Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 04, 2005 12:12am | #1

   Your list is pretty hetrogeneous.  General is generally the highest thought of of your list.   Delta perhaps a small step down from Powermatic. 

   As far as the eight inch jointer, the DJ-20 from Delta is probably the pick of the litter.  I have'nt researched the planers, but my DJ-20 was a top performer.  I gave it up only for a 16" jointer. 

1. 
   Brayden | Nov 04, 2005 02:11am | #2

   I appreciate the input.  I guess the reputation of Powermatic Equipment has been very good (in years past) but I have been reading a lot of negative commnets on the quality of the Powermatic 15S planer.  I didn't realize General had such a good reputation.  I have a Delta Unisaw and love it but I have probably read too much on the internet how Delta has declined in the last 10 years or so.

   Thanks Again for taking the time to respond

2. 
   Quartersawn | Nov 08, 2005 01:41am | #9

   You place Delta pretty high up your priority list.  Can I ask if you are comparing current products, or Delta machinery  that you may have owned for years?  In today's scheme of things, only in a Delta executive's dreams are they a front runner in the stationery power tool market.  Now Delta has a multi-tier product line that tells you from the get-go that some products most likely are intended just for the home hobbyist market.  Combine that with being bought and sold a few times in recent years, Delta should be looked at with a very skeptical eye (except for the domestically made Unisaw).  The days of Delta being synonymous with "quality woodworking equipment" are in the increasingly distant past.

1. 
   mike4244 | Nov 08, 2005 01:51am | #10

   My feelings exactly on delta tools of recent vintage.

   mike

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 08, 2005 06:17am | #11

   Delta has had multi-tier product lines for decades.  I placed Delta third in a list that didn't include any of the obviously superior manufacturers like Felder or Mini-Max or etc.  You have to compare in similar categories.  In cabinet saws, General 350, Powermatic 66, and Unisaw are in the same category, probably rank in about that order, and while one might argue about value for money, I'd still say they are likely to be of higher quality than the others on the list, which are basically knockoffs of those brands.  It's true fit and finish is improving relatively for the other brands, but I don't think it has crossed over.  This can be pretty well judged in the stores but reliability not so well.  As far as current production versus old production, the designs haven't changed.  Parts are still available for my 40's era Unisaw.  Mine is a bit heavier, but the new ones I seen working do just fine as far as I could tell from a small sample. 

   Its also true that all brands go through quality control problems, but there is just no way to tell about that without access to systematic data.  Since none of these companies, or their competition are public companies this data is just not available.  Perhaps someone has a good guess about market share, but I'd bet no one has the full picture on warranty issues.  People generalize much too much from a small number of self reported complaints or kudos. 

   I'd place the DJ-20 high on the list of 8" planers I owned one for some years, and paid attention todifferent brands I saw in other shops.   The Delta 14" bandsaw is superior to most of the 14" knockoff competitors.  The real quality gap is in 16+ bandsaws, where Delta doesn't have such a strong entry.  I've been looking at some of these, since there are reasonable upgrade paths from my Delta 14".  I don't have any good opinions on current lathes.  My 60's era 12" Heavy Duty lathe hasn't been made for some years and I'm not in the market since a meaningful upgrade that would let me do more things is way out of reach financially.   Similarly I can't tell you anything about planers, since I jumped straight to a Hammer 16" jointer/planer combo from my Delta 12".   I don't pay as much attention to machines that I'm not at least considering. 

   And, these are just my opinions, based on a limited number of observations, as are the opinions of all the posters here.   

    

1. 
   Quartersawn | Nov 08, 2005 10:32pm | #12

   Surely you must be aware that virtually all of Delta's line is now produced in the far east.   I think they still assemble some Unisaws in Tennessee.  How can you say that the designs haven't changed?  I thinks its a little misleading to be recommending equipment that is no longer made (here).  Not to say that Delta product can't compete with it's far eastern peers, but today's Delta isn't the quality of a 1940's machine.  Could comment on why you felt the need to move up from the 8" jointer to a 15", but still recommend the 8"? 

   I agree in general with your evaluation of the band saws. 

   To the original poster, I have been much more satisfied with my Jet equipment than with anything I have from Delta.  Powermatic today is just a dressed up version of Jet, but the features and finish are probably worth the difference in cost.  Just the nice milling on the cast iron is worth the extra for Powermatic.

