Hey All
I was wondering what others do for keeping rust off there tools table saw top lathes bed etc. I have an unheated shop (live in Central FL) and I want to keep rust from forming on my tools. I just moved here from Ct and the weather is extremely different i.e humidity. What do you guys or ladies do. I have read that some place a heavy cover over there tools made from beach towels to keep stuff from rusting but Id like some advice. Hope somebody can help. Thank you so much
later Centaur76
Edited 12/17/2004 10:21 pm ET by Centaur76
Replies
Hi Centaur -
I'm on the opposite end of the country (WA state - and on the 'wet' side as well) so I can appreciate your problem. While I don't have to fight rust constantly, we get certain climatic conditions where the air is warmer than the surrounding .... surroundings. Namely large or even small tools. Thus I've gone into my shop of a morning and found things simply *dripping* with condensation.
I've been using two things. One is Boeshield, I beleive that's the name, it's an oil/wax and whatever concoction that does a pretty good job of displacing a film of moisture on the surface of metal. It's also supposed to penetrate the pores of the metal and provide further protection. I find that given those conditions where moisture is actually forming beads on the top of my table saw, this 'further' protection doesn't really go that far.
The other product is a dry lube material that contains teflon. It has the added benefit of reducing friction. It actually seems to be better at staving off rust when the moisture is actually condensing on the surfaces, although not totally.
Here in our area I'm leary of using any kind of cover over the machinery. The moisture, in our situation, needs to be evaporated if at all possible. Meaning air flow. Anything that prevents air flow will forstall evaporation and encourage more condensation.
I'm of the opinion that the key to keeping moisture off the tools and thus preventing rust is to do whatever possible to 1) keep the surfaces of the tools above air temperature - might be hard in Florida (grin) or 2) get some sort of dehumidification system for the shop. I would opt for a dehumidfier but my shop is like working within walls made of swiss cheese - I'd have to dehumidify half of the county. So ... I put in a wood stove which I hope will keep the temperature of the shop and the tools warm enough to stave off the condensation.
Some people have mentioned using talcum powder. Never have myself so can't say if it works.
No covers!
Oh - and try to keep the tops of the machines dusted off. I've noticed that sawdust, even fine sanding dust absorbs moisture from the air and will make things even worse.
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Thanks Dennis
Hopefully some more people maybe from around fl will have some ideas and get back to me. Thanks for your advice. I guess being a new resident here it is going to be alot of trial and error until I can complete my garage and install the central heating unit. I have used TopCote in the past and it seems to do a very good job but like I said that was in Ct and this state fl is a whole new bunch of problems. Hope all is well and Merry Christmas to you.
later
Centaur76
I live close to Houston and have found that keeping the air moving with an electric fan helps. That, and lots of wax.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Centaur, I'll find Alison and send her to this thread. She moved to Florida (last year, I think?) and might have some ideas.
A few months ago, one of the mags ran a review of rust-prevention products using a pretty objective, and cleverly designed, method. I can't look for it this morning, but I'll try to find it for you this weekend. Like Dennis, I'm in the Great Northwest, but I have a woodstove that I fire up to keep the humidity down, so wax keeps things nice.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi again, Dennis. Your woodstove will help alot! You're north of me, so I don't know how much worse the temp problem is, but my woodstove has made a world of difference out in the shop. I keep a humidity/temp gauge out there, and it's quite gratifying to watch the humidity drop, drop, drop after the stove's been running for awhile. And, if I fire it up pretty much every day, the humdity stays low (low being, like, 50% or below?). I think because it drives the excessive moisture out/off of the objects in the shop.
Just wish I had a pellet stove (lazy). I'm pretty compulsive about keeping the chimney temp at 300 or above, even when the shop's warm, so that I'm burning clean.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Greetings Jamie -Our problem, or my problem up here in Skagit Co. is that I'm up the hill just above the Skagit valley. As the moisture starts to climb the hills to pass over the mountains, we get lots of humidity. On a day like today when it's almost shirtsleeve weather outdoors, the air warms up and holds tons of moisture. Inside the shop everything's still cold from lower temps of the nightime. Thus condensation sometimes amounts to actual beads of sweat on anything and everything inside the shop. Before we had the new heating system installed moving the boiler to the garage, we'd have standing water on the garage floor due to the condensation of moisture on the cold slab. I thought at first we had a high water table problem and tested the slab for water vapor transmission. Nothing was coming through the floor. It was all condensing from the warm humid air.I'm really eager to get the stove up and running. Had the roofer come and install the roof boot for the stove pipe but - him not being a stove installer and me being a neophyte with respect to wood stove installation, I'm having to have a heating outfit come out and "fix" the roof penetration. I could see there wasn't enough clearance around the pipe where it went through the roof sheathing but wasn't sure how to fix the problem. The heating guys will be reducing the 7" flue from the stove down to a 6" double wall stainless steel section where it penetrates the roof. A couple other things they're gonna take care of as well. Then I'll be able to fire the thing up proper.Lots more than you really wanted to know, I suppose.Have you found that the dry heat from the wood stove adversely affects your lumber stock? What about the transition from the shop to the permanent home for finished projects?...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Wow, you really have a challenge on your hands! I can't remember, is floor still a "bare floor" or do you have some mats or something laid down now? I'd be tempted to try some strategically located clamp-on lights at night or sump'in!
