Smooth.
Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hi Wanda
Chris gives you good advice.
I would increase the choice to three LV planes: either the LN or LV LA block, LV LA smoother, and LV LA jack.
Frankly, if this is your first plane, you should get the block first. I use the LN LA 60 1/2 block because it fits my hand better than the LV version (the LV is wider than the LN). But the LV is a much better plane in terms of design and ergonomics. Still, it will come down to which one feels more comfortable to hold. I cannot imagine you not using a block plane all the time to tweek this and that, shoot end grain, chamfer edges, remove saw marks. Hey, with a higher angle set up it functions as a smoother. I have just been given the LV LA Block with the add-on tote by Rob Lee (who knows my preference for the LN block) and I can say it is a fabulous #3 sized smoother!
Of the LA smoother and LA Jack I consider the LAS to be the most versatile plane around for smaller work, and the LAJ ditto for larger work. My instinct is that you will likely find the LAS easier to use since it is lighter and smaller. However the LAJ is an easy plane tp use and the learning curve will be rapid.
If you do decide to get the LV block and another plane, get the add-on tote for the block and then I'd get the LA Jack. That's actually an extremely versatile set up.
Whatever you choose, if you have two blades for it, you increase the versatility - one to be used at 25 degrees (for end grain - such as a shooting board), and the other at higher angles for smoothing (I'd suggest aiming for 38 degrees).
Regards from Perth
Derek
My first plane was the LV bevel up jointer. I got it with a pair of blades of different angles and figured I could do everything from smoothing to jointing with the one plane.
I now have a budding collection of planes, and while I don't regret my initial choice, if I had to do it all over again I might get the jack. The jointer is a bit unwieldy as a one-size-fits-all. My reasoning for getting it over the jack initially was that I new eventually I would need both a jointer and a smoother, so I figured I'd get the most versatile standalone plane first, add the smoother later, and save money by never getting the jack. I still don't have the jack, but someday I think I will.
My advice: don't get a block plane first. They're limited to touching things up rather than actually planing surfaces flat, smooth, or to thickness. Eventually I got the LN 140 and love the hell out of this plane.
I bought the following planes in this order, each for a specific task the others couldn't do, and each for a specific project:
1) LV BU Jointer
2) Marcou S20A Smoother
3) LN 140 Skew Block
4) LN Scrub
5) LV Router
6) LV LA Spokeshave
7) LN Beading Tool
As of now I don't feel like I "need" anything to complete any of my current projects. I'd like to add some specialized planes once my bank account recovers.
Best of luck, from one beginner to another.
---Pedro
Edited 1/31/2008 12:04 am ET by perizoqui
I would have to agree with saschafer. The low angle jack would be my first choice. It is long enough to act like the #7, but short enough that it can still be used as a smoother. The #5 is normally the 1st plane to be used in the series when bringing a rough cut board to refinement ... and the Jack is close to that size so it fits in nicely for that task. It received it's name "Jack" because it was known a the "jack of all trades" plane.
I like the low angle planes because I can change the blade to one of a higher angle and use the same plane in straight grained or difficult grained woods. That's a problem with the normal planes. For those you need to have a York frog for difficult grains and even then, if there are still problems, you are stuck.
Derik Cohen has some great informationa and reviews on low angle planes. Look them up ... very good info.
By the way, all this is moot if you don't have a small block plane ... probably the most useful plane of all.
Barry in WV
When funds are limited, it is best to look at the variety of tasks a tool can perform well. The bevel up jack is a great all around plane, it can smooth, shoot, joint, and handle some rough work as well. If I could only own one plane, that would be it. As far as block planes go nothing beats the LN rabbit block plane for versatility. It does everything a low angle block planes does and can be put into service as a shoulder plane (not as good as a dedicated shoulder plane, but good enough to get by) for the same price. If starting from scratch, these would be my first two plane purchases (jack then block) followed by a standard bevel down #7 or #8. Then add to the collection based on task to be performed that these three planes can't handle well.
Hi guys,
I forgot to mention that I do own a 13" bench top planer and an 8" jointer.
