Replies

1. 
   JohnWW | Jan 21, 2008 10:19pm | #1

   I would contact the epoxy's manufacturer to see if they approve of its use for air systems, as near as I can make out it is for water only. Air systems create much more stress on the fittings and have safety concerns that don't exist for water piping. I couldn't track down a web site for the manufacturer, if it is on the packaging could you give me their web address?

   Another problem that I foresee is that the epoxy joints will take hours to harden to the point that they would not be damaged if they were disturbed, building a system would take forever if you have to wait for each joint to harden an hour or more before you can add the next fitting and length of pipe. I also suspect that the epoxy would easily be as demanding of time and skill to use as soldering.

   If I were doing this I would use conventional soldered copper for the joints, and soldering copper is an easily learned skill. If you need some pointers on working with copper get back in touch with me.

   John White

   John White

1. 
   medlilch | Jan 23, 2008 08:33am | #2

   John,
   Thank you for your reply. I, too, could not track down Cardel Industries. But I did find an equivalent product made by Super Glue Corporation: http://www.supergluecorp.com/According to the literature that I read it takes 24 hours to completely cure, an hour to handle. My system will consist of several vertical assemblies, which can be assembled in parallel and then joined to horizontal pieces as they are hung, connected in place and left to dry. So, I don't think the amount of time will be inordinate. In regard to your suggestion of calling the manufacturer, I did just that. I called their 800 number at 7 AM PST. I was told by a company representative that super glue corporation's copper-bond can handle up to 175 psi. My compressor 'maxs-out' at 120 psi. Unless I'm ignorant to another potential issue, I think I'll be trying the epoxy solution. Thanks again for responding to my question. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and suggestions.

1. 
   JohnWW | Jan 23, 2008 07:01pm | #3

   I got in touch with the Super Glue people and asked some very specific questions.  First of all it was designed only for water systems:

   "Pacer Technology/Super Glue Corporation Copper-Bond Epoxy Adhesive (80583) is a unique 2-part epoxy system, which was developed specifically to join copper tubing and fittings for water systems."

   The site does mention the 175 psi pressure rating, but again specifically for water systems.  If a water system leaks or if a fitting blows off there is no damage other than from the water.  If a fitting fails in a compressed air system the pieces fly off at bullet speed, an entirely different scenario.

   Also air systems have oil and possibly other contaminants in the piping that might break down the adhesive over time, along with vibration and stresses that don't occur in water systems.

   Their web site does not mention using the glue for compressed air systems, but it does mention using it for oxygen and natural gas which is absolutely illegal in any jurisdiction, a fire would cause the joints to fail at 400 degrees allowing the oxygen or gas to add to the fire.  All gas and oxygen systems must be able to resist temperatures up to the melting point of the pipe.

   I asked their tech about using the epoxy for anything other than water and they said any other use must be approved by local authorities because they had not tested or proven the adhesive safe for any other application.

   Bottom line is that there is no information that suggests that epoxy is safe for compressed air systems, I wouldn't do it.

   Their final comment: "Users of any products described in the data sheet have the responsibility to determine the suitability for their particular use thereof, and Pacer relies upon such users to adopt all necessary precautions to ensure the protection of property and persons against hazards involved in the use thereof."<!----><!----><!---->

   John White 

   Edited 1/23/2008 11:08 am ET by JohnWW

1. 
   medlilch | Jan 24, 2008 08:07am | #5

   John,
   You arguments are compelling. The down side risks are much greater than my perceived ease of application. Solder it will be. Again, thank you for pointing out the risks involved, especially the ballistic possibilities. For the other reader that asked why copper it is solely my preference. I've been taking classes at a fine woodworking school in Anaheim, CA, and it has a copper air system throughout the school. Friends and acquaintances who are welders, mechanics, and every-day hobbyists use copper. It is a preference. Also, I'm willing to try something new, like many of you, but not in the face of so many unknowns and potential risks. Thanks for your question.

2. 
   GDH2 | Jan 23, 2008 07:24pm | #4

   medlilch -I'm curious -
   Why do you want to use copper? (It's expensive in today's market)
   Why don't you want to solder? (it's pretty easy)FWIW, I personally would NOT use any questionable system on air pipe fittings. But I have run a car repair shop with a 60 gallon compressor, had lots of hoses burst (although never the steel pipe), and never had much sense of the sudden release of pressure being very dangerous. But I must point out that the hoses would certainly whip around and there weren't any 1/2 ounce fittings (like the copper connectors) to get launched.