Replies

1. 
   jeffs | Dec 12, 2008 08:58am | #1

   I use 0.5 mm mechanical pencils in the shop. It is a bit of a pain since the lead can be fragile but I can choose the "hardness" (darkness) of the lead and it is cheap. The plus is the very thin lines and not having to sharpen.

    

2. 
   roc | Dec 12, 2008 09:10am | #2

   habilis,

   I don't use one of these, yet, but want to investigate it some day.

   http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01%2E658%2E2&dept_id=12995

   It does fill your bill. Dark and maintains its point. Note the black line on the wood crossing under the ruler.

   I think it requires a ruler/square designed to use with ink so it does not wick under and blotch.

   roc

   
   

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   Edited 12/12/2008 1:14 am by roc

3. 
   bigfootnampa | Dec 12, 2008 06:19pm | #3

   The Irwin carpenter's pencils are pretty good... on sale at Lowe's here for 18 cents each.  You sharpen them to a wedge (not a point) and use them such that the wedge aligns with the straight edge so that they make the narrowest line.  Use a sharp knife to sharpen them.  The Irwin's mark pretty dark (they are fairly soft) but because of the width of the lead they will still wear reasonably before needing resharpened (still need frequent resharpening... hence the sharp knife is a key accessory).

1. 
   TEX | Dec 14, 2008 04:50am | #13

   You can also use a old piece of sandpaper to sharpen the Irwin carpenter's pencil to a wedge. When laying out cut lines for dovetails using a knife, the wedge tip fits nicely into and tracks the cut line to make it more visible. Cheap and easy.

1. 
   bigfootnampa | Dec 14, 2008 06:16am | #14

   "You can also use a old piece of sandpaper to sharpen the Irwin carpenter's pencil to a wedge"

   I reckon that is true Tex... but as I am a knife maker and famous for the sharpness of my tools... I think I'd just as soon use a knife.  It works faster too.  James Krenov thinks it should be done in just four cuts... but I am the kind to make lots of quick cuts instead.  I am getting to the point where I rarely buy sandpaper anymore.  I have replaced most of it with steel cut or scraped surfaces.

4. 
   Napie | Dec 12, 2008 06:54pm | #4

   These work very well and you can get any hardness lead you want.  The 2mm lead is quite strong and you can sharpen it on sandpaper.   I have used them in the shop for years they are very durable.

   http://www.dickblick.com/zz206/01/

5. 
   BOBABEUI | Dec 12, 2008 07:19pm | #5

   Another user of the Sanford Turquoise Lead Holder, it uses 2mm leads of different hardness. I have the sharpener that allows you to either have the finest point (like a .5mm) or a slightly blunter point for less critical marking..

   Should be available at any good art supply store, I think it was $7 for the pencil and $7 for the sharpener..

   
   

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   Edited 12/12/2008 11:20 am ET by BOBABEUI

1. 
   davcefai | Dec 12, 2008 08:56pm | #6

   I buy my 2mm lead pencils from a stationary supplies shop. They are in fact drafting pencils (Rotring). I am unable to use a 0.5mm lead for more than 1inch or 2 letters before it snaps :-(They have a built-in sharpener in the "button".

1. 
   northhouguy | Dec 13, 2008 02:52am | #8

   "I am unable to use a 0.5mm lead for more than 1inch or 2 letters before it snaps :-("

   Davcefai:

   There's an old draftsman's trick you can use to stop that problem.  Lift up the pencil just before it breaks...

   Nuck, nuck, nuck.  I couldn't resist, sorry.  (That's what the old timers used to tell us rookies back in the days of laying lead.)

   I'm a 0.9 mm man myself.

   Best regards,

   Fred

6. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Dec 12, 2008 10:07pm | #7

   I found that the Pentel 0.9 works for 90% of the places that I like to use the 0.5 and it dosen't break very often.  A sharp  std. yellow pencil, the fat bowling pencil ( I am running out of fat ones-source anyone??) or flat carpenter's types are best for the rougher surfaces. Paddy

7. 
   boilerbay | Dec 13, 2008 05:08am | #9

   Hablis,

   Nothing fancy. A #2/HB soft Dixon Ticonderoga. a couple bucks by the dozen at Staples and the eraser takes it off of most woods. An old garage sale Panasonic electric sharpener close to the layout area.
   I do have a back up sharpener though..a 30 year old Berol hand crank.

   There is great discussion possibilities here though as I find there is a remarkable difference in lead bevel between the traditional hand tool method and the more modern power tool method. You know the angle of attack makes all the difference.