I don't think there are any problems with my lumber vis a vis the humidity in the shop. It's in a lumber rack on the long wall, and the stove is on the short wall, with the small fan directing the warm air low and toward the center of the shop space. The stove pipe gets real hot, of course, but it's far enough away to not cause problems. When I mounted the air scrubber, I made sure it wouldn't blow right onto the lumber rack.
The house humdity is (if I remember right) around 45%? (maybe 40) so it's close to the shop RH on a good day. I'm thinking the ability to keep the humdity down in the shop is a good thing for the lumber.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Whoa! Jamie!! What a slick idea - the flood lights.I've been using a double halogen construction light in the shop shining on the bench where I've been doing glue-ups to keep the temps up to something the glue will tolerate plus give the glue about 15sec in the nuke oven. Never thought about heating the machinery to keep it warm. That's all it will really take is to keep it at or above the temperature of the air so the surface of the cast iron is above the dew point.Thanks!!Forst Girl strikes again!! (hehe)...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I use the big halogen lights fairly often for glue-ups and even to keep the ol' body warm when I only need to be out there for 1/2 hour or so and it doesn't make sense to fire up the stove.
Might not even need halogens, which are pretty high wattage (although I have a couple that are 300W instead of 500W). A regular clamp-on (big silver reflector) 100W might work? Maybe not with your saturated air.
The other idea I've had is to rig up a regular light bult underneath a table. It'd probably be a pain though.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Greetings Jamie -I, too, have been using the lights (double 500 watter's on a stand) both for good lighting and .... radiant heat! (grin). Now for the piece de resistance .....A couple years ago I spied a small electric blanket, called a 'throw' on sale at Fred Meyer. Something like 15 bux or so. On a whim I bought it and have been using it as a blankey for my glue-ups. Not my idea, really, - someone mentioned it here quite some time ago.I wrap all the pieces up in the blanket and leave them for about half an hour. "wake" them up, glue them together (under the bright lights) and put 'em back to bed for a few hours. Along with 15 or seconds of the glue bottle in the shop nuke oven and my glue joints have been rock solid.By the way ... had an outfit come over today to install the double wall pipe through the roof for my wood stove. Finally got a chance to crank it up a notch. Man ...!! What a difference. Even with having a shop about as air tight as a fishing net it's 52 degrees in the far corner of the shop away from the stove. That's with no fan or anything. Can't wait to get the in-floor heating system hooked up. Know anyone that's done a retrofit heat exchanger on an old welded Fischer steel stove............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis, try contacting these people. They might be able to help. Or maybe send you to the right people. A friend of mine swears they hung the moon
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com
Migraine -Thanks for the referal - I had the heating guy that installed the boiler and radiant heating system in our house come out and take a look at what I have to start with. He's a pretty savvy guy and between us we designed a pretty nice system. Or what promises to be one.The loop heat exchanger for the stove is a no brainer as far as he's concerned. Then a large re-cycled hot water thank for mass heat storage. Thermostatic mixing valve to temper the water going into the floor tubing and re-circ to the heat storage when heat's not being requested but the system. Simple pump to circulate to the manifold (two loops in the floor) and all this filtered at the outflow from the tank(s) to prevent scale and other bad stuff that's inevitably in old hot water thanks from fouling the pump and controls. Of course there's an automatic air vent at the top of a loop to prevent pressure build-up and a pressure vessel situation. Air and water pressure out, nothing back in.Oh what a joy it will be to work on a warm floor!...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Like forest girl I have been using warming lights, in my case 250W infrared (clear) bulbs ($5) in clamp-type fixtures ($7) intended for brooding chicks that will take the high wattage. These give a nice warmth when working too, and light. The "red" IR lamps are more expensive, and who wants to work under red light? I put them on timers that run 5 AM to 10 AM I have a couple of rope like "gutter warmers" left over from when I lived up north, and considered wrapping them around the metal parts, but it seemed it wouldn't get heat to the parts that needed it.Oh, and regular waxing.merle
FG - Seeing your post reminded me that you asked about pellet stoves in this country, well I did some investigation and they are available and cost about 30% more than normal wood burners, however, the supply of pellets is limited to only a few outlets in CZ and none close to me, also they are expensive (Mrs. Losos does most of my translating and I can't get a definitive answer on HOW much more expensive) I haven't made a final decision but it looks like I'll go with the standard wood burner.