Let's say I'm working on a small bedside table with 1drawer and a bottom shelf. All the pieces for the project are jointed and planed and ready to be fastened together. Now when it comes to making sure those drawers have a piston fit. what planes would be the best suited for a small project like that?
I do realize that the sides would have to be perfectly smooth in order for the drawer sides, front and back to fit properly. Even after sanding I could still be left with high and low spots. So I'm thinking I need a Plane If I really want to be a perfectionist. I bet it's a lot easier to sneak up on the right fit for the drawer sides, front and back by using a shooting board and a plane. I do have power tools that will get me pretty close but I"d rather work without all that dust and noise.
LV LA smoother/ LA Jack and the lovely LV/LN block Plane. Now those would make for one great collection. If only I had the cash. So its' going to take a while to build up a small collection.
Usually I aquire tools as I need them depending on the project I'm working on.
Wanda
Given the new information I would start with the LN rabbit block plane instead of the LV bevel up Jack as suggested in my last post. It can be used to smooth the drawer faces and sides, clean up joints & rabbits, and adjust the fit of the drawer front to the opening. Make the LV bevel up Jack your second plane instead of the first. These two planes may take care of everything you need unless you decide to go motorless. Also I forgot to mention the Stanley #80 cabinet scraper. Possibly the best $35 I've spent on a tool. The new ones are just as good as the old ones (with the exception of the short scraper blade). I can't imagine working a large, heavily figured panel without one. Beats sanding to death.
Have fun.
Wanda,
For your example of fitting a drawer, the Low-Angle Smooth would be best suited for the job.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
the one thing not stressed enough is sharpening. You really need to choose a method of sharpening and become good at it. No plane will work well if not sharp. As for what plane to start with, I used to teach classes on using handplanes- some people get it and others it is like trying to teach a cat to swim. I own dozens of planes and what i use most often is a low angle block and a low angle jack. Good luck
Hi Wanda
I have been reading the different opinion about your little problem.
My best tip is that if you know any who are doing some woodwork, ask them if you can come and try some of their planes. Get a some instructions, find the planes that feels most comfy in your hands. Then you can buy the planes one by one. A good thing about buying second hand is that you learn much more about hove the planes work because you will have to take a full tune up.(you will find articles about this at FWW)
One plane which follows me all day long is a small lowe angel block plane.
Regards from Norway
Hi Wanda ... I'm new to all this but I'm willing to take a stab at things since I haven't got any preconceived ideas yet. I'm also in the same situation pretty much as you.Logically, I'd say there are 3 phases to working with wood as far as dimensioning is concerned. There is coarse work, medium work and fine smoothing work. All tools are made to fit into one of those categories. The first ones hog off large shavings for the coarse fit, the medium ones take less and the smoothers just a small bit.You have a power jointer and planer. Those are coarse tools - at least IMO. They are the first ones you use to get your wood well along the way to the desired dimensions. But they leave marks. With planes, I'd say they amount to a #5 or 6 or perhaps even a scrub plane though that seems to be slightly for a different purpose. With bench planes, a medium length sole which can be used to hog off fair amounts of lumber to bring you to a basic dimension.Next comes the medium work which might be a belt or power drum sander for power tools and would be a #7 or 8 for a bench plane. The job of the middle tool is to get very close to the final dimension and present a very smooth and level surface by removing the rougher surface left by the coarse tool. The long sole of the larger planes won't be so affected at the smaller soles of the 5 or 6 so the end result is going to be rather smooth. A jointer plane will help remove snipe, for instance, from your jointer/planer.Finally comes the smoothing plane which in power might be a ROS but in planes would be a smoother - #1-4.5 depending on the scale of your piece. Most use a #4 it seems. The idea logically would be to get a wide shaving here with an even thickness and you can creep up on the desired thickness more slowly as the shaving ought to only be maybe .001 or .002.From my very limited experience, I think that on the woods I've used, the surface left by shearing of a plane is far richer than that left by sanding. It's possible I'm wrong on all this and I would welcome anyone pointing out the errors in my logic. To me, this all stands to reason based on the size of the shaving the tool creates. So then, I would answer your question by suggesting both a jointer plane and a smoother. As for low or high angle, I guess that seems to be a personal choice and something I don't know much about. I guess it depends on how figured the wood is you intend to work with.Ken
Hi SparrowHawk,
I managed to locate a #5 Stanley reconditioned hand plane today. An antique store downtown is selling one for $100.00 I have no idea if that's a fair price for an antique hand plane since I haven't had a chance to check the plane over. The man said it had Stanley with the # 5 stamped on it. Does that mean it's an old bedrock stanely plane?
