Was going through a family estate and found in the rafters of a barn, a 22″ fore plane signed by my great grandfather, who was a boat builder in the Delaware Bay area. The plane was built (best guess) around 1900. I’m thinking on restoring it: whether to working fashion, I don’t know, but at least to display condition.
I’m no expert on these things or wooden planes in particular. The iron is gone, as are any wooden wedge(s) to hold it in place. Does anyone know …….. ???
- Would the iron have had a chipbreaker? (If so, would it have looked like the ones we use today?)
- It appears there had to be wedges both in front and in back of the iron. Would this be correct?
- Towards the rear, there is a slot, sort of a keyway. Would the wedge have had a keyway on it? (If so, would this have been attached to the main wedge, or would it have been an independent piece?)
Denny
Replies
denny,
signed by your great grand father!? that is amazing in, and of, itself. any chance of you posting a photo? this could be a fun discussion.
eef
Never knew how to post a pic.
It's a heavy block, 22" in length, 3" square. I've cleaned the dirt and birdcrap crust off with a brass brush but not down to the raw wood. I've no clue as to wood species. My wild guess is either maple or some type of fruitwood like apple or pear. Seems to be dead flat on the sole. Has a rear push handle but no frontward handle.
It is my paternal grandmother's father's plane. His name was Richard Bertram Hall. It is signed on both the front and rear butts. He was born around 1875. There was a prominent oyster industry in the region a century ago. He occasionally built homes, but mostly built oyster boats.
As I said, the iron is missing, as is the wedge(s). I think I figured out what it is that I first called a keyway. I think that it's a slot to allow passage of the screw for the chipbreaker.
Denny
denny,
no photo huh? my own computer skills bite badly. the wife uploads for me. i guess we could learn,yeah? do you suppose he made the plane himself? perhaps not and you'll find some mfg. info. then we could maybe find an online image. very fascinating the fact you've something that belonged to an ancestor. i guess it's that way for me as i am not from here and all the family history is back in the "old country". keep wiping the crap off and let's see what's what.
eef
The presence of the slot in the frog area indicates that there was indeed a chipbreaker on the iron. The slot provides clearance for the screw that fastens the chipbreaker to the iron. Old chipbreakers like this are similar to most modern setups.
There was likely a single wedge, to the fore of the blade. It probably had "ears", i.e., the outside edges of the wedge are longer than the center portion. This provides support and wedging for the blade for almost the whole depth of the frog, while allowing clearance for the shavings in the center portion.
Hope that helps. Me, I'd definately restore it to usable condition, tho' I'd not likely use it very often, just due to the sentimental value to the family.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
Mike, I think you are right on all accounts.
I'm gonna be sorry to see the new format for this group. It's been great.
Denny
blewcrowe,
I absolutely agree with Mike, the "slot in the rear"(don't go there...) definitely defines the iron as having a chip breaker held in place with a screw and adjusts the chip breaker with the iron. 22" inch, huh, that's great. I gotta tell ya, sometimes I catch some grief using my oldies. But I just love 'em. I have a set of beading planes and if I just need a piece or two, it's so much faster and easier to grab it and go. No router bits to set and adjust, nothing. Just clamp the piece and ...viola (or whatever the word is).
I use a 50/50 linseed oil and turpentine to clean mine. Works well on the wood and cleans away the old dirt and grease. Can you tell me what size iron you need , as I may have one w/chipper around here somewhere.
Bill D.
Quality Wood Chips
Edited 12/10/2009 3:56 pm ET by billy5151
Thanks, Bill, but it's not expected.
Linseed/Turps? I would think it would gum up the cleaning process. I'll have to try that.
The opening at the sole is 2.25".
I'll have to build the wedge with the wings on it. Or two or three of them to get it right I suppose.
Denny
Denny,
It's hard to answer your questions without some more information.
Is it possible your Great Grandfather copied the E.W. Carpenter 1849 patent with his plane? If so, then it would have had two wedges. He may have used a single iron for his copy but it would be likely he used a double iron and the lower wedge would have the gain cut for the cap iron screw.
You can see the patent at:
http://www.datamp.org/patents/search/advance.php?pn=6226&id=9023&set=21
We have a plane of this design that was made by Baldwin so more than just E.W. Carpenter made them.
I believe the body of the Baldwin plane has a gain cut for the cap iron screw but it would only have been necessary if both wedges were put on top of the iron. I'll have to check and if the body actually has the gain cut. If so, the plane is variable pitch as well as having a mechanism to adjust the mouth opening.
Can you post a photo of the plane? Maybe measure the angle between the abutments and the bed. If this angle is around ten to twelve degrees or so it most likely only had one wedge. If twice that range, it was probably a copy of the Carpenter design.
Well now you went and learned me sumpin'! Never saw a double-wedged plane.
Why for the extra wedge -- to allow variable pitches?Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Mike,The patent says it facilitates adjusting the mouth opening. It does that fine, but it could be a little fiddly. I can envision a three wedge plane that would work for adjusting pitch more effectively than the two wedge design but I can also see some problems like positive wedging of the iron. The plane we have has the rear wedge, the one that adjusts the mouth opening, secured with a screw. I believe it came from the maker that way but I'm not sure. The screw hole isn't slotted so adjusting the mouth and re-securing the rear wedge would be a bit of a chore.
Makes sense -- adjusting the mouth.
Does yours have a relief slot in the frog? Don't see how that would be needed with a rear wedge between the iron and the frog.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Mike,I've got that plane here next to me now. There is no gain in the bed for the cap iron screw. Years ago, I did disassemble the plane to see if the iron could be mounted on top to change it to a half pitch plane and it is possible but I'm not sure how secure the iron would be wedged.BTW, it's a try plane and 23" long and made by the Baldwin Tool Co.
Having looked at it and shared with some others, I'm not convinced it used only one wedge. I'm no good at the picture posting. Thanks.
Denny
Hi Denny.... Please don't scrub all that 100 year old patina off the wood. Gently clean it. One member suggested a 50/50 mix of linseed oil and turps. I usually use Murphys Oil Soap. I found it in a local hardware store. DAMPEN a piece of cloth and rub it until it shines. Take a magnifying glass and check the toe (front) of the plane for a second, small stamping. It should be near the top. If it was not home made, that's where the manufacturer put his stamp. I found that by burnishing the toe with the back of my thumb nail, I can 'raise' a makers stamp enough to read it. If you find something there, let us know, even if it is only a partial stamp. There is a reference book that lists almost all of the American Plane makers names and I use it when searching for old wooden planes. It also lists dates for 'that' particular stamp, especially when a maker used several different stamps. Keep us informed.
SawdustSDteve Long Island, NY (E of NYC)
Wow, you are correct. It has a stamp (tiny), that says
NEW YORK TOOL 09
Denny
Do what Sawdust said. Clean it & display it. Don't sand off any patina. Most likely the wood was either rock maple or beach. If it was made in '09 and you see a slot towards the back, chances are this was a "transitional plane" , and those were planes made around that time that used wood as the sole & body but had a metal chip-breaker. The slot was to accommodate the screw on the breaker. It also may have had a Norris-style depth adjuster, but if there are signs of a wooden wedge up top, I doubt it.
Iron and steel planes were in top production mode at that point and so there was a mix of wood and and iron (steel).
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