last ttime I hauled a load of stock back from the mill, the sawyer gave me a tour round his shop, pointing out the changes since last time. He'd installed an in line interceptor in his plumbed in DC ducts which directed any dust / chips into a pellet making gizmo that wasn't much bigger than the DC itself. Said he generated enough t heat the entire house, the shop (2 woodburners) and sell the excess for a small profit, figuring the machine would pay for itself in around a year. Blonde roots showed when I didn't think to catch the manufacturers name...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Wow! Now that is cool!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I've found that Boeshield works pretty good; better than Topcote.
I also use a breathable cover to prevent problems with the occassional drop of condensation from my metal roof (no insulation on the roof, just a layer of Tyvek).
The shop gets insulated this summer so that should prevent the condensation problem, when I have the whole summer off with pay! [a benefit my employer gives every 7 years.]
The other spray-on stuff I found that works pretty well is TFL-50. Don't recall who makes it. It's the stuff with the teflon. Makes for a nice slick surface as well. Supposed to be a "dry" lube product for such things as bicycle chains and stuff that shouldn't have an oil film that would attract and hold dust and dirt............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
for what it's worth-- I was told by someone who rebuilt equipment in Tampa and kept it there till it was sold-- what he used was talcum powder -- he said a saw table, for instance , could sit there indefinitly and not show any deteriation-- like I say --I was told this -- never tried it because my stuff doesn't get a chance to rust
I'm using a combination of 3 things. My tools are in an unheated garage shop in Michigan. Very humid in summer and not all that dry in the winter either.
1) Topcoat
2) Baby Powder applied with a chalk eraser after the Topcoat has dried. This isn't an original idea. Some magazine tip I'd saw. Thought I'd give it a try and it seems to help.
3) HTC tool covers. Other people make them - just be sure to get the breathable type material. The first 2 things were stopping 95% of the rust, but every couple of years I'd have to WD40 and steel wool the cast iron lightly. It wasn't until I started using the covers too, that I started getting zero rust problems.
I live just a bit north of you in Tallahassee. When I built my shop I insulated the walls and ceiling. On the advice of a neighbor I put down 3/4 plywood (sturdyboard) on the floors. I laid down a sheet of plastic vapor barrier and just screwed the ply to the concrete with Tapcon screws. I don't have much problem with rust at all. I don't have a/c or real heat. I use a big space heater a few times on the coldest days but the shop stays nice. Rarely gets hot and stays fairly warm in the winter.
By contrast, I was just at another buddies shop the other day and we quit working when all the big tools became covered with moisture. It almost ruined the plywood when I put it on the saw before I noticed the condensation. I was shocked when I touched the tablesaw and jointer and found them almost dripping with water. He said it happens all the time. His shop is uninsulated and the concrete floors are bare.
I have to think that my insulation and plywood floooring are making the difference. I do ( about twice a year) give the big tools a good wipe down with and abravise pad and a coat of paste wax but that's about it.
If you can do it, consider insulation and plywood flooring.
Good Luck, hugh
hi I have been woodworking since '86 first in the garage for16 yrs and in my new 30x60 since 2002 , live west of lAKELAND about 20 miles ( Lithia )and I must say that I have never had a serious problem with condensation-- I think the insulation is a factor because when there is insulation there is not the fluculation of the inside temp. there is less risk of condensation-- I hope that your new structure will solve the problem.. I am pretty sure that Alison doesn't have a problem-- she is in an old brick cigar factory --Centaur if you are into furniture would you like some info about the furniture show at the state fair in Feb 2005 ? It is a juried show and the judging is open to woodworkers-- let me know
Hey Vern
I would like to visit the show it could be cool. Can you send me some more info on it if you could. I just recently moved to Central Fl about 6 months ago and I am having some serious woodworking withdrawl. New England seems to have a much more involved woodworking community than Fl but since I just moved here Im a newbie. Thank you for the reply.