I also have the number of a man who sells planes not too far from where I live. So I should give him a call and see how much his planes are selling for and what types of planes he has for sale.
You mention the Smoother and the Jointer... That's 2 of the planes Rob Cosman recommended on his webpage for his drawer making workshop. Either a Jack/ jointer and a smoother those are the 2 he listed. He prefers the jack/foreplane ( I take it the #6 foreplane is larger than a Jack and smaller than a Jointer ) for using on the shooting board.
Wanda
I'd love to have his video on "Rough to Ready". I have his dvd on drawer making , dovetails and the VHS tape on Hand planing and sharpening. They are all Excellent videos!
Wanda
Hi,
You might want to get hold of the "Stanley Little Big Book -- Planes" from LV at around $15. It's pocket-sized, and gives details and market values of all the old Stanley Planes. I'd be highly sceptical of (a) any antique dealer, and (b) one whose only knowledge of the plane was the name and the number. And is it reconditioned to be a desirable antique or a usable tool? I like my old Stanleys, but given the choice between one that needs work at $100 and a new LV at $200 I'd go for the LV every time. But hey, it's a lot of fun checking them out.
I was lucky, I got my old planes for free. A widowed neighbour was clearing out her house and wanted to find a good home for her husband's tools, and I was the only woodworker she knew. I offered to pay, but she wouldn't hear of it. I believe she liked the thought of knowing who had them. There were thousands of Stanleys made, and there must be hundreds lying around unused. I'd let people around know that you're interested in finding some -- you might get lucky. Hope you do,
Jim
Hi Wanda,I have looked at old planes quite a bit at flea markets and Ebay and $100 is a HUGE amount for a #5. Most of the time I see decent ones for about $15-25 US with very nice ones at about $35. I'd look further if I were you. Just because something looks old doesn't mean it's worth much.I just did a google search and came up with this page to help date a used Stanley plane that you might come across
http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/
I'd also suggest learning about what reconditioning a used plane entails before trying to buy one. There are so many out there - especially #4-#5s that you should be able to find one in very good shape for much less money. Jointers are harder to come by and more pricey.I've got a friend who builds guitars for Charley Daniels, Marshall Tucker and Confederate Railroad among others so I've had the chance to see some examples of high end tools as well as learned a lot from asking questions and watching him work. (One of the best parts is that I get his cutoffs and scraps). I can tell you that Lie-Nielsen and Veritas both make outstanding planes - far superior to what you will find in used Stanleys but, as with anything, you get what you pay for. That said, I've got used #4 and #5 Stanley's that work great and only cost me about $50 for both (plus 1 replacement iron).From what I understand, the Jack plane is a #5 while the Jointer is either a #7 or #8. The Foreplane is a #6. According to my thinking they should be grouped this way:#1-#4 1/2 Smoothers
#5-#6 Coarse
#7-#8 MediumFor a shooting board, it's logical to want as much of the plane's sole to ride on the edge as possible so the cut is exactly parallel and perpendicular. A #7 or #8 jointer would then make the most sense. But I've had good luck with my #5. The bedrock design has more metal on the sides so it would be just a bit better technically. The trick with shooting seems to be to go slow, be sure the plane is solidly on the bench/track and the sole securely against the guide. Make sure the iron is square and set to only take a thin shaving and, of course, the sharper the better.I wouldn't take anything I say as anything more than a newbie's ramblings though. I've only built a few boxes and a bookcase so there is almost no experience behind me. You may, in fact, be far advanced beyond me ... so take it for whatever it's worth.Ken
Hi,
Thanks for the link on Stanley Hand planes SparrowHawk. In the meantime I'll search around see if I get lucky. Antique dealers do charge a mint for most items.
