I took a week-long carving class from Dimitrios Klitsas, a Greek master carver, last summer. He is an amazing person as well as an incredibly skilled artisan and his studio is filled with exquisite carvings. When I was there he was doing the decorative carving on the most expensive Steinway piano ever made. I asked him if he had ever done a carving that he felt was perfect. By that I meant that if he had to do it over again, there wouldn’t be anything that he would change or do differently. He said that he could think of several pieces that met that criterion. I haven’t made anything that didn’t contain flaws. How about you?
Jim
Replies
Jim,
I've built many pieces myself that I was perfectly happy with when they left the shop. Having occasion to see them years later, some had pretty obvious design and execution defects. How to explain this? I guess they had deteriorated...
Put another way, if you work to a set of standards, and those standards never change, it's all good.
Ray
Ray,
You raise an interesting point. People's perception of perfection changes with their growing level of accomplishment and their greater expectations. What seemed like fine work at one time may seem to be less than perfect later. I was thinking of perfection as an ideal.
Jim
Jim,
David Pye's Nature and Art of Workmanship is a book you might want to read. It addresses some of the issues you are raising.
Ray
Thanks, Ray. I'll order it.
I've made some "perfect" unfinished storage boxes for my truck. They are brute force simple, but are perfect for the application. Most things are just good enough to get me to quit futzing with them, not as good as some, but better than many.
My Mom still has the relief carving I did for Mother's Day, the year I was 8. It looks like you would expect a slightly talented 8-year old would do, given the tools, (nails flatened by hammering them flat, then sharpened, and a pocket knife). Too her it is still perfect. And, at the time I thought it was too.
Jim,
My latest, biggest, and grandest project comes to mind. It was the bubinga table I carved and finished with AZMO. I've attached two pictures of that table taken by none other than Morgan himself.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
That's spectacular, Chris. I have a good size piece of bubinga sitting in my shop right now waiting for me to find something good to do with it. What kind of finish did you use on the table top?
Jim
Jim,
The table is sanded up to 220x and was finished with three coats of an oil/varnish blend. I don't recall the brand, but Morgan would know. I applied a coat of Minwax paste wax after we delivered the table.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
How big is it. You can send it to me. I won't charge you for it. I think bubinga has become my favorite.
ASK
We can call this piece perfect until something else comes along! It looks great!
Man I love bubinga ! I could only dream of purchasing a solid plank like that for my own furniture. Must be worth thousands of dollars just for the rough plank ! One nice thing . . . there is no danger of someone breaking in and carrying off a table like that one ! It must take a foot ball team to move it !I got interested in it 'cause it is so strong and I wanted the strongest wood for making some of my tools and jigs. But when I put some finish on it I was hooked. I limit my self now because I understand it is endangered so when current projects are completed that will be about all for me.I once spent a winter messing with finishes off and on until I arrived at the "perfect" finish for my own bubinga tables. Brings out all those red "veins" that kept disappearing on me with off the shelf finishes. It has held up well but I don't spill stuff all over it or put hot stuff on it and don't subject it to party people.Yah I'm boring to be around.The Zen pottery dudes put in a flaw in their pots. They saaiiidd it wasn't perfect if it lacked a flaw. Just something I read once. Who knows.
Edited 10/29/2008 11:59 pm by roc
Don't keep me in suspense - what's your ideal bubinga finish?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
> ideal bubinga finishMalloof. But first some secret prep steps/elicxers that can not be divulged at this juncture. **** No animals were harmed in these experiments. ****
Edited 11/4/2008 12:16 am by roc
WOW! And then some!
Jim,
I too can say that I have made perfect things.
I have made ...
a perfect fool of myself.
perfect hammer marks in trimwork that look just like an elephant footprint.
a perfect stain on a new shirt.
a perfect mess of my shop.
I could go on but I don't want to brag.
Now that you mention it, I guess I've made some perfect things myself.
I think "perfection" is a strange word to use for it. Suppose I accomplished everything I intended to on a given piece just as I intended; the question would still remain as to whether my intentions were "perfect" (i.e., the piece I intended to make was any good).
We all may have done pieces where we managed to perform each operation as well as it could be accomplished. That doesn't mean what we built was necessarily terrific.
On the o0ther hand, we may have done work where one thing and onother went wrong, or deviated from an intention, but the end result was good in spite of that.
As I started woodworking just a very short time ago and was fretting about various issues, my wise daughter reminded me that "the perfection is in the imperfection". It has kept me enthusiastic and willing to keep making things!!
Is there a disconnect between "perfect" and "flawless"?
I suspect the latter is easier to achieve.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Hi Jim ,
It might be helpful to first define " perfection " in terms we can use as a guideline to judge other then do I think it is perfect .
To me wood is an imperfect medium , so we start out with the best stock we have available but it may not be perfect .
I have made pieces that were imo , flawless but not perfect as well as perfect but not flawless and some that were both .There may only be a fine line between the two , but always I try and do my work to the best of my ability , not necessarily the best way though .
As a miserable perfectionist I may never be convinced that my work is perfect in any way , I keep striving for a high degree of perfection in all my works and when I feel it's right my clients do as well .
I have received many thank you cards and calls even after I got paid from satisfied clients , to me this is the big pay off .
" Alsikan " dusty
hey dusty,
just wondering, did you procure "alsikan" from an arts and crafts period logo?
if so, it is dutch, should be written:als ik kan. it means: if i can.
eef
Hi eef ,
I got it from the Stickley Brothers , sorry if I butchered the spelling but they use the term and in a rough translation to them and me it means,,,
I will do all I can to do the job to the best of my ability , or Alsikan (sp)
Your spelling is probably correct , I thought it first spelled Alaska wrong.
dusty
I've been involved in the making of two things in my life that I would consider perfection. One's named Nathan(18) the other's name Daniel(13). I still remember those little faces in the hospital. Although on second thought God handled the perfection part, I've just tried to not screw it up! All other things pale in comparison.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Edited 10/30/2008 8:34 pm by bones
"I haven't made anything that didn't contain flaws. How about you?"
In truth, I'm pretty much in the same boat. Some of the flaws are detected during construction, and are masked to the casual eye. Others are detected later, upon greater reflection. Most are learning experiences, though.
In my view, perfection, being subjective, is best treated as a goal, rather than a destination.
Ralph,
I agree with you about perfection being a goal. I have made many pieces that have had faults that no one but me can see. It used to bother me, but the comments from my fellow knotheads makes me realize that it just comes with the territory.
Jim
What a great question! Over the 25 or so years I've been woodworking, I can think of 2 or 3 things that I thought were flawless when they left the shop and 1 item that was perfect. (I define perfection in this case as not having had to cover any mistake made during the construction and finishing of the piece. Flawless means that I couldn't have done them any better in terms of design and finish.) After the fact, the perfect piece was still perfect, in terms of construction, but terribly uninspired and blase in design. The 2 or 3 things that were flawless turned out to be terribly flawed in design but the finish still looked nice.
I did find a piece I'd made about 10 years later at a friends house and was pleasantly surprised by how good it looked and how well designed it was. Funny that it didn't strike me that way when I made it. Clearly, tastes and concepts change with time. Hopefull for the better.
Kell
I have never made a perfect piece, nor do I expect to. In fact I rather hope I never "reach" the level where I say my work is perfect, because that means I have settled.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
"In fact I rather hope I never "reach" the level where I say my work is perfect, because that means I have settled."Or, have become me. (LOL)
perfection is an illusion.
Or, a delusion, as the case may be. ;-)
Is it possible that one persons idea of perfection isn't the same for another person(s)?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Not only possible, but quite likely, I'd say. ;-)
Is it possible that one persons idea of perfection isn't the same for another person(s)?
Most likely.. 'Gentlemen prefer Blondes'? Not me! Give me a Brunette anyday!
Jim,
What is a "flaw"? I don't understand the term.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Jim is in Fla, judging by his handle. In Florida, a flaw is what you walk on; as in, "These flaws heah, ah hawadwood. Ah b'lieve theah oak."
Ray
Ray,
Mah, y'all hav a mighty fine sense a humah.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Ray,
That sounds more like someone from your neck of the woods. In South Florida everyone is from Noo Yawk.
Jim
Jim,
My sis in law is from Jacksonville. Her mom talked thataway. Maybe she was an import from the Old Dominion. Ha.
Ray
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