I need to plane some birch and walnut down to less than 1/8″, maybe 3/32 if possible. (Veneer is too thin for me). I am thinking of securing the stock with double stick tape to keep it from rattling around. Does anyone out there have a better solution?
Stig.
Replies
A method that works for me is to lay the wood to be planed on a router pad. Light cuts! You might think that the deflection of the pad under pressure from planing would cause some inaccuracies such as bowing but it seems to work well. The double stick tape solution works but it's tough to separate the wood from the bench.
The double sided tape may not be necessary, and you run the risk of leaving gunk on the wood, or (worse), if the tape is unevenly placed, you could get high spots in the wood that get planed too thin. Done right, using the tape should be fine.
It could be easier, though.
Maybe I'm tempting trouble, but I find that holding the stock on a thicker plywood "sled" and feeding it into the planar works fine without the tape, since the rollers press down and hold the thinner stock in place. I also tend to continue to help feed the sled and stock into the planar to avoid either slipping.
You can also just fix the plywood sled into place, in effect raising the bottom of the planar and making it possible to plane down stock to nothing. Of course, the stock will shatter before this happens...
holding the stock on a thicker plywood "sled" and feeding it into the planar works fine without the tape, since the rollers press down and hold the thinner stock in place. I also tend to continue to help feed the sled and stock into the planar to avoid either slipping.
If the veneer catches and starts getting chewed, a high-speed ejection of material is a real and dangerous possibility. Planers can and do kick back with a vengeance!My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
The way I do it is to take a piece of plywood or mdf and make it a little wider than the stock to be planed and longer by an inch or so then I glue a strip of stock 3/16 thick across the plywood at one end. this act as a support as the wood is planed so that it will not slide off the plywood sled. I just did 12 strips 5" wide by 18" long for drawer dividers. Kept them about .030 over 3/16 and then ran them through my Performax sander to make them a smooth 3/16" with no further sanding required. I have done this many times over the years.
I'm not sure if this method is for your needs, but here is how I do it. I have made chess boards and pieces ,I make my own veneer. After bandsawing a 3/32" slices I use hot hide glue spread evenly but thin on a mdf sled. I glue the smooth side of the veneer to the mdf and send it thru the planer with the lightest cuts possible. It takes four passes to get down to 1/16". I have made about 50 boards in the past 10 years, probably splintered about four or five pieces this way. When done planing, I heat the strips with a heat gun, prying up at the same time with a 2" putty knife.
Carpet tape did not work for me,too much give I suppose. Carpet tape may work on you, I tried it the first time. Splintered several pieces that way.
mike
Mike - thank You ever so much.
I know that your suggestion will work, it makes sense. Some other guys gave me tips a bit same as yours. They were all good but I shall try your idea on Saturday, day after tomorrow.
The item about hot hide glue stops me in my tracks a bit. I do not have a hot pot for the glue, neither do I have the hide glue. Is there some ready made hide glue that I can use. I will look around tomorrow. But, if you have time, please help me with that glue item. Thanks again.
Stig.
The hot hide glue is a dandy idea and certainly safer than my suggestion.
You don't need a glue pot--I use hide glue often and found a way to do it without a glue pot. I mix the dry pearls with water the night before in an old jar. To heat, I place it in a pot with water slightly higher than the glue inside the jar. I heat this on the stove at low heat (on my stove, between "Low" and "1" where "10" is max high). In the water I place a food thermometer that reads pretty accurately between 70F and 240F. I watch the temp climb slowly up to 140. When at 140, I take the pot down to the shop and use the glue. Having enough water in the pot will keep the glue near 140 for 5 or so minutes. Then the pot goes back on the stove.
Maybe someday Santa will bring me a glue pot, but this works well enough.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
You don't need a fancy electric gluepot, I use a small Rival crockpot that cost about $9.00. I put the glue in a small can ,add water to the can, and 1 1/2 to 2 " of water in the crockpot. I put a candy thermometer in the water, so I do not overheat the glue.
The crockpot comes with a glass lid, I removed the knob, cut a plywood disk for a lid. Bored a hole for the thermometer and a larger hole for the brush.I buy ground glue in quart cans online from Woodworkers Supply.