Wanda
Wanda
I gave up looking for good deals on old planes at "antique" and collectible shops. LIke many things (old guitars, comic books, etc.) the dealers know there is an interest and market there, and price accordingly.
I started with a couple of brand new planes, learned the basics of using, sharpening and fettling, and added to them with garage and estate sale bargains. Let your project be your guide. You don't need a full set 1-7. SparrowHawk did a breakdown that makes sense to me. I would add that the planes I use most are the small ones (block planes, shoulder plane, rabbet plane) that help you make fine corrections to your work, rather than the big dimensioning planes.
It's like asking others what type of vehicle you should have. It totally depends on what you're gonna use it for.
To make small cuts and little adjustments, a nice block plane. For smoothing larger pieces of wood, a #4/5 smoother plane. For true leveling of faces and edges of long boards or panels, a big #7 or 8.
After that, the applications become more specialized.
As for me, I have two dozen planes and I do some of all kinds of work so I use 'em all. But as a whole, I rely on my motorized planer and joiner and saws to get wood most of the way there. So I probably use a small smoother (like a #2 or 3) or a block plane more than anything else.
Wanda:
Welcome, it's nice to see a few of us girls around this place now and again! Derek Cohen's advice is good I'd add only one thing - buy your first couple planes new and learn how to keep them tuned then hit the flea markets and antique fairs to fill in the gaps between the three that Derek suggested. I have run across a number of really great old planes for next to nothing over the years.
Madison
I might as well jump in. I have old <!----><!----><!---->Stanley<!----><!----> #5, 6, 10.5, 78, 75 and a newer block plane. I bought these over time from swap meets and fleet markets. No reason for these models, just what I could find that looked in ok shape. I first had to learn to tune and sharpen them, I enjoyed this others don’t, but to me this made all the difference in learning to use them. It’s like a chicken and egg thing. Great technique on a poorly tuned plane is as miserable as poor technique on the best tuned plane. If you buy a new plane you can work on technique and then you can learn to maintain them.
<!----><!----> <!---->
Best of luck
Brad
FWW Article:
link
Handplanes I Can't Live Without
Do better work with these 8 vital tools
by Garrett Hack
View Image
Every shop needs handplanes, even those that rely heavily on power tools. There are just some jobs--such as smoothing a surface or fitting a joint perfectly--that you can't do as well or as quickly with a power tool. With that in mind, Garrett Hack reveals his list of the eight essential handplanes. Learn why no woodworker should be without a No. 4 bench plane, two adjustable block planes, jointer, shoulder plane, smoothing plane, spokeshave, and small router plane.
Wanda,
I have read your posts, paying particular attention to what you want to do /are making and the fact that you have stated that you want a LV plane-so I think there is a straight forward answer to your question.
I suggest you go for the LV bevel up jack. This will enable you to do most work including smoothing. Especially smoothing and fitting those drawer sides-preferably before any sanding (;).For general furniture making a plane of this size is far more versatile and easy to use than a block plane, plus there is a blade choice .There may be no perfect plane that can do it all, but in your case this one comes nearest.
Now, if you had not stated that you want to go for LV, I would again have suggested a plane of some length-so that means a number 5, preferably a 51/2. Here, if economics is a question , there is the nice choice of going flea and doing some re-building, depending on your inclinations.
Hi Philip,
How does the LV jack plane compare to the LV Low angle smoothing plane? Is the 25 degree bevel iron ok for smoothing or would I have to purchase the 38 degree bevel blade as well for smoothing? Would the heavier jack perform better than the lightweight (3 1/2lb)smoother?
I am considering the LV Jackplane. Since I won't be adding another plane to my collection for quite sometime. So If I can only have 1 plane the LV low angle Jack bevel up plane would most likely be my best option. But I haven't ruled out purchasing the LN #4 1/2 smoother.
Are the Leevalley blades as good as the LN blades? The blades on the LN #4 1/2 and #5 are 3/16" thick I believe. Does't that make them easier to sharpen. and you could also sharpen several secondary bevels before having to touch up the primary bevel.
