Replies

1. 
   radrays | Jan 04, 2005 06:16am | #1

   I looked at the 10-20 and after a lot of discussion with others, I decided that it was too underpowered and a waste of money.  Got the 16-32 and really love it. 

2. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 18, 2005 09:53pm | #2

   This reply may be late, but I bought a 10-20 sander recently. It is quite satisfactory except that the feed belt refuses to track. The first one separated at the seam. WMH sent me a new one but didn't seem to like it. The new belt tracks worse than the original. I bought three cloth belts custom made. They won't track either. Even when turned around, no belt will track. It is as if the laws of physics have been suspended! I have found a way to live with this problem, but I am so displeased that I passed on purchasing a Powermatic saw.

   I heard nothing but praise for Performax prior to purchase. I don't know whether I should ask, "Why me, God?" or to quit paying attention to advice from salespeople and magazine writers or to be glad that I didn't waste more on a 16-32. All three?

   RoRo

1. 
   DonC | Mar 18, 2005 10:51pm | #3

   I don't know if this will work BUT, I have read about a solution to 6 X 48" belt sanders that would not track. The owners created a crown to the idler by wrapping tape arond the center. Maybe you can give it a try on your machine. If it doesn't work, you can always remove it.

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 19, 2005 04:34pm | #4

   DONC4:That is similar to the solution I plan to try sometime when I am not busy. I have heat shrinkable tubing which will fit the idler. I am going to put that on the center of it. The real problem is disassembly. It must have been assembled using special tools. I had it apart once and do not look forward to that again. Another problem with crown is that tension on the feed belt will be lower at the edges than in the center. The belt may not lie flat in that condition. I suspect cloth belts will work better with crown than will a paper belt. Has anyone else had my problem? Have you solved it?Thanxx!!RoRo

2. 
   sedna | Mar 19, 2005 10:36pm | #5

   Why don't you try Donc4's suggestion with the tape as you would not need to disassemble anything. If it works you would know and could do something more permanent. If it doesn't nothing lost.
   Keith

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 20, 2005 03:23am | #6

   I thought of that, too, and did it. I can't try it yet because of other shop activities. However, I don't much expect it to work. A more exact description of my problem is that the feed belt always gravitates inward, toward the drive motor. Turning around the belt should result in movement outward. It doesn't. I miked the drive and idler rollers. There is not a thousandth difference at each end. I am buffaloed by the problem. When I try the tape solution, I will report the result.Actually, my karma must be at work. It seems that if there are a thousand identical items on a store shelf, I will buy the one that is defective. It is probably a good thing that I didn't choose a career in quality control. I could have halted the output of any corporation.Thanxx!! for the interest and suggestion.RoRoP.S.: I tried the tape on the center of the idler roller. Three layers allowed enough adjustment to keep it on track. However, there is now no tension on the outside of the belt. It is so loose that it rides about an eighth inch above the platen. Anoyher problem could be tape durability. In the short time I ran the machine, the tape showed signs of having become compressed.End of report.Has anyone else out there had to deal with such a problem?RoRo

   Edited 3/20/2005 1:48 pm ET by RoRo

3. 
   woodensplinter | Mar 27, 2005 07:03am | #7

   Is it possible the belts are dragging or catching on something on the one side?  If adjustment doesn't help and they alway ride to one side, drag or a bad bearing are the only things that come to mind.

    

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 27, 2005 05:12pm | #8

   There is no indication of bad bearings (It is an almost brand new model and unit) nor of any excessive drag. What is most puzzling is that removing the belt, turning it around, then installing it in reverse does not change the direction of drift. The 10-20 came with a pair of "trackers" which are supposed to prevent drift. The only thing they seemed to do was wear the belt edge faster than otherwise. The belts are so expensive from WMH that some more effective measure to prevent their damage seems appropriate. The solution I am considering is to add an extension to the bed which would allow use of a belt at least twice as long. I would also employ a spring-loaded tensioner which allows tracking adjustment with one screw or knob. The source of tension at present is compression of the drive drum and belt stretch. I may try using a cloth-backed belt rather than the paper one. It may stretch unevenly thus settling in to track properly. Enlarging the idler roller at the center may work with a cloth belt, too.Thank you for your interest.RoRo

1. 
   woodensplinter | Mar 29, 2005 04:13am | #9

   I know this is really grasping at straws but is the drum parallel to the table?  If not, that could be the source of the "drag".  The other thing that comes to mind is that the drum has some angular misalignment, i.e. its pushing toward one side.  That could explain why reversing the feed belt doesn't help.

   FYI:  I have absolutely no experience with horizontal drum sanders but your predicament has really piqued my interest.  It really irks me when people spend good money on tools that don't perform and the manufacturer won't own up.  After safety, this is probably my next favourite rant.

   Good luck and keep us posted if you come up with a solution.

   Edited 3/28/2005 9:18 pm ET by wooden splinter

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 29, 2005 04:30am | #10

   Splinter: Great point!! However, it will take some real ingenuity to fix it if it is misaligned. And, as I posted earlier, I did not buy a Powermatic table saw due to this experience. I will update this reply after measuring table/drum alignment.Thanxx!!RoRoPostscript: Both drive and idler drums are mounted well below the platen. They were uneven also. The belt runs unguided below the platen. The unevenness caused the belt path to be shorter at the motor side but only by a few thousands of an inch. I adjusted the motor downward which made that path longer. It had no effect. The drums cannot be adjusted such that their surfaces are exactly in the plane of the platen. There will always be considerable drag on the belt. It was a nice try, and thank you.My current solution is to release tension frequently then move the belt back to the outside. That means keeping an eye on the belt when running it. If I have a lot of sanding to do, I have my portable drill handy with a bit which fits the tensioning screws. With it, I release tension quickly. I use its ratchet to tighten the screws to approximately equal tension after moving the belt back. I made infeed and outfeed supports which lift off which gives me quick access to the screws. Maybe this story will help some other user of this machine.RoRo

   Edited 3/29/2005 12:15 pm ET by RoRo

2. 
   woodensplinter | Mar 30, 2005 03:19am | #13

   I was thinking about purchasing one of these.  Seemed like the perfect fit to my dinky shop.

