Hey everyone, I am looking for a good comparison and some advice on a PM2000 and a Grizzly G0690/G0691. I am in the market for an upgrade from my Bosh, and the PM is on sale this weekend. I like the PM, casters, riving knife design, and the fact that i can order it with the Rout-R-Lift, but I like the price of the Grizzly. I will say my main concern is quality over price. All in all the Griz looks like a nice machine, and has a Lesson motor in it. Any advice is apprecated.
Thanks again,
Fredg
Replies
I cannot comment on the G0691 but I recently bought the PM2000. It isn't cheap. But the riving knife and blade guard are definitely positives for me. I am more comfortable and confident using the riving knife than my old saw without. The start/stop switch is great - no fumbling to turn the saw off, just bump it with my leg. I liked the caster system when setting up the saw - could move it around with ease. But since I have it in place, have not had to crank down the wheels and move it. But if I ever do, I will be thankful as the saw weighs over 600 lbs. The machine is solid too. It runs very smooth with little vibration. The handwheels to raise/lower and tilt are a pleasure and the dust collection guard under the blade really does pull a lot of dust off the blade. I could probably think of more features that are a joy vs my 25 year old contractors saw. Oh, one thing. While not mentioned in the manual (Powermatic is supposed to be updating it)running it on a 30 amp breaker is recommended as the saw was spiking to 50-60 amps upon start up. I was running on a 20 amp and the breaker kept tripping. A quick change to a 30 amp fixed that - my wiring already met code.
Fred:
I do not own either one as yet, but I plan to buy the grizzly G0690 next week. It has a riving knife and blade guard and it is supposedly smooth as silk with little vibration. It passed the nickel test. It does not have built in casters, but for the savings in money I'll buy the caster system that attaches to the base. I had to do that with my Powermatic band saw and it works well.
With Grizzly you aren't paying for the dealer to make a profit as well as the manufacturer. I'm not certain if the Grizzly is just as good as the PM, but it may be. I researched them both and I think the grizzly is a very good buy, especially since the price is an introductory price and will probably go up. Because of these factors I don't believe you'll sacrifice quality for price.
I'm a dentist, so woodworking is my hobby, I'm not a pro. Get some more opinions from the pros and make the choice that works for you.
Good luck, Jim
I can't imagine not being happy with either. The PM costs quite a bit more but does have a 30" deep table vs 27" of the Griz, plus the built in wheels.
Good luck!
Thanks for the advice guys, I have decided to go with the Grizzly. I have been told their customer service is really good. I am big on customer service and I figure saving at least $1000 bucks I can get all the accessories I want for the on sale price of the PM2000. Maybe even get a jointer! Also I have a Laguna band saw and am very pleased with the quality and customer service, word on the street is the Grizzly is the same as the Laguna platnum series table saws. I can even pick up the Griz and not have to pay shipping. Woohoo!
Thanks again everyone,
Fredg
Regarding the G0690 and Laguna being from the same factory....per Grizzly's owner:"...thank you for the insight. The apples to apples comparison is correct to that extent I would like to say that the Grizzly G0690 has the following:1) Quick release riving knife.
2) Quick release motor guard.
3) Quick release splitter assembly.
4) Easy glide fence system.
5) Knurled knobs for adjusting fence.
6) Nylon runners inside fence head assembly.
7) T-Square type fence system.
8) Set screw holding table insert down, with adjustable screws inside.
9) 3 H.P. Leeson motor.
10) A precision hardened and ground polished cast iron top that is, AT THE VERY LEAST, equal to the saw you are comparing it to.What the Grizzly does not have is excessive hype and a high price tag. The lower Grizzly price comes from the fact that we have a much larger buying (and selling) power and sell many times more saws than the competitor. We try to pass the savings onto the consumer and also try to provide exemplary service. Oh, by the way, it is the same saw coming from the same factory, made of the same components. However, we do have several engineers that check out these saws at the factory before they are shipped to our warehouses in the USA."
I am sure that most woodworkers would be, happy to own, and be able to do great work with either saw. I am also a fan of both companies but I don’t think that it is fair to say similarly speced products from that same factory are equivalent.
<!----><!----> <!---->IMO there is much more that goes into producing products than the factory that produced them. I have witnessed similar products being made in the same factory with vastly different results.