1. Jackplane 15" long $219 Canadian dollars
2. Foreplane either a #6 (18") or #7 (22")
Those 2 planes might be able to cover a lot it now most of my needs.
I don't think I can lose out considering the price of the LV planes. The LN are so much more expensive. I've read some excellent reviews on the LV planes.
Why is it every book I seem to pick up on the subject of planes recommends the #4 or #4 1/2 for beginners.
Shame the LN are so much more expensive. They seem to be a little heavier than the LV planes and they do have thicker blades. That's a bonus. The LV planes appear to be easier to adjust. I've noticed they have a set screw on either side of the blade which is supposed to keep the blade centered in the mouth.
How easy are the Lie Nielsen Planes to adjust?
Wanda
Hi Wanda
I'm not Philip, so you get two replies (at least).
1. Jackplane 15" long $219 Canadian dollars
2. Foreplane either a #6 (18") or #7 (22")
Those 2 planes might be able to cover a lot it now most of my needs.
Buy one or the other, not both. They cover much the same territory. I'd go for the LA Jack as it is more versatile if you are getting one plane.
Why is it every book I seem to pick up on the subject of planes recommends the #4 or #4 1/2 for beginners.
That is because these are standard sizes for smoothing planes. THe #4 is a medium size and the #4 1/2 is the large size (the #3 is the small size). They are also the traditional, bevel down format. Stanley make them, as do LN, LV and Clifton, amongst others. It is when you begin to look at bevel up formats that you look at equivalent sizes in the LN #64/LV LA Smoother (#4 size) and the LV BU Smoother (#4 1/2 size). LN do not make a bevel up in the #4 1/2 size.
How does the LV jack plane compare to the LV Low angle smoothing plane? Is the 25 degree bevel iron ok for smoothing or would I have to purchase the 38 degree bevel blade as well for smoothing? Would the heavier jack perform better than the lightweight (3 1/2lb)smoother?
Good grief, that covers a book!
LAJ is a wider, longer and heavier version of the LAS. They have different roles. The LAJ is, arguably, the best bang for the buck around. It would be my choice of the two .... BUT it depends on the size of the work you plan. If you are only working with small boxes, then the LAS m ay be better for you (as long as you have a mechnical means for preparing your boards).
A 25 degree bevel in a BU plane is NOT OK for smoothing. And to complicate matters, I do not recommend buying the 38 degree bevel, but buying the 25 degree and adding a 38 degree microbevel. This will make it easier to add camber to the blade. But I would also argue that you should have a 25 degree for cross grain and end grain, and a 38 degree for face grain. You will need both.
LAJ on the shooting board (non-standard tote) ..
View Image
Are the Leevalley blades as good as the LN blades?
Both offer A2 steel (although LV now also offer O1). The quality is similar, but I'd say that LV probably have the edge (not a pun!) as they have been investing in equipment to lap/finish the blades to a very high standard. I have plenty of both planes/blades and I'd give the nod to LV.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Edited 2/3/2008 12:19 am ET by derekcohen
Hi Derek,
I'll make this quick .. The Superbowl is about to begin. :)
"A 25 degree bevel in a BU plane is NOT OK for smoothing. And to complicate matters, I do not recommend buying the 38 degree bevel, but buying the 25 degree and adding a 38 degree microbevel. This will make it easier to add camber to the blade. But I would also argue that you should have a 25 degree for cross grain and end grain, and a 38 degree for face grain. You will need both."
The LV LA bevel up smoother .... Taking a diagonal cut, partly across and partly along the grain ... Wouldn't that be ok for smoothing non difficult wood. I realize the more difficult the grain the steeper the angle has to be. (38 degrees) I suppose the LV LA BU is a compromise meaning it is not a dedicated smoother. On the Leevalley webpage they say it smoothed large surfaces(how large is large) well. they recommend the 38 degree bevel for difficult grain. Described it as a surprisingly versatile plane.
Since I have a planer and jointer a dedicated smoother might be all I need. The more I think about it I don't think I'll ever be able to stop at just buying 1 plane. Doubt I could go wrong with the LV Jack BU plane.
