What a difference! Below are photos of a table I recently completed One taken in my studio and the other taken by a professional photographer. The one taken by photographer is just a a proof for my approval but you can really see a difference, well worth the money.
Do you prefer to photo yourself or have a pro in a studio?
Edited 10/7/2009 9:07 am by Timberwerks
Replies
Professional photos always look better. Hopefully your photographer allows you some input on which angle and height to shoot your pieces from along with some initial trial shots to get familiar with what the pieces look like when shot at different angles. This photo looks better than your studio shot but could be even better if shot from a slightly different angle and height. I have found that looking at other peoples pro photos of furniture helps with the initial orientation of the piece in the photo. Even with pro photos there is some distortion depending upon how close the camera is to the furniture, etc. that may need to be touched up with Photoshop.
Bob
Even with pro photos there is some distortion depending upon how close the camera is to the furniture, etc. that may need to be touched up with Photoshop.
I hear you but NOT quite true.. Ok, so we air brushed the final photos for publication. All black and white for technical manuals.
Our technical photos for service manuals were all black and white. He used a large 'box' camera with bellows.. He used what I will call glass 12x12 glass plates? for film and he could distort the bellows to make anything look whatever plane.
Most photographs were time lapsed exposure and he would run around with a lamp with a shade on it and do all sorts of funny stuff shining light here and there. His photography was expensive but phenomenal outcomes!
I take pictures of my own stuff just because I was told that a professional photographer is very expensive and is not a practical solution when you pump out a fair number of projects. You can see my pictures here: https://www.finewoodworking.com/profile/Senomozi.
Not as good as the pros but decent enough for customers to look at in my opinion. I have a home made studio I built after taking a photo workshop with Michael Fortune.
If you don't mind me asking:
- How much did it cost you for the photo?
- Do you pay for the number of pictures you get or is the price set for a session? I am asking because I like to have a number of pictures highlighting different aspects of a piece.
- What are the rules regarding copyrights/reproduction (electronic or real photo paper?
- Why is the photographer's name watermarked in the photo? Did you get pictures without watermarks?
Thanks in advance for the info
The photo is $40.00, it was special pricing while she was at the furniture show. The water mark is there because it was a proof just sent to me this morning, along with that photo is another you can see below. The hi res photo I purchase will not have the water mark, proofs are low res. The photographer took a number of shots at both angles to get the lighting right. The reason for this photo is so I can use it in next years show directory and promo mailers. Pricing is per photo I choose to use.
As I build more pieces I will then take them to her studio for photographing. I've tried to do it myself many times but have never been happy.
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Edited 10/7/2009 10:25 am by Timberwerks
While I agree that a pro takes better pictures than I can, I do like having control over the photos taken - the angles, the details, the setup, etc. If I take the phtoos myself, I can get exactly what I want, but perhpas not as good quality as a pro's. But close, at least for small items which don't require a lot of room and a large back drop to shoot. I've attached a small box (7-1/2" long) which I shot myself with a Canon A590IS - a $130 digital, non- SLR camera. I played with the distance from lens to subject, as well as lighting sources and intensities. What do you think of the photo itself?
I built a project for a friend of mine who is a pro photographer, so he's paying me back with his abilities.
And yes, good photos make a huge difference.
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I would add that the what really differentiates a pro, other than the $$$$$$ SLR camera, is the backdrop and lighting.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Not even close.
No? That's what I notice. What's your take?Edit: I'm definitely in the beginning stage here!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com
and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com) - Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Edited 10/7/2009 3:49 pm by flairwoodworks
What I see, is it's a bit to dark towards the back and I notice a hair in the photo. It's still a good photo for Etsy or a similar site but I don't think it would be fitting for a magazine or a post card to mail to clients. I like the black background but the lighting and angle that photo was taken could be better.Timberwerks Studio Blog
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Thanks for the critique. I really appreciate it.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,You state that "you are definitely in the beginning stage."You appear to have not seen enough real professional photography.
It takes years of learning and practice just to handle the "lighting" without all else that goes into produce "A" level images every time out the door on demand. The gear and the backdrops are the smallest part of it. There is a huge difference between a local convention photographer and a one lens digital zoom or a three light portrait photographer and really top end professionals who command 3-10K+ per day plus expenses.Making such a statement is to demean and insult another profession.By that standard, the only difference between an amateur woodworker and a professional woodworker is a $$$$ eurosaw/ lumber and a huge shop. I think many on this forum would take exception to those definitions.
This is not the forum to go into what a professional photographer is or isn't. I would suggest the cafe or photographic venues. Whether or not to use one is a good topic though.RegardsBoilerbay
Edited 10/7/2009 6:31 pm by boilerbay
Sorry if I insulted anyone. I'll stick to talking about what I know.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Bygones,
I enjoy reading your posts.