   The Boiler

1. 
   Frank Vucolo | Dec 13, 2008 08:09am | #10

   There is great discussion possibilities here though as I find there is a remarkable difference in lead bevel between the traditional hand tool method and the more modern power tool method. You know the angle of attack makes all the difference.

   I find I get the best results with my #2 Ticonderogas when I use the low angle, bevel up sharpener - and always by hand, never with a power sharpener.

   A power sharpener is fine for #1s and crayons, but if you are into the #2 Ticonderoga, you need to develop and then appreciate the beauty of a hand worked conical ending in the traditional style. If you do it right, there is no need to have sandpaper in your pencil refining area.

   But seriously, folks. I buy a box of #2 Ticonderogas, slice the whole bunch in half on the band saw, sharpen them all up and keep them in a little box beside my bench. There's always a sharp one behind my ear at all times.

   I have the full assortment of marking knives, guages, awls and even a couple of mechanical pencils, but handle 90+% of my marking with those half pencils.

   Frank

1. 
   stpatrick | Dec 13, 2008 08:21am | #11

   "A power sharpener is fine for #1s and crayons, but if you are into the #2 Ticonderoga, you need to develop and then appreciate the beauty of a hand worked conical ending in the traditional style. If you do it right, there is no need to have sandpaper in your pencil refining area. "

   Frank, you're killing me here with laughter. Hope all is well with you and yours. Patrick

2. 
   boilerbay | Dec 13, 2008 05:15pm | #12

   Which projects do you reserve for the halves withe eraser tip:-)
   BB

1. 
   Frank Vucolo | Dec 14, 2008 09:56am | #16

   Which projects do you reserve for the halves withe eraser tip:-)

   When I start a project I ask myself, "Kid, are you feeling lucky?"If I am, I go with the eraserless half. It's like working without a net.

   Sometimes the false sense of security provided by that little pink piece of rubber takes the edge off and curbs the creativity. I like leaving the edge on.

   :-)

    

2. 
   joinerswork | Dec 15, 2008 06:23am | #20

   boiler,

   Oh, he sawed them in two crosswise?

   Ray

1. 
   boilerbay | Dec 15, 2008 07:19am | #22

   When they are really worn down you can save'em up and used them for exposed "eyed" dowels.Boiler

3. 
   joinerswork | Dec 15, 2008 06:22am | #19

   frank,

   I tried yout tip about bandsawing all my pencils in half lengthwise, and getting twice the use out of them.  But, my bandsaw's kerf took out all the lead.  What did I do wrong?

   Ray

1. 
   stpatrick | Dec 15, 2008 06:36am | #21

   oh, you guys are hilarious. thanks for the giggle. best regards, patrick

2. 
   Frank Vucolo | Dec 15, 2008 08:15am | #23

   I tried yout tip about bandsawing all my pencils in half lengthwise, and getting twice the use out of them.  But, my bandsaw's kerf took out all the lead.  What did I do wrong?

   Ray,

   Aren't you the same guy who went to the pet shop when I was telling you how to restore that old plane?

   Poor frog never stood a chance.

   But back to pencils for a minute... some folks apparantly take them very seriously... as I found out while over on Lee Valley's website

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32538&cat=1,42936,43509&ap=1

    

   Frank

8. 
   WillGeorge | Dec 14, 2008 08:00am | #15

   I mark with a knife.

   Rub on some colored chalk (color of your choice) to fill the scribe line.. Brush off the remaning..

9. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Dec 14, 2008 02:05pm | #17

   habilis,

   These discussions crack me up!

   Ye get a .00000000000000000000001 thick pencil to mark a line; then ya gotta cut the dang thang!

   Sorry, been reading too many posts from Charlie.......

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

10. 
    dkellernc | Dec 14, 2008 10:39pm | #18

    Regarding your question, all of the above answers have been focusing on the pencil.  While certainly the thickness of the lead has an influence on the force that can be put on it before it breaks, it may not be what you're looking for to focus on the holder for the lead (that includes "permanent" holders, like traditional cedar pencils).

    What I'd suggest is to bop on down to the nearest local art store, and tell the clerk you need a set of art pencils that are inexpensive and come in the large range of lead hardnesses - HB to 6H.  They should be very inexpensive (actually too inexpensive - they're mostly made by slave labor in Asia).

    With these, you can quickly figure out what hardness/breakage resistance vs. darkness of the line you wish.  I'd expect that might vary a bit depending on whether you're working primarily softwoods, domestic hardwoods, or exotics.  While you're there, you can also pick up a couple of colored pencils - white and red are very useful on dark woods.