Replies

1. 
   tsproul | May 11, 2004 10:19pm | #1

   It all depends on the construction and expectations. Will you use wooden glides or allow the drawer to run on runners and kickers? Or will you use metal slides? How long do you want the drawers to last? How much use will they see?

   Heavy use with either of the first 2 drawer mechanisms will cause the drawers to become sloppy relatively quickly.

   Soft maple, alder or birch are relatively inexpensive woods that would contrast well with the walnut front and wear much better than poplar. Whatever wood you choose...if you have wood sliding on wood, be sure to wax the surfaces to promote easier operation as well as longer life.

   Tim
1. 
   bones | May 11, 2004 11:10pm | #2

   How would you respond if the slides are metal and still wanted to contrast the dovetails?

1. 
   tsproul | May 11, 2004 11:22pm | #3

   poplar is fine for use with metal slides, imo....the drawer sides don't have any wear issues as the metal or plastic bearings take all the abuse. Poplar is plenty strong enough, as long as the thickness is enough.

   If using poplar and you don't like the green tint that is found in many tulip poplar boards, expose the drawers, after assembling and gluing, to sunlight for about an hour or so, rotating the drawer so all sides get exposed. The green will turn brown of the corresponding shade. Dark green turns dark brown....slight green tint turns slight brown tint.Tim

2. 
   BOBABEUI | May 12, 2004 03:14pm | #13

   Tim,

   Thanks for your reply. The drawer will be running on poplar glides and kickers, no metal slides for this 18th century reproduction. The plans for the desk called for poplar as the secondary wood... and I have plenty of the stuff.. I would hate to use it if does not wear well..

2. 
   DougF | May 11, 2004 11:30pm | #4

   I agree with Tsproul regarding avoiding poplar in a wood-of-wood application.  I use poplar for all of my cabinet dovetailed draws using metal guides.  For secondary furniture wood, I use soft maple.  Poplar certainly dovetails easily and causes less dulling of the cutters blades.  Poplar can be demensionally unstable with respect to humidity and I have experienced problems when allowing wider dovetailed pieces to lay unassembled for very long.  Depending on where you are located, many times soft maple cost can be near that of poplar.  Most times I purchase 4/4 or 5/4 and resaw it to provide a finshed 7/16 draw sides. 

   Doug 

1. 
   tsproul | May 12, 2004 01:07am | #5

   Doug,

   another way to get good drawer stock is to purchase 8/4 boards....if you rumble through the plain sawn stacks (obviously stack'm again when through) you'll invariably find a good quantity of QS or rift sawn boards....resaw into 1/2 inch or so thick drawer stock.Tim

3. 
   joinerswork | May 12, 2004 01:48am | #6

   Bob,

   Poplar was the secondary wood  (drawer parts, backing) of choice for  18th and early 19th century cabinetmakers in Pennsylvania.  It will hold up fine.  You won't notice any wear in your lifetime under normal use.  In a heavily weighted drawer getting constant use (file cabinet, kitchen silverware drawer) any wood drawer sides on wood bearers will wear.  It could be argued that a less dense wood like pine or poplar will weigh less/ wear less than a denser, heavier wood.  I've heard it said that the resin in pine drawer sides acts as a natural lubricant, reducing wear.

   Keeping wooden drawer runners and sides waxed will minimize wear, I always wax the drawers on my pieces before delivery (hardly ever wax my own tho!)

   All-

   By the way, what is the difference between a drawer and a draw? What do you call it, where are you from?  You say potaytoe, I say pahtahta...

   Regards,

   Ray

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/11/2004 7:12 pm ET by joinerswork

1. 
   SgianDubh | May 12, 2004 06:25am | #9

   Good question Ray. As far as I know they are two words with quite distinct meanings. A drawer describes a wooden, plastic, metal, box type structure which holds things and fits into openings in pieces of furniture. It might also describe the writer of a cheque or the composer of a will or other (legal) document.

   To draw means the act of drawing, or to pull, drag, haul, attract, derive, compose, sports result, etc.. It means things like draw conclusion, draw curtains, the game's a draw, draw a gun, draw a picture, draw a bowled ball into a curve as it passes through the air-- cricket, baseball, football, etc., draw a bucket of water, draw up a form of words, etc..

   I wouldn't use terms like drawer a gun, drawer a bucket of water, or drawer a cheque except as a typo or brain fart. If I could be bothered I might consult a dictionary but I'm in a hurry and I think I've got it about right.

   Personally, I see nothing wrong with using softish woods like poplar for drawer sides, especially if the sides have (traditional) slips at the bottom which increases contact surface area. If the sides are softer than the material that forms the runners and kickers they'll bear the brunt of the wear and need repaired first.

   I'd rather work on and repair easily accessible drawer parts than have to work on hard to reach and awkward internal cabinet structures. Slainte.

   RJFurniture

   Edited 5/11/2004 11:27 pm ET by Sgian Dubh

1. 
   joinerswork | May 12, 2004 03:04pm | #12

   Sgian,

   I also remember an episode of Groucho Marx's old TV show, "You Bet Your Life", where his two contestants were artists, and he referrred to them as a "pair of drawers".

   Actually, I've heard people use the word "draw"  to refer to what I call a drawer, seen it here on the message bd too, I believe.  Just wondering what the origin is of that usage-is it the "correct" (stiff upper lip) British English?  Or is it a high falutin' New England-ism?  Pretty sure it ain't from the South!  We set in cheers and watch smoke come out the chimbly, but we store our drawers in drawers!