BB
You certainly didn't insult me, Chris. (I have a thick coating of flame-resistant "insultation". ;-) ) And, while Boiler has a point, I like people feeling free to talk about whatever they wish. Doing so, I think, opens up new opportunities for communication and mutual learning.There are many approaches to making a photograph of a functional object. And, each object has multiple features that might be emphasized in the photo. My approach, just as one example, is to try to squeeze as much information as possible about the object, its function, and its shape into a single photo. Doing that requires skill in lighting, along with having the equipment necessary to do the job. Equally important, however, is maintaining an accurate representation of the geometry of the object, which usually means using the right lens focal length at the proper distance. For example, wide-angle lenses positioned too close to the object will often distort the geometry, sometimes called perspective. As an example, I might have approached photographing your lovely scalloped-lid box differently. First, I'd probably shoot it from the front - the view that the buyer would usually have. Then, I'd open the lid slightly to show some of the interior, so as to visually confirm that its really meant to hold something. A small block, placed near the hinge so it's obscured, might do the trick. Shape is visually conveyed by a combination of highlights, shadows, and spectral reflections. So, several lights might be needed to accomplish a pleasing and informative representation. Having some light from the side, as you did, creates both highlights and shadows with the scallops, showing their shape. Including some small spectral reflections (shiny areas with no detail) can sometimes help to show the nature of the finish. My personal aesthetic is to use a matte-finish medium gray seamless backdrop for most things. That way, the object doesn't appear to be floating in space. Then, I light the backdrop separately, so there is some tonal gradation. But, tastes in that regard vary. Plus, different objects demand different treatments. All of this takes time to develop the necessary skills, and some analysis during the photo shoot. I usually start with what I think will do the right thing for the photo, and then take a test shot. I'll then look at that and ask myself what could I do differently to improve the image. Sort of like looking at something you've built and asking, does that edge need rounding over, or would a slight chamfer be better?
While I agree essentially with what you have said it doesn't take much to improve upon shop made photographs.
Furniture is generally shot at 3/4 profile, a seamless paper backdrop is relatively inexpensive and a basic understanding of lighting is easily learnt.
But I warn you. It can be addictive :)
When my professional moved away I decided to take control. And lost control, he, he..
I now have two cameras, five lenses and four studio strobes. The upside is I no longer pay $125/shoot and I'm having as much fun as I did/do with furniture making.
Cheers, Don
Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker (all photo's credit to AK Photo's)
Associate Editor - Canadian Woodshop News and Review <!----><!----><!---->
Edited 10/8/2009 1:37 pm by donkondra1
Edited 10/8/2009 1:38 pm by donkondra1
Don, you need more strobes, and a few softboxes, reflectors, etc., etc. ;-)
LOL
Three softboxes, two brolly's, two sizes of light tent, all manner of umbrella's, turned an old tripod into a reflector holder, had a casting made in aluminum to adapt a smaller softbox to a strobe, wireless triggers, dual desktop monitors, laptop for tethered shooting...
Out of control and Loving It :)
Cheers, Don Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
Associate Editor - Canadian Woodshop News and Review <!----><!----><!---->
"Out of control and Loving It :)"I hear ya. My "camera case" is a refrigerator-sized safe, and the lighting gear occupies a spare bedroom. Imagine the woodworking tools I could have bought with all that money. Oh well, photography is great fun, too.
Don,How did you learn? Books? Classes? Observation? Just practice and experimentation?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hi Chris,
I had a rudimentary understanding of the basics from having used a 35mm Mamiya for personal archival type shots using natural light for a number of years and I paid attention when having my work shot professionally.
A bonus was I was friends with my photographer and we collaborated on angles, etc. I've also acted as a juror for marketing status for our local craft council and you quickly become aware of what works and what doesn't, at least for craft photography.
When I moved on to a 2 mp P&S Kodak digital camera in 2002ish the freedom from film developing and the immediacy of digital renewed my interest in photography in general.
When my photographer moved away it was all the excuse I needed to upgrade my camera and do my own work.
From there I would say experimentation was the best teacher but I also had time to spend on a number of photo forums (waiting for a carpal tunnel operation). Lots of time reading and searching google :)
Although I am a readaholic, books don't do it for me when I'm researching a specific aspect of a topic, that's where the internet excells.
I started with 500w shop lights and quickly discovered the importance of light temperature.
Then worked through setting up a continuous lighting system with CF bulbs. That taught me a lot about lighting.
After about a year of that I decided I wanted to step up to studio strobes. Most of what I learned with continuous lights carried through to using strobes.
So the short answer is, I learned photography the same way I learned woodworking. Dogged persistence, research, experimentation tempered or fueled by large amounts of curiousity :)
Cheers, Don Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
Associate Editor - Canadian Woodshop News and Review <!----><!----><!---->
Don,
I followed much the same route, although I never had photos taken professionally.
I learned that I could have saved a lot of money and time, by seeking professional advise. I was fortunate that right here on Knots I found help that took my photos from okay to a whole other level. Now, I'm not saying I have mastered photography, but I do see it is in a new light (sorry about that). Look at the attached photos, which are of the same piece, one taken in my trial and mostly error method and the other with the input of a professional.
The biggest revelation, was that flooding a piece with light is not the road to a good photo. Before I had somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 watts lighting the subject. Now I have about half that, but because of proper light placement and light blocking, the piece comes to life.
The photos also point out that while equipment isn't everything, it certainly is important. The brightly lit photo was taken with a standard lens and shows the keystone effect, while the better photo was taken with a tilt shift lens and has no distortion.