    

   Edited 11/8/2005 2:43 pm ET by quartersawn

1. 
   Brayden | Nov 09, 2005 12:24am | #13

   Thanks for the observations.  I don't expect everyone to agree but it is good to hear the discussion whether it is based on limited exposure to the equipment or a more broad exposure.

   Does anyone know anything about the new Oliver 10 Jointer.  I've been seeing more adverisements on it.  It apears to be built like a tank but I don't know about quality.  I know the old Oliver equipment is well thought of but haven't heard a word from anyone on the new.  I guess it might be because a 10" jointer is their smallest jointer and cost about $2,000!

   Thanks Again for the discussion!!!!!!

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 09, 2005 04:18am | #14

   The designs of the unisaw and the bandsaw haven't changed in substance.  Where those designs are executed is irrelevant.  It is the specifications of materials and tolerances that count, as well has how quality control is implemented.  When Delta moved off shore they have continued to use the same drawings, and didn't select features of a basic cabinet saw from column A reverse engineered from the long time North American machines  They may well have done that on some of the lower end tools.   I have not said that Delta makes the best light commercial tools--if you pay attention I put them in third place of a list that excluded the European makers. 

   I'm not aware of any market share data--I'd not expect to see it since all the relevant companies are private, but wouldn't be at all surprised to find that Delta retains the number one spot in cabinet saws and 14" bandsaws. 

   I sold my DJ-20 for the larger jointer because I regularly work with boards wider than 12".   If I could afford it I'd have a 20" jointer for that same reason.  I'm probably healthier without it, since occasionally I get a little exercise dimensioning boards wider than 16".  Within the size limitation, it was an excellent machine.  I wish my Hammer had as good a fence, for example.  I don't have room for a stand alone 16" jointer, so chose the jointer planer combination to save space. 

    

   Edited 11/8/2005 8:25 pm ET by SteveSchoene

   Edited 11/8/2005 8:28 pm ET by SteveSchoene

2. 
   DennisS | Nov 04, 2005 05:56am | #3

   Brayden -

   OK, so as woodworkers we're not dealing with machinist precision here. None the less I guess I'm picking fly poop out of pepper with this comment on my DJ20.

   Whenever I move the fence in or out I always check it for square to the outfeed table. It never is without being tweaked a bit. That's not so uncommon I suppose but what's frustrating is, I'll stand any one of my three Bridge City Tools squares up to the fence, look "through" for any light shining between the blade of the square and the fence and adjust accordingly. Then when I move the square to the other end of the outfeed table .... I'm practically blinded by the light shining through the wedge shaped crack.

   Well, that's a gross exaggeration to be sure but in any event, when you go shopping for your jointer, take along a square you can trust. Try squaring the fence to the table, checking at both ends of the outfeed table. If (or when) you find one that's acceptably close, get the serial number and tell the sales person that's the tool you want! (grin)

1. 
   Brayden | Nov 04, 2005 04:12pm | #4

   Dennis

   I have the same problem with the 6" Powermatic Jointer that I currently have.  As you said it may be splitting hairs but if a person is willing to spend the money to get a new quality piece of equipment they want it to work flawlessly.  That is probably expecting too much but if you don't have fairly high expectations you tend to settle for less.

    

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 04, 2005 10:34pm | #5

   If you have twist in the fence you should be seeing what Delta will do.  It can be machined out--and a lot more easily than if it were the beds that were off. 

3. 
   termites | Nov 06, 2005 03:01am | #6

   I posted a question about the Powermatic 15S and didn't get any hits.  My advice, buy it and post a review of the machine here in Knots.  That way I'll know whether or not to get one. :) 

1. 
   Brayden | Nov 06, 2005 04:29am | #7

   If I end up with one I will be glad to citique it on this site.

    

   Thanks

4. 
   Toolfreak | Nov 07, 2005 10:59pm | #8

   I bought my Powermatic 64A 6" jointer a few months ago and I did not have to do anything to it during setup, it was set perfectly and I have used it several times and it works better than the other jointer I had which was a Delta. I also have an older Powermatic scroll saw that has ran for years and it is is perfect shape, no problems. I can only tell you that I have spent alot of money on tools over the years and in my opinion Powermatic is one of the best investments I have made. I plan on getting a table saw and it will either be the 66 or the new PM2000.

   Mike Francis

   - Toolfreak