   Cheers,

   Ray 

1. 
   SgianDubh | May 14, 2004 03:01am | #17

   Ah Ray, but then I see the word route written in woodworking magazines and forums when they author meant to write rout.

   Just because they're pronounced the same in American English-- which they're not in British English, they're not at all the same. 

   Similarly people write suit of furniture where they really mean suite of furniture. A suit of furniture is a meaningless term, except that it identifies the writer as either hurried, brain farted or ignorant of the proper terminology.

   People are quite forgiving when it comes to forums because we all type in a hurry and cock ups happen, but it irritates the hell out of me to see those words route and suit used incorrectly in magazines, along with muntins described as mullions or even spelt muttons.

   That's enough irritating misspellings and inappropriate word usage for one night, ha, ha.  Slainte.RJFurniture

1. 
   joinerswork | May 14, 2004 03:58pm | #18

   Sgian,

   Drifting off topic here a bit,  how 'bout chaise lounge for chaise longue?  Guess you Brits gnash your teeth when we Yanks refer to a rebate as a rabbet (or worse, a rabbit).  Interesting when a word or phrase from one language gets adopted into another and changes into something else in the process.  "Dandylion" used to be "dent de lion" .  I think suite sounds a little too sissified for most folks, so we say suit instead.  Dunno how an adjustable spanner became a monkey wrench though!

   The other thing that I see is the substitution of one word for, as you've pointed out, a similar sounding one.  I see this all the time in our local newspaper, and it irritates me to no end.  Most common are "hone in on"  and "pour over", along with the inevitable there /their/ they're.  A local talk show host always says rather when he means whether. Along with ignorance, I blame this on careless writing, and a reliance on the spell check function of our computers.   I once saw a menu offering broiled venusian  (no, it wasn't a star trek convention, they were serving venison)!

   Still we manage to make ourselves understood...mostly.

   Regards,

   Ray   

2. 
   SgianDubh | May 16, 2004 01:09am | #19

   Rabbet or rebate, Ray? Same thing to me, and malapropisms can be funny too. Apart from obvious spelling howlers which can be irritating, fortunately English is a forgiving mongrel language.

   I have a feeling American English is closer in form to 16'th and 17'th century English than modern British English is. I heard that somewhere but don't know if it's true. Anyway, as you say so long as we can mostly make ourselves understood that's the main thing. Slainte.RJFurniture

2. 
   BOBABEUI | May 12, 2004 03:19pm | #14

   Ray,

   Thanks for your reply.. Funny, the desk that I am building is a 18th century Pennsylvania piece.  By the way I am a lifetime New Jersey native, soon to be re-transplanted in Charlotte NC, it ought to be fun!

4. 
   DougU | May 12, 2004 04:58am | #7

   I think is was Ray that brought it up, secondary wood in antiques.  I collect antiques and I have some that are in the neighborhood of two hundred years old, with popular drawer sides. Matter of fact its quit common.

   I dont think I have any pieces that the drawer sides have failed for any reason.

   Doug

5. 
   LD | May 12, 2004 05:03am | #8

   I have used a lot of poplar for drawer sides with no problems that I'm aware of.  I use a teflon tape on top of the wooden slide.  Works like a dream and the tape should last my life time.

   Of course I'm old.

   Dave

6. 
   BobSmalser | May 12, 2004 07:01am | #10

   Tulip is a traditional wood for the purpose you state.  No shortage of antiques out there with those drawer sides still in excellent condition.

   Now, if you want to do a real heavy drawer, you can simply edgeglue a strip of oak or maple on the bottom of the side.

   Here's one:

   View Image 

   Also had a wild hair once over 3 decades ago and made up some drawers with Red Cedar sides edged with oak....and they are holding up perfectly:

    

   View Image

   “When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work as our descendants will thank us for; and let us think...that a time is to come when those (heirlooms) will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, ‘See! This our father did for us.’ “ --John Ruskin.

1. 
   tsproul | May 12, 2004 08:22am | #11

   Uncle.   Uncle....   UNCLE!

   I give.

   Perhaps my wording made it sound as if poplar would fall apart after one opening.....

   On the flip side...using a softer wood for drawer sides can be a good thing.  The drawer will wear out and in the process do little, if any damage to the runner and face frame/carcass....drawers are much easier to rebuild than a carcass.Tim

2. 
   BOBABEUI | May 12, 2004 03:22pm | #15

   Bob,

   Thanks for your help.. Using a harder wood at the bottom edge is in the great idea..

7. 
   fdampier5 | May 13, 2004 10:49pm | #16

   why not use black walnut?

     I get my drawers sides for near free prices.. what I do is buy from a sawmill direct.. they can't sell thin pieces of black walnut so they tradionally toss it into the shredder, or put it in the slab wood pile.

     thin pieces are pieces less than 4/4 thick.   Since mother nature isn't very standard when she makes trees almost every tree will have a piece or two of thin stock.. it can vary from 3/8 thick to 7/8 thick..

     I go down to my local sawmill with my pickup and get enough to just about drag my bumper  all the way home. It costs me $30.00

        I then go home and sticker it up based roughtly on it's thickness.  In other words I put all the 1/2 thick stuff on one layer and all the 5/8ths inch stuff on the next layer etc..

     since it's less than 4/4 it doesn't take too long to dry.   I can use the 3/8ths stuff in a few weeks and the 1/2 inch stuff in about 6 weeks..   (depends on the humidity etc. )