Replies

1. 
   Michael6255 | Jan 20, 2008 03:11pm | #1

   I'd use Sikkens wood finishes since they have what appear to be the best UV protectant in their products.

   Mike

1. 
   phil_d | Jan 21, 2008 05:21am | #2

   Thanks Michael.  I would expect it to be good for the coat I see!  // Phil

2. 
   Quickstep | Jan 21, 2008 06:37am | #3

   The sun is the enemy on this one. If you can live with it, the cedar will turn a silvery grey in time if you just leave it be. Otherwise you're signing up for a lifetime of maintenence. If you don't like the grey options, there are essentially two choices; a surface finish all of which are some variation of varnish, or a penetrating finish that's oil based or silicone based. Sikkens makes some fabulous finishes with good UV protection, but any surface finish will eventually peel if exposed to sun and require complete removal in order to be renewed. The more opaque the finish, the longer the protection. The best protection would be paint, but I'm guessing that's no the direction you want to go. Oil on the other hand won't peel, but requires more frequent application to protect the wood. Oil also has the disadvantage of attracting airborne pollutants which turn it black. Oil can also transfer to the clothing of someone who sits in the chair. Silicone based penerating finishes don't gather airborne particles, but they make it virtualy impossible to use a surface finish later. There's a silicon based finish called Teak Wonder that works well. It's available at marine supply stores and is priced accordingly. The best defense is a cover that blocks the sun. If you have access to someone who has a heavy duty sewing machine, you can make covers of a material called Sunbrella to cover the chairs when not in use.

   Also, add a small strip of pressure treated on the feet where they touch the ground. This will help prevent rot from getting started.

1. 
   Gretchen | Jan 21, 2008 06:08pm | #4

   Since paint is the best protectant, there is a recommendation on another woodworking board to use the paint base for exterior oil paint--the stuff that is what the paint colors are mixed from. It is clear--looks milky in the can but dries clear. You want the base from which the darkest paint would ultimately be mixed--oil base.Gretchen

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 21, 2008 08:27pm | #6

   That paint base recommendation has been popping up for quite some time, but it doesn't make sense to me. All the "tests" I have seen are not systematic or convincing.   

   The thing in paint that makes it work well is pigment.  The pigment blocks the UV from reaching the wood and preventing the wood deterioration that attacks the bond between it and the finish.  The primary mode of failure for varnish is that it detaches from the wood--an inside out failure.  The paint base will have exactly the same problem as marine varnish in that respect. 

   Additionally, while there may be some UV additives in the paint base, why should these be better or more abundant in the $35 a gallon product that expects to contain pigment than in the $35 a quart products that anticipate being used in the toughest of environments. 

   Further the paint base is almost certain to be linseed/alkyd based which does not fair as well naturally in sun than the tung/phenolic oil/resin combination in many marine spar varnishes. 

   Edited 1/21/2008 12:29 pm ET by SteveSchoene

1. 
   saschafer | Jan 21, 2008 09:40pm | #7

   The argument fails on basic common sense grounds: If paint base makes a better outdoor varnish than existing outdoor varnishes, the manufacturers would market it as such.

   -Steve

    

2. 
   Gretchen | Jan 22, 2008 03:30pm | #11

   Jim Kull on the WoodMagazine board (formerly) did do some tests on it several years back. Maybe Howard Acheson has kept up with it. At one point in time it had been two years in the sun and "holding", as I recall.Gretchen

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 22, 2008 03:44pm | #12

   Never any real up date that I've seen, and it wasn't "holding" it was losing its gloss.  Otherwise, just some anecdotes.  I think Steve Schafer gave the best reason why it's not likely to be a superior product. 

2. 
   Gretchen | Jan 23, 2008 11:25pm | #15

   Just a question. Did any other product hold up better?Gretchen

3. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 24, 2008 02:22am | #16

   The test reported in that four letter magazine forum compared the paint base against Minwax Spar Urethane.  Just about anything would likely outperform the Minwax so the test is worthless.  Now if it had outperformed Epifanes or Interlux, or Pettit marine spars varnishes it would be worth looking at.  There is always something new being tried in the marine market, if that stuff really had promise it would have been tried because of the large profit margin potential. 

   Basically it's just a silly idea based on a word game.  Paint base isn't paint, it's varnish before pigment is added to make it paint.  Why should cheap varnish designed for another purpose outperform specialty products made for a market that will actually pay for quality and in which the users are constantly testing the products out on the market searching for something better?  Such things are major topics of conversation around every yacht club bar in the country. 