   GUESS AGAIN!!!

3. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 30, 2005 03:14pm | #14

   You might still buy one. Just be certain to run it for a while before leaving the store with it. Don't mail order as I did. I'm prety sure that I got a bad sample. However, the opposite could be true. One that works properly could be the odd sample.RoRo

4. 
   cicero | Mar 31, 2005 10:39am | #15

   Ah,I was wondering where you had bought it.

   I tend to buy from a shop that guarantees their wares.

   Just had a problem with a new band saw,rang them up,next day, chap came and fixed,gave me a few tips while he was here,very nice.

   Think more to do with choice of supplier than karma.

5. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 31, 2005 09:54pm | #16

   I'm sure you are right, Cicero. Unfortunately, I live in the woodwork tool backwaters. If such a unit were in stock within 500 miles it would surprise me. You must be more fortunate in that respect. Since I come from a long line of fixers (my dad repaired transistor radios in the '50s!), I can usually get things to work. The karma reference was in jest, but it really puzzles me as to why turning around the belt does not change the direction of drift when it seems that every cause other than belt tolerance has pretty well been ruled out. And several belts have been tried. I always thought that the laws of physics were no joke.RoRo

6. 
   cicero | Mar 31, 2005 10:52pm | #17

   I thought the wild west was gone and waggons obsolete,not so it would seem.:-)

   Do you think karma is overriding the law of physics?

   I am a fiddler,so I know how you feel.

7. 
   cadiddlehopper | Apr 01, 2005 05:38am | #18

   I don't understand everything you imply. My reference to karma was in jest. Perhaps there are some thin-skinned Buddhists which that insults. If so, I ask them to accept my apologies. The Buddhists of my acquaintance are not sensitive about such things. Personally, I don't consider that karma exists. I have been wrong about many other things. I could be wrong about that, too.You know, we are off the subject of wood and tools.RoRo

8. 
   cicero | Apr 01, 2005 05:54am | #19

   Sorry I do get off the track,I withdraw and apologise.

   Problem with net talk,can easily be misunderstood.

   And I hope you sort sander toboot:-)

9. 
   cadiddlehopper | Apr 02, 2005 02:28am | #21

   No need to apologize. I feel a bit guilty about starying from FWW purpose on its site.RoRo

10. 
    woodensplinter | Apr 01, 2005 05:17pm | #20

    Unfortunately, I live out in the boonies.  Mail order is my only option.

    I know that sometimes it's luck of the draw.  There was an earlier discussion regarding the Ridgid oscillating belt sander.  I received one for Xmas.  Love it.  Another person had not one, but two, bad samples.

    One of the worst things, to me, is a manufacturer who won't stand behind his product.

    OK.  That's probably the second worst thing.  I just don't have the patience you do to keep tinkering with a tool that doesn't work properly. Waaaaaaaay to frustrating for me.

    Thanks for the warning and the advice though.  I really do hope you stumble across a solution.  Woodworking should be an enjoyable experience.

    Edited 4/1/2005 5:13 pm ET by wooden splinter

11. 
    cadiddlehopper | Apr 02, 2005 02:41am | #22

    Too bad. I'm stuck with Ace, Lowe's, & Home Depot for tool shopping unless I travel. Some good stuff, but not necessarily what you need at the time. Grizzly & WW Supply (of New Mexico) have been visited on occasion. Tried to buy a Grizzly lathe at their store. It was out of stock!! Can't win.I have a Ridgid oscillating belt/spindle sander. It broke under warranty. They stood behind it. That was years ago. I made at least one round trip of 60+ miles for a repair. Can't remember if I had to make the trip or if I chose to do so for faster service. I like the tool. It is $40 cheaper now than when I got mine.Maybe tool are like cars. We should never buy from the first production runs of new models.RoRo

4. 
   sedna | Mar 29, 2005 09:23pm | #11

   I have no personal experience with this sander, but a friend of mine has one and he is quite happy with it. I have been following your problem with interest and the suggested "fixes". Having exhausted technical solutions, here is one from another field. Have your solicitor write a letter to the seller with a copy to the manufacturer. It seems obvious this is not how the machine is designed to perform and you have suffered because of a manufacturers oversight. There are remedies for this.
   keith

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Mar 29, 2005 11:39pm | #12

   Thank you for your interest. Actually, all technical solutions aren't exhausted or the thing would work. Furthermore, airing the problem publicly seems more appropriate than resorting to legal action which can be both expensive and frustrating. I have written the manufacturer about the problem. WMH has not responded to my last complaint. I really don't expect them to respond. When I reported the belt separation their immediate response was that warranty did not cover feed belts. I got one by contacting the seller. WMH is not Sears, Roebuck. Sears today is not the old Sears either. I consider part of my expenditure personal educational expense as to who cares about customers. I can get adequate use out of the 10-20 as it is. It is just very pesky. As I wrote earlier, it must be my karma.RoRo