I'm mostly be planing pine, ash, poplar, oak and maple, mahogany
Wanda
Wanda,
I would agree with your last statement saying that you can't go wrong with the Veritas BU Jack.
I also agree with what Jeff said in his post 39920.31 about used planes. Unless you have a greater passion for restoring tools than using them, stick with tools in good shape. I don't agree that Lie Neilsen is better than Veritas, but that has been talked about enough.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hi guys,
I've decided to put my money towards a LV BU plane. Decision made. In the meantime I'm going to have a look around for an old plane. I like fiddling around with tools. Besides I need something to practice my hoining skills on. :) I need to start practicing planing some wood!
Wanda
I love my Lee Vally BU Jack plane, you love it as well. One of the best made hand tools I've ever bought. Have fun with the 'classic' hand plane, whatever you get. As I've already said, they are excellent tools as well. Let us know what you get and how it goes...Jeff
Hi Wanda
Good choice and plan!
I'd be on the look out for either a Stanley #3 or #4. These will work very well on softwoods and straight-grained timbers.
Don't forget that you will need a block plane. Many, many uses. If you are looking at fleas, then keep an eye out for a Stanley #60 1/2 low angle.
Try to buy pre-WW2 planes if you can.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Okay Wanda, Derek has said a few things so that leaves this one:
"How does the LV jack plane compare to the LV Low angle smoothing plane?"
If you could try both of those when fitting a drawer you will answer your question.
Is there no place where you could actually try out or spend some time with someone who has various planes ?.
Giving advice on this sort of subject really depends a lot on knowing what sort of woodworking a person wants to do, amongst other things, but I am fairly sure that being told that X spends most time with Y plane in his shop is not too useful, as X could be a wooden shoe maker for all we know (halfajoke).
The blade thickness should not influence your thinking when it comes to sharpening.
Philip Marcou
Hi Philip,
I just finished watching Rob Cosman's video on hand planing and sharpening. EXCELLENT video! I've also watched the Frank Klausz video on Hand Tools tuinine and using chisels, planes and saws. I am trying to learn as much as possible before making any purchase with regards to planes.
Unfortunately, I don't have any relatives that are into woodworking. I Don't have a LeeValley store nearby. I certainly don't want to buy a Home Depot or Kent plane.
I could always check out E-bay (Canada/US) and see if I can find an old Stanley plane for sale. before investing large amts of cash into LV or LN plane. Would be a good education in how to tune up a plane. I could practice my sharpening skills using the Scary Sharp method.
After watching the Klaus video I think I could manage sharpening and tuning a plane. Now that I know how all the parts work. I'm up for the challenge.
Now to find an old plane. There was an old Bailey Plane for sale on E-bay last week.. In my neck of the woods I won't be able to find any old planes. I'll have to go online. What's a fair price for an old Stanley #4 1/2 or Bailey plane. would be nice if I could find a Norris plane.
Wanda
Don't do it. If you want to work with tools rather than on them, buy a good tool and buy it only once. Get the LV or LN BU Jack, that seems to be the consensus recommendation and take it from there. There is no need to go flagellating yourself with a rusty piece of junk. Get something that will work out of the box, and let you work on making lovely things out of wood. The tool is not the goal, it is a means to an end.
AMEN!