Rob Millardhttp://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Great photos guy's.Timberwerks Studio Blog
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Hey Don I started with a Mamiya also and still have it. I lost interest in photography when the price of silver went stupid in the early 80's. The learning curve was to expensive.I did some dark room work with a couple pros and it was a wonderful learning expereince.I got the first color Mac and a copy of Quarck. Ola la. Had a friend who had a scanner and I got my second daughters baby pic scanned. this is 1991. Well I played with it for a while and then made up the birth announcement. People thought I paid huge bucks for it. Not!! I'm cheap.
In 2000 I got and still have my Epson 650 1.1 megapixels. there is about 3 adjustments.I really enjoyed taking as many pics as you could and trash the bad ones. One day there was a Sask summer storm screaming down the Qu'Appele Valley and I was standing on my dock, clicking away till I ran inside. So I posted one pic one the CBC website. Envoirment Canada saw it and asked for permission to use it as it was a screen saver on a lot of folks computers and they wanted it for educational purposes. So I sent them a disk with the whole storm coming down the valley 25 pics or so . I got a very nice letter, and some promo stuff and a severe storm handbook.My neighbour just bought a fancy DSLR and we were doing some shots. Now I am hinting for a nice Christmas present.
Ralph,I agree that people should be free to talk about whatever they wish. However, when an uninformed person is taken too as someone informed, there is a problem. Had I not said what I did, I would still be of that perspective. Instead, I have gained much respect for pro photographers. It really seemed so simple! (Relatively).I've taken the first step down the supposedly slipperly slope of photography - I spent a big $35 for 3m (~3 yards) of black velveteen. I don't particularly care to see the back drop.When I shot my shell box (as it's being referred to), I took some 215 shots, from all angles and with varied light sources and intensities. The image I posted was the most interesting, with the shadows across the scallops.One interesting thing about photography is that while you can be selective and shoot only the better parts (the tight dovetails, not the gappy ones), but also that the special light (angles?) used can accentuate certain things that might otherwise go unnoticed. I recall a picture Derek Cohen posted a while ago of a dovetailed drawer. The scribe lines were very obvious in the photo, but according to Derek, are barely visible when looking at it in real life.Minding my footing and taking slow, deliberate steps on the slipperly slope,Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hey Doc.. I got a Kodak easy shot digital.. and just a few weeks ago my $9.99 tripod arrived from Amazon. It scares me just how close to "pro" I am now but.... I'm retired officially when I turn 62 tomorrow. I'm done with work... I'm done I tell ya! So............. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards from the not often serious Sarge who can be detected as serious on those rare occasion by hearing the safety click on his .45 Auto... :>)
Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Edited 10/9/2009 8:57 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Well HAPPY BIRTHDAY there Sarge. Did you think you'd make it?
Here I thought I was the younger one. 62 Just imagine! Does that mean 6 + 2 candles or do you still have the lungs for all 62!I think the same on the .45 but nothin says lovin like....
the chink, chink of a twelve gauge sliding one in.(well maybe the breech lock on a 175)Take careDoc
"Did you think you'd make it"?....
No!
"Does that mean 6 + 2 candles or do you still have the lungs for all 62"!
I use a 140 mph leaf blower... I work smarter these days. :>)
"the chink, chink of a twelve gauge sliding one"...
On my short list.. which may be very short at my age. ha..ha..
Gotta run to clean house before I cut grass as frankly I'm bored waiting on finish to cure. There is no respect for the elderly it appears. ha..ha.. ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Edited 10/9/2009 2:16 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Happy birthday, Sarge.FWIW, you're not old until your "Bucket List" replaces the girly calendar on the shop wall. ;-)
Danica Patrick modeling in a skimpy bikini and heels on and beside a car posters gets the call in the shop. Edyta and Chelsea from Dancing with the Stars is on the short list... the search continues as those posters have got to be out there somewhere. ha..ha..
Thanks Ralph... Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
My grandpa had a click of a eight gauge shotgun. It was single shot or maybe two? I forget at the moment.. I just held my ears and most things within 500 yards were extinct!
Another option is the AA12. On full auto, it empties a 20-round drum in about 5 seconds.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhstuvzMiB0
I've seen quite a number of 10 gauges and fired one but.. no 8 gauge. Are you sure it wasn't a 105 mm Howitzer barrel mounted to a stock? ha..ha.. Just kidding as the 10 G definitely took me a step back without exerting any effort on my part. :>)Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
I was in the 16 th. Artillery 2nd Armored Division "Hell on Wheels" back in the very early 1960's. As I was there in 1962. My things to fix were 8 and 5 inch self propeled guns and some 155 mm to back us up! And the Honest John that never worked!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGR-1_Honest_John
When I need photos, I go to a retired professional photographer and former magazine editor in Rio Rancho named Ralph Barker. He can do anything I need, from digital to 8x10 film in a view camera, and lets me have input during the process. ;-)
But does he give you good pricing? :)Timberwerks Studio Blog
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He and I negotiate the pricing over a (single) beer, and it usually works out to cost of materials. ;-)
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