One company had their own quality people based in the factory and followed a comprehensive test plan than included incoming components, tolerances, finished products, and many other steps in between. The other company did their testing in the U.S. I bet that you can guess which company produced the higher quality product.
<!----> <!---->It is up to the consumer which product is a better value product for their needs.
"I am also a fan of both companies but I don’t think that it is fair to say similarly speced products from that same factory are equivalent".
<!----><!---->"<!---->IMO there is much more that goes into producing products than the factory that produced them. I have witnessed similar products being made in the same factory with vastly different results". FD
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Even though I agree it does open up a can of worms. I have been over both the Laguna and Grizzly TS's mentioned when they were sitting about 60 yards from each other and I know the answer to.. are they indeed the same machines as the specs are similar. But.. I also agree that...
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"It is up to the consumer which product is a better value product for their needs". FD
I happened to see both those saws last August at the IWF Show more or less side by side. IWF and AWFS are the only two shows Grizzly attend and at this point, Laguna does make some of the smaller local shows but only selected cities.
So in the majority of cases the where the "customer" can't go to the factory and watch assembly to determine which does or which doesn't monitor quality control (and neither may for that matter)... and since in most cases the "customer" can't go to California to see the Laguna or Seattle.. Missouri or Pennsylvania to see the Griz... just how do they determine which is the better value for their needs?
Not a simply question nor is there a simple answer IMO. I am not going to make a comparison of what I did observe for both saws as I was not ask to do so. But.. I will add that Papa Griz does have the purchasing clout of larger volume purchases.. sales.. lower over-head in transport.. etc.
The advantage to the point I personally believe he is in a position that Home Depot and Lowes were in years ago and especially if the economy stays stagnant.. to drive the majority of smaller.. lower volume companies (mom & pop hardware stores in the case of the Box stores) off the market.
We the customer are looking for the cheapest price of comparative quality. We cannot in most cases go compare so the majority rely on the word of those that will tell of their experience on the inter-net. Most of those that purchased and are happy with the machine did not do a personal comparison outside of specs.. price and shipping.
Start a thread about which BS to buy and the majority of responses will tell you they have the Grizzly 0513 x2 17" and it is wonderful. But.. they didn't make a physical comparison in the large majority of cases as there are other machines as good or better but at a higher price due to the other companies can't sell there comparable saw and match the price Papa Griz can put it on the market and to your door for.
The way we purchase something has changed IMO. I don't have time to debate if that is good or bad.. I just simply think it has changed because of the inter-net and over time... we may be looking at limited sources for the most part to purchase WW machines from in the future. The companies that had the clout going into this economic situation we are in will have the upper hand at survival.
Strictly my opinion and a few of my inner thoughts on a Sunday morning. If you have comments on them address them to All as I don't have days to spend on the computer debating the issue personally.
Everyone have a good day...
Sarge..
Edited 5/17/2009 11:18 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 5/17/2009 11:20 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
I think you hit the nail on the head. I also think once you make a purchase that experience will either lead to another one, or sour you completly. I also feel that with the power of the internet, a bad experience will kill you as a supplier. I started with the Griz Table saw and the first was damaged on delivery (shippers fault) I rejected and Grizz's cs was fantastic. By the AM the following day I had another one on the way and follow-up after the second one arrived. Class act, and it led to my 17" BS purchase and my horizontal boring machine, and my 12" jointer ... You get the picture. BTW the next will be a nice big planer, that will in all likelyhodd be green as well. Don't get me wrong though, low $$ will not always win me. I have Lie-Nielsen planes and a lot of other green tools (Festool), that are not cheap. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I have the 20" Yorkcraft I payed $1020 for Bones.. Excellent planer and every component is interchangeable with the 20" Griz. The difference is mine is white. I also have a Bridgewood Industrial floor mortiser I payed $800 for that every component is interchange-able with the $2200 Griz with the exception the Griz is 3 phase with a 3 HP motor and mine is 1 HP.
1 HP will deliver a 1 1/2" mortise chisel bit with ease so I am not sure why Griz chose to go with 3 HP even though I understand the 3 phase as it is for basically industry. Probably the same reason for the 3 HP even though I consider it over-kill in this particular case.
Back to the hutch...
Sarge..
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