4. 
   Gretchen | Jan 24, 2008 04:59pm | #17

   I guess I missed your post where you suggested all those excellent finishes to the OP.

   Steve, with all due respect, your disdain for that forum is showing. You were not greeted well, in your argumentative posts, as I recall, but there really isn't any need for name calling. They don't.  Have a good day.  ;o)

   Gretchen

   Edited 1/24/2008 9:03 am ET by Gretchen

5. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 24, 2008 06:05pm | #18

   The OP wasn't looking for a clear finish to maintain the wood color--consequently why recommend varnish that will require lots of regular maintenance.  He was already getting a good range of advise. Paint base isn't.

   Wood magazine is a competitor to this forum's sponsor, I was merely trying to reference it without actually naming it.  A bit of humor, which obviously was not very clear, is all that was intended.  Actually there is a fair amount of bashing of FWW finishing ideas on the other forum.  Otherwise there is lot's of good finishing advise.  And, occasionally some bad advise too.  The paint base idea falls within the bad category.  The same backyard "test" keeps coming up and it still is silly and unconvincing. 

   I'm not aware that Practical Sailor has tested the paint base concept in their most recent round of testing.  A strong showing would be a meaningful result based on a systematic test.  I'll try to check that out.  I did suggest to the PS editors that paint base be included in their testing so we know they were aware of the idea before they chose the products for their testing.   

6. 
   frankv | Jan 25, 2008 03:21am | #19

   Just one more - I make ADK chairs and I have had good luck w/Cabots Australian timber oil. I have also used Sikens with good results.
   Frank

7. 
   phil_d | Jan 26, 2008 02:29pm | #20

   Thanks Frank.  I am going to research the Cabbots idea.//  Phil

8. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 26, 2008 06:10pm | #21

   but there really isn't any need for name calling.???My wife did that and I was Happy.. We did that as kids and had fun doing it!EDIT: Like Brian .. There is always a BRIGHT side of LIFE!

   Edited 1/26/2008 10:11 am by WillGeorge

2. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 22, 2008 01:36am | #8

   Also, add a small strip of pressure treated on the feet where they touch the ground. This will help prevent rot from getting started. Great advice. I use soldered copper flashing caps on the feet at ground contact.My house is sided in cedar (45 years... about that). Olympic stain works for me. Only stained two times. However, as you stated, the SUN will bleach anything. The only rot I ever had was something stupid I allowed to happen. Like leaves collecting and remain wet on the end grain (vertical siding). That end grain sure soaks up water!

1. 
   phil_d | Jan 22, 2008 05:45am | #9

   Thanks for all the fine information.  After studying all the input, it sounds like this is one of those rare situations where the simplicity of doing nothing is a good option.  Silver patina is not a problem, just rot and decay.  I think the idea re. pressure treated pads, or copper caps is a great one for the end gain on the feet.   ( My wife vetoed making the cover...something about me needing to learn how to use a sewing machine...)

   Thanks All   ///   Phil

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 22, 2008 06:08am | #10

   Impregnating the ground contact end grain with epoxy is also a good idea. 

3. 
   ak | Jan 21, 2008 06:56pm | #5

   Phil,

   Be careful. Some red cedar (most noteably aromatic red) resist varnishes and lacquers due to their natural oil content. The only finish that holds without peeling is a dewaxed shellac. Now, I'm not saying this is true on ALL red cedars. Some have higher oil content than others. Just saying that you might want to consider a no finish approach.

   Adam

4. 
   WoodShopGuy | Jan 23, 2008 06:21am | #13

   I think any kind of finish on exterior Adirondack chairs to be used in a hot clime removes one of their best features – the ability of the raw wood to wick off perspiration from you shirt or skin when you sit in them. This gives a great cooling effect.

   Here in south Florida I have always built them from local cypress (taxodium distichum). As you know, cypress is a relatively light colored non-staining wood. Do not know how your cedar would fare so far as this goes if you sat on it wearing a light colored shirt before the wood was thoroughly weathered. After it bleaches out though I don’t think that would be an issue.

   Cheers!

   Bob

1. 
   phil_d | Jan 23, 2008 07:10am | #14

   Thanks all for the additional tips. 

   There are 8 chairs involved in this project.  2 in Vermont, 2 in Massachucetts, 2 in Columbus OH, and 2 in South Carolina.  Tune in about 5 years from now, and I may have someting to share with all of you.

   Phil