Thank You
Mike S. aka Centaur76
hi mike sorry I haven't got back to you but I got in late last nite and was tired-- any way welcome to sunny florida --I think that you will find many woodworkers-- there is a club in Orlando (Bob Kopeck I think he lives in Maitland would be a good contact) he is an excellant craftsman and has shown at the state fair -- the entry deadline just went by --Dec 17 --the pieces are judged Feb 6 2005(Sun ) 9:30 am by Fred Taylor Mr Taylor,who has established a name in most aspects of furniture both old and new -- the fair opens on the Feb 11 and runs thru Feb 21-- go to floriastatefair.com click on family living competions then on premium book [adobe] then on handcrafted furniture [page] this show started in 1986 and I have had something in it every year-- Best of Show two years and there are usually 600 and 800 thousand people attend course they all don't go thru the furniture exhibit but I have usually 8 or 9 hundred business cards picked up -- sure helps the rest of the year-- the five clubs on the west Florida coast man the woodworking shop we have there and there is always a couple out on the floor answering questions-- I will try to find someone you can talk to -- we encourage attendance at the judging because it is like a seminar and there is no cost but your time and a chance to meet a lot of woodworkers -- but in the meantime get your building finished and I think your moisture problem will solve itselfmaking sawdust
I live in central fl too. I found that a lot of wax (turtle brand for a car or furniture wax - doesn't make much difference) helps a lot. But I got the best results from using a window fan to blow air into my workshop and let it go out through the ridge vent.
If your interested there's a woodworkers guild in Orlando. Check out this site http://www.cfwg.org. We meet the 2nd Thursday of each month in south Orlando.
Dusty
Centaur,
I read all the way through the other posts to see if anyone does what I do: Kitty litter.
Not the clay stuff, the white crystals they sell in a clear bottle. We find it in the big grocery stores. It's just silica gel crystals, the same stuff they put in little packets for shipping tools and electronics.
I don't think it will work well for table tops and machinery, but I put some in each tool drawer in a small box or a little piece of nylon mesh (pantyhose) tied up with string or a zip tie. Another one, a little larger, can go inside machine cabinets, storage bins, cupboards, etc. I'm working on building as many drawers as I can to store hand tools, rather than hanging them on the wall. That way I can close them up with some silica.
When it's saturated, either toss it or dry it out in a low temp oven or place it in the direct sun for a day. It's not expensive and it comes in a screw lid plastic container so it stays dry until you use it.
Just make sure when you buy it that the contents list it as silica.
Regards,
dhb
Kitty litter, great idea! Thanks for the tip.
Yes, here in the Pacific NW, humidity is a real problem this time of year. On the local TV news last night, it said the current humidity was 100%, and it wasn't even raining at the time. We probably go for weeks without it dropping below 90%.
I would move to Nevada. Low humidity no rust. Sorry. I live in Nevada and do not experience the problems that you do. My dad lives in the pacific northwest where rust is a problem. Every time I go to his house I clean up his equipment and put on a coat of paste wax. It helps but is not the perfect answer.
I have a shop in the outerbanks of NC. As you can imagine the humidity is high year round. It is not insulated, has no AC and I use a small portable heater in the winter when necessary to bring the temp up to 60-70 degrees when I am working. I have no rust problems to speak of because I keep a dehumidifier running. I keep it set at about 35 percent humidity. You can also set it to run in constant cycles of either 3 hours on and 3 hours off , or 6 on and 6 off. Just go to Sears and pick one up and it will solve your problem. Put a tube through the wall and let it drain to the outside. After so many years of use it will break, just replace it when it goes bad. I keep my machine tops waxed but it is the dehumidifier that really is the key. Hope this helps. Doug
I just wanted to thank everyone for the great ideas. Im just trying to keep the rust off my tools until I can finish my garage then hopefully it wont be an issue. Living here has been a little bit of a change from Ct. Just trying to keep my investments in decent condition for awhile. Thanks everyone
later Centaur76
I live in Maine too, right on the coast, actually out on an ixland. I have been using the Boeshield for ten years now with good results.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Oh - and try to keep the tops of the machines dusted off. I've noticed that sawdust, even fine sanding dust absorbs moisture from the air and will make things even worse."
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I live in Maine, 15 miles from the coast, and the air is humid. I find if I keep the sawdust off my tablesaw table it doesn't develop rust nearly as much.
Wow Guys Thanks for all the cool advice.thanks
Centaur76
speaking of humidy
i'm wondering that if i hook up a dehumidfier to a box filled with rough lumber would it be faster to dry out than air drying or kiln drying
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled