Replies

1. 
   fredsmart48 | Nov 06, 2002 09:31pm | #1

   Make the panel with a table saw build a vertical panel holder that fits over the fence and you can clamp the panel to. Now set the blade to 15 degrees cut to 1/4 inch cut the end grain first. Next after you cut all that reset the blade to 90 degrees and lower it so you get a shoulder cut.

   Rails cut a 1/4 inch dado and styles 1/4 tendon

2. 
   charlesm | Nov 06, 2002 10:46pm | #2

   $45 dollars to sharpen a cutter sounds like highway robbery to me. I could be wrong. Perhaps Scott Whiting will reply with an estimate of what he charges.

   Sharpening a cutter will change the profile only slightly. The edges of the cutter are not ground, only the face, so the change in profile results from the relief angle of the edge of the cutter (generally 15°) which means that a radius in the profile will change a couple of 1/1000ths per sharpening. This should be insignificant. Many manufacturers (Freud included) offer 3/4" bore cutters and bushings for use on 1/2" spindles. This is, in fact, common practice. If you buy a quality shaper cutter you should be able to produce a LOT of panels.

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

1. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 07, 2002 04:34am | #6

   Charles,

     without getting my local dealer into trouble he indicated that I might be better off with cheap disposable cutters rather than try to do all of the panels with the Freud. ($45  was his estimate for sharpening since the places I normally get stuff sharpening at at don't do cutters)

     I know this is hard to estimate but how many board feet do you think I could mill into White Oak (with a lot of burl) before they needed sharpening?   I'm not looking for any kind of warrantee, just a rough guesstimate....

1. 
   JPGrout | Nov 07, 2002 05:55am | #8

   Well Frenchy, My 2 cents. If you are willing to purchase an insert panel knife setup (up front rather spendy) you could just wear out the inserts and replace them for about what the cost of sharpening as you quoted earlier. If you want longevity, get a power feed, it really does help. As to life of the knife it can be upwards of a of several hundred panels if doing cabinet doors. I ran sixty four panel interior ash doors for a job not too long ago average door had 32 feet of raised panel. Easily 2000 feet and we did send the knife off for sharpening. The last 200 feet was a challenge with the wild grain though. Mind you this amount was run with a power feeder and your mileage will vary depending on your conditions Ha Ha Joe

3. 
   floman47 | Nov 06, 2002 11:35pm | #3

   I had a cheep cutter break on me.  Luckily all the parts went behind the shaper then thru two walls (no one hert).  So my vote would be for a quality cuter.  Then you will have it  long after this one job.

   Jeff in so cal

4. 
   noone51 | Nov 06, 2002 11:50pm | #4

   Frenchy, I have to side with Charles M on this one although my experience has been with router bits. I tried the buy cheap and replace often theory and found it to be frustrating to get half way through a job and having to replace the bit. Ironically I switched to the more expensive Freud raised panel set and have done several panels since without needing to have them sharpened professionally. I touch them up with a ceramic stone, (a diamond would be better) and they cut consitently well every time. I bought the kit which has the panel, mortise, tenon and universal bits for around 250.00. I think it is was the right choice for me. I tend to swing more towards Whiteside bits these days but I think the Freud is good kit offering.

1. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 07, 2002 04:29am | #5

   Where can you get whiteside cutters?  I asked at my local Frued dealer and he didn't seem excited about Freud especially in light of how much panel work I have to do. He indicated that I might be better off going the disposable route.

1. 
   noone51 | Nov 07, 2002 07:19am | #9

   Frenchy, don't hang me from a rope here, LOL.. I've never checked out the Whiteside panel bits. I'm happy with my Freuds but then again mine are router bits and you are looking for shaper bits. A different story with the same ending. Cheap is cheap and quality can't be beat. So have you got the place sealed up for the winter or are you and the wife still steppin out of bed and into snow.

1. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 07, 2002 07:33pm | #11

   The snow melted so at least we don't have a slippery ladder to go down in the morning.   I can only panel the roof when I have a forklift, the panels are 22 feet long and wiegh several hundred pounds  (I'm probably a wuoose for not humping them to the roof peak by hand, but I get dizzy looking down over 36 feet to the brick pavement below)  I get last call on the forklifts since the company I work for only charges me $10. per hour on the meter and If I rented it the cost would be $1900 a month.  Since we are completely out of forklifts this weekend isn't looking too good!

5. 
   dcarrara | Nov 07, 2002 05:14am | #7

   Frenchy,

   I agree with Charles M. $45 seems quite high. Sharpening should only take off a few thousands. I would buy a high quality bit for safety sake. I have a panel raising bit and I use it on my Grizzly 3HP shaper. The spindle is 3/4". I made the "box fence" shown in "The Shaper Book" and it works well.

   Dario

6. 
   StanleyNiemiec | Nov 07, 2002 01:26pm | #10

   I have a Freud raised panel cutter that I have had since the early '80's.  Basically it is a disc with three carbide inserts.  It was a spendy investment but I have NEVER regreted it. 

   I agree with FG regarding using diamond stones to resharpen.  I basically sharpen all my shaper cutters and router bits using two 2"x6" 'stones' (on metal plates)  -- one medium and the other fine.  Both will set you back over $100, but as far as I am concerned, it is absolutely worth it for several reasons:

   The first is that when you raise panels (especially oak) if the cutter is not SHARP, you will get machine burn on end grain.  Pardon my language but sanding this out is a real bitch.  With sharp cutters you can virtually eliminate sanding.

   Over the course of a year, by touching-up/resharpening my cutters and bits, I actually purchase less tooling.  You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that 6 or 8 less bit purchases (not to mention added shipping costs or trips to your supplier) will more or less pay for the 'stones'.

   And of course, I have eliminated about 70% of my resharpening expenditures.  I still take in the panel cutter periodically and last year, my filer charged me $25 to sharpen it.

   I also do not have to stop a production run while the cutter is "out for sharpening".  If burning starts, I pull the cutter and work on it immediately.  I thus don't try to run another 80' of problems because I want to either eliminate a trip into town or the delay in finishing the job.

   I like diamond stones.  I have had the fine one for over ten years now and it is still dead flat.  I keep wondering when it is going to actually wear out but it still keeps cutting.

   And forget those little jobbies mounted on plastic.  I bought a set and they proved more or less worthless because the plastic flexes.

   Also find out if you can reverse the direction of rotation on your shaper.  Reversing rotation allows you to change the feed direction as well as whether the tooling is cutting from the top or from the bottom.  Cutting from the bottom is a whole lot safer.  And if your cutter has a backside trimmer, you will be registering from the visible surface and therein will be less concerned about thickness variation and back quality.