If you want to try it immediately, get several packets of unflavored Jello, supposed to be the same thing. I haven't tried it myself, give it a try on scrap and see how it works.
mike
My MiniMax planer takes stock down to 1/8". With stock that has any kind of figure, I use a drum sander to go this thin. Bill
The planning method that thin leaves me concerned for safety of myself and my machine.
I recently had to make curved drawer fronts for a custom cabinet by gluing up multiple pieces of 1/16th thin stock. What worked the easiest and safest was by resawing pieces of 8/4 down to 3/32 and then running them through a drum sander, I could get the pieces down to as thin as paper ( or any size in-between).
Edited 1/21/2006 6:39 pm ET by pwcww
I've successfully planed over 50 cherry strips on my Powermatic Model 15 planer, down to 1/10" (they were 2" wide), with about a 90% success rate. My method calls for placing a 5/8" thick piece of melamine-coated mdf atop the rollers (reduces sniping and when waxed, helps move the strips along) and putting the machine into the low feed gear before I start to feed the pieces in. I pre-rip the strips to approximately 1/8" and pay careful attention to the grain of the strips, to minimize tear-out.
Going that thin leaves you with the risk of the planer smashing the material or kicking back at you. Instrument makers tend to plane one side of the stock, rip down oversize then abrasive plane (i.e. drum sand) to thickness or use a special strip thicknessing tool (fundamentally a spoke plane cutter held in a jig over a flat bed- illustrated in one of Robert Wearing's books). Can't believe the risks some people are willing to take.
Scrit
"Can't believe the risks some people are willing to take." Sort-of in their defense, I have to say that remembering a planer can/will kick back is one of the hardest safety things for me. It's only the fact that I keep reading reminders (and horror stories) here and at WWA that keeps me on my toes, and my hands away from the infeed when I'm planing anything remotely iffy. And I never, ever look-see once the stock goes in.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I tried exactly what you are suggesting recently preparing some spruce for a guitar project. The whole thing exploded on me inside the planer. I had to start over with a thickness sander. The planer was just too aggressive (even with the shallowest of cuts).
Good luck.
GEM
Stig, I use a plywood sled slightly larger than the pieces it carries through the planer or sander with a lip attached to the back edge to keep the piece from slipping backward as it goes through and I also stick adhesive sand paper discs to the plywood surface further guaranteeing a "grip" on the thin piece. Its never failed me. aloha, mike
Regarding planing thin stock.
Today, Monday January 23. I will use some and a mixture, of the advice that I have received from all of you guys. After I have done some experimenting I will post a report on what happened and how I did it. I like to thank all of you for being so helpful.
Stig.
Well, I am back again with the report that I promised. Here is what happened today.
As I stepped out in the garage where my wife's car is parked I saw a pink liquid on the floor right under where the engine is. To arrange service time and transport took at least two hours away from my shop time. However, back in the shop I did the following.
I walked up to my Knapp Profit 410T combination machine, talking to it in a low and soothing voice. (I truly love my Knapp).
I ran the edge of two walnut and four beach planks over the jointer.
I ripped them to about four inches wide. All six was 60 inch long by 3/4 thick.
I then ran them lightly through the thickness planer for uniformity.
Next I resawed the planks into four 1/8 inch thick planks on my Laguna L24.
After that I switched back to the thickness planer.
My Knapp Profi 410T did not let me get below 0.16 inch in thickness. The anti-kickback teeth met the top at that measure for safety reasons.
Now comes the truly brilliant part!!!
I rolled the now smoothed sides of the thin planks with PVA glue, taped one beach and one walnut piece together to fix their position to each other.
The two double-planks went into my long and narrow vacuum bag with an air evacuating net on top. Turned on the pump.
I now have the two 0.16 inch thick planks glued together to form a 0.32 inch piece, half walnut - half beach.
I then ran the pieces through my planer again, ever so lightly, until I ended up with a total thickness of 0.2 inches, or 0.1 for each plank.
Tomorrow I will continue by gluing the second beach plank to the other side of the walnut piece.
Then I will plane, that last piece to the same thickness, (0.1 inch), thus ending up with a total of 0.3 inch. Consisting of one walnut strip sandwiched between two beach layers.