Buying used hand planes a waste of time??? Nonsense. Don't YOU believe it for a second. You've seen the video, how hard can it be?I bought most of my hand planes from Ebay just as you are considering. I bought mostly Miller Falls planes, I fell in love with them and they are every bit as good as an old Stanley. If I was short of cash, I would buy the OLD craftsman planes, they are quality planes I believe made by Sargent. Regardless, the old Stanley planes are fine as well, especially the Stanley Bedrock planes, although collectors have driven up the prices on these. I paid roughly $35-$50 for my planes, depending on which plane. They were all in good shape, not rusty hunk of junk as some would have you believe. THESE ARE NOT A WASTE OF TIME, they are great planes. I have probably 30 minutes total in each plane for cleaning and flattening the sole, touching up the mouth, whatever they needed. They didn't need much, I didn't buy rusty junk to begin with. That 30 minutes will leave you with a tool that will outlast you. The only caveat is I would recommend you replace the blade with a thicker new quality blade like a Hock blade or a blade from LV. This is not mandatory however, you will have NO PROBLEM getting a plane to work just fine with the blade that came with it, if you can sharpen a blade properly.Just be sure to look at the pictures on Ebay carefully of what you are buying, and check the ratings of the people you are buying from, and watch a few auctions before you start bidding, to get a feel for how the bidding works. You will do fine. I've seen some great deals on planes, although most of the time the bidding is frenetic at the end. Just don't get caught up in the moment and spend more than you should. SET A PRICE BEFORE YOU START BIDDING, and stick to that price. You'll get your hand planes, and you'll have fun too!Is my LV plane better? Yes. It also cost a heck of a lot more to buy it. But it's not so much better, that I don't use my OLD planes. The fact is I almost never use my LV plane (not that I don't LOVE it). It is the low angle BU Jack plane and I only get it out for especially difficult situations. I love my old hand planes and for general day to day use, that's what I use. They serve me very well and I don't have a fortune tied up in them. If you have unlimited budget, by all means, get the Lie Nielsens. If you can't use a file, can't figure out how to check a sole for flatness, can't sharpen a blade, or can't understand how a plane works, then also stick with the LV or Lie Nielsen planes. If you can do these things however, then there is no better feeling than to take an old tool, dust it off and clean it up and return it to active use.Happy bidding and enjoy the shavings...Jeff
Well said. Not all old Stanley type planes are "rusty pieces of junk," and some work very well "out of the box," so to speak. Mine did. I didn't pay a cent for them, but the craftsman who had owned them had cared for them lovingly. For form's sake I spent a couple of hours checking them out and sharpening the blades, but they didn't really need it. I bought a few LV planes to fill in the gaps, and they're great planes, but if I look at a finished piece of wood I find it hard to tell which plane produced it. My old #7 can take a shaving as long and thin as the LV #4 -- and that's without a Hock blade.
And I find it hard to believe that for every purchaser of a state of the art new plane the tool is not the goal. There have to be as many LN/LV fetishists, burnishing the bronze, as Stanley collectors.
Jim
Rob's video is great. Mr. Lee's (of Lee Valley) book on sharpening is great as well because it explains why.
In terms of what plane - my first 'real' plane was a LV block plane. Its relatively inexpensive, and everybody needs a block plane. A lot of block planes are junk, but LV and LN are really good. Block planes are bevel up, so it just like a small version of a regular BU plane, but smaller. Anyhow, once I sharpened that little block plane up and started taking near transparent shavings off a block of wood I was hooked.
Personally, I prefer the BU planes because you can remove blades for sharpening (no chipbreaker to remove) and you can have a number of blades around with different bevel angles so you can quickly change angles.
I'm sure there are religious issues pro/con BU, as there are for everything else involving tools. Still - think about a block plane and maybe order Lee's book when you order the plane.
I use my LN LA adjustable throat block plane more than any other. Next is my LN #8.
Here's my two cents. I've found that a low angle block plane is a very handy tool around the shop and tuning one up will teach you a lot about maintaining planes. I bought a Groz from Rockler, it took a lot of work to flatten the sole and clean up the throat but now I have a very useful tool that gets a lot of use.
I have got to tell you that I have the Veritas bevel up jointer and it is worth its weight in gold. I don't have a powered jointer, and that plane is great for edge jointing, face planing... I'll even use it set for a fine cut when I'm working a large panel. I'm getting my money's worth from it on just about every project.
Tom Iovino
http://tomsworkbench.com
I have the Veritas Bevel Up Smoother, and I agre - worth it's weight in gold!
Mike D
I got the fence when I bought the jointer - true, I could joint two boards face to face in the vise (any variation of angles would be canceled out), but that fence helps me get true 90* edges...That plane handles like a Ferrari on the wood...Tom Iovino
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
Yes,
Once I got my Veritas BUS, my old Stanley #4 is just gathering dust.
Mike D
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