I will rip the layered planks into 3/4 inch wide strips that will be used as an accent on the edges of some dresser tops veneered with bubinga. The outer part of the edge will be solid mahogany.
Thank You all for you interest and help
Stig.
Hello Mike.
That one I will try for sure.
Thanks
Stig.
I agree with Pondfish, the sled is the ticket. when you make the sled, use at least 3/4" T cabinet grade plywood. Sand well and seal with wax.... carnuba or similar. Be cautious of car waxes or others that contain silicone, it could contaminate a secondary bond.
Davec
Pondfish and DaveC, thanks for advice.
In a future job I will try the sled described by Dave. I did a similar thing but with maple. The problem was that the grain on the maple was really irregular, running in all directions. It tore apart something terribly. Beach turned out to be a better wood.
I guess that what I am saying here is that one has to be careful when choosing wood for thin planing.
Here is another thing that I have learned from you guys. I need a drum sander of some sort. Problem is, I don't know which one to buy. I am a one man shop, willing to pay for good equipment without going "overboard",
Stig.
Stig
Drum sander? Why not build your own: here's a few ideas:
Ukelele Maker's Drum Sander
Musical Instrument Maker's Drum Sander
Shop--Made Drum Sander
Moritz Drum Sander Plans
Ray Lanham's Sander from Wood Central
As you may have gathered I've done some research here!
Scrit
Scrit, Thank You very much.
I am floored by the ideas You sent me. After studying the different drawings etc. I decided to sleep on it a bit. But, I will definitely build one of them. I like the challenge and the savings. As a matter of fact I have an old Sears one HP motor. I bit grimy but in good working condition. I promise to keep in touch and show pictures of the progress as I start the project.
Now, one last question. Does the two lovelies in the hula skirts come with the instructions, or? Just asking, can't hurt can it?
Thanks again.
Stig
Stig, you need a lot more than 1hp unless the sander is less than 10" wide. I built my drum sander ,3" diameter drum, 16" sanding width. I originally used a sears one horse power motor. Only worked with stock narrower than 4". Wider stock bogged down, causing snipe wherever the drum slowed up. I changed to a 3hp motor, mostly because I had one, now the drumsander works very well.
My sander has the stock going over the drum, no powerfeed. Although for a lot of sanding I set up a regular powerfeed, the type used on a saw.
mike
Thanks for telling me. It so happens that I know a place where I can get used stuff like that. I am sure that they have a 3 HP motor or perhaps a bit bigger.
Stig
About tearout when planing figured wood, like your maple...
Wet the surface to be planed first. I use a spray bottle to dampen the wood and then let it sit for a few minutes. Wet wood slices easier and chips far less. Be sure to also take very light (1/64" or less) cuts.
I make 3/16" curly maple strips using this method. If I don't wet the wood, I end up with expensive kindling. Wetting the wood is a big help.
But--be sure that the wood is dampened, not wet with puddles. And be sure your planar head and blades aredry afterwards!Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
Good point Pondfish.
Thanks.
Stig.
I have a much simpler method for planing down to 1/16th or thinner. Take a piece of mdf that is longer and wider than the piece to be planed. Now, plane first, cut later. In other words, if you're making a chess board and need 2 X 2 pieces, plane the wood before you cut them into small pieces. Take the two inch wide strip and leave an inch or so on each end for waste. Glue the last half inch of the board to the mdf. Let dry. Plane. Run the mdf board through saw and cut off the half inch from each end of planed board. The remaining piece is now free to be cut.
Hello Jcinco and thanks for the interest.
See if I understand this correctly. The glue on the end is to keep the wood in question to travel through the planer, OK?
I tried something like that with some maple. It tore apart half way through. But You see, I think that the problem is not the method, it is the wood. Maple is very difficult to plane anyway. So I went for ash and beach and it worked good.
I have often planed wood down to 3/32". I take a piece of MDF and glue some snadpaper (220 grit) to the surface of the MDF. That keeps the piece of wood from slipping in the planer. I use a planer which has very sharp knives and has a chipbreaker and pressure bar. This keeps the distance from the point where the material can bend to the knife shorter than if the planer only has a set of feed rollers.
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