An old Craftsman RAS (model 113.197801) has fallen into my possession. It has no manual and my feeble internet search came up with pdf files for many models, but not this one. (Interestingly, it has some sort of an anti-kickback pawl).
This looks like a project, but it would help to have some clue as to what goes where and how it should work. Anyone have any help?
Replies
I'm pretty sure if you contacted Sears they could get you a manual. They may even be able to direct you in how to print one out "On Line"
Good luck and be careful with that thing!!
Regards,
Mack
"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Thanks! I'll give that a try. If I understand correctly, Emerson made the saws for Sears back then.
The former owner says there was no blade guard on it originally. I'm still trying to figure out which knob or lever does what. It looks like it's either going to be a hoss or an albatross.
Are you positive the model # is correct?
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
I just double-checked, the Model # is 113.197801 with a "Serial Code Date" of 2194.M0074.
Craftsman has always had a pretty good system for getting parts, manuals, etc on line. You may have to spend some time at it, but poking around on their website should get you what you need - as long as you have the model number and serial code date right.You might also try getting a copy of any Craftsman RAS owners manual from the 70's or 80's. The design didn't change that much and any manual will be mostly accurate.
Thanks, Dave! If I recall correctly, during the 70's particularly Sears liked to have "specials" of one stripe or another. "Special Purchase" was a buzz phrase, I believe. Was there ever any reall difference between those models and whatever the regular model may have been? Probably not, but it was all about trying to sell those products.
I had a '76 Craftsman RAS which I used for years before giving it away in the 90's when I realized that I hadn't used it much for quite a while and that it had become another flat spot to store "stuff" - lolAs I recall, it was pretty decent but difficult to align and keep in alignment. It was very handy for cross cutting - once you got used to having to hold it back so it didn't try to crawl across the board and into your chest. I used it for ripping but was never comfortable doing that.As I said earlier, any 70's era manual would probably give you quite a bit of useful info. I remember in the late 80's, a neighbor had one and my manual covered 80%-90% of his saw.
Thanks, Dave! Emerson hopefully has a manual coming soon that should be of help.
heart,
Any chance you might be able to post a few pics? If you can, try to get the areas you think need work. As Mike alluded to, I wouldn't take too much apart till you have a chance to really see what you're dealing with - may be uneccesary work. WD-40 and some elbow grease can go a long way in the recusitation (sp?) process.
The first thing I would do is ensure that the motor runs properly, i.e. no smoke, no rattles and clanks, etc.
Is the beam square that the motor head assembly rides on? Are there removeable rods on the beam that the rollers engage? If so then I'd bet yours is the same vintage as mine.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 2/20/2009 3:30 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob, sorry that it has taken so long, but I was on grandbaby duty! Here is try #1 at posting photos of the RAS. My apologies for not being worth a whit as a photographer or phot poster . . .
Dang, my feeble dial-up connection is nearly worn out!
Looks like you have a bit of work to do. That column looks to be pitted with rust - hope I'm wrong.
Man that thang looks older than me. :-)
Does the motor run? If not then you're probably looking at a rebuild at least.
Will the motor carriage move freely back & forth on the beam and does the beam swing easily? Can you raise and lower the motor carriage on the column?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
As near as I can tell, all of the parts that are supposed to move can move, just some more easily than others. The bottom of the column is pretty rusted, but the saw/motor assembly cannot possibly go down where the rust is bad. That part and the slide on the beam movement are both good. Yes, the motor runs without dimming the lights or showering the room with sparks.
Man, that's some kinda rust! I'd get myself a wire wheel on an angle grinder and have at that column.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike, rust on the column is my biggest concern. Next is the "miter movements" of the saw. There are no precise positive stops, and the mechanisms are stiff at best. We'll see how well this beast can be revived.
I only rely on my saw's stops for the most crude work. I generally keep the arm at 90° (set by running the carriage along a framing square) and use an auxilary fence/jig to position the work for angled cuts. If setting the bevel, I use a bevel guage against the blade rather than the saw's settings.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
That's probably the wisest way to go about it. There are arrow type guages on the machine, but I'm sure they are not at all accurate.
Try this link. Lots of info. Your model wasn't listed, but you can put in a request.
http://powertool.manualsonline.com/manuals/device/radial_arm_saw.html
Sears list the saw and have an exploded parts list on line
The manual P/N 63865 is no longer available, but you could try calling 800-325-1184 and see if they can help. It is the Craftsman division of Emerson Electric.
If they truly cannot help you out I would suggest you examine some of the online manuals and see if there is one that is close.
Don
Don & Mike,
Thanks for the links! At least there is a listing for the parts that are available--and for the many that have been discontinued. Just a quick glance at the exploded drawing looks like my machine is intact at least for the most part. (It looks like it may have the original blade or at least one of the original vintage).
The original owner says that he didn't use it much--and that looks to be the case. But he didn't take very good care of it either. It runs as is, but I am toying with the notion of taking it apart and trying to get at some of the rust and make sure that it is reasonably lubricated.
How odd is it that there is no mention of a manual for this critter anywhere on the Web?
Well, the Sears site *mentions* the manual, just says that it's no longer available. ;-(
As for taking it apart, do what you need to do, but I had mine in "storage" for several years (actually in a damp, unheated space) and the column and rails got some rust. A bit of elbow grease, some steel wool and WD-40 got things working fine again -- didn't really have to take it apart at all. Most of the areas that can rust are pretty accessible without disassembly. Mine has an oil port on the front crank (height adjustment) and in the arm, just over the column. And maybe one for the gearing at the bottom of the column -- can't remember for sure, but I think the one at the top does all the column gearing. And there are the bearings the carriage rides on. A couple of drops in these locations, together with working the controls a bit, should get you back in gear.
As has been pointed out, the main thing is to spend the time necessary to get it set up properly, i.e., square to the fence and level with the table. It's a bit of a chore, but it's time well spent.
FWIW, you may wanna get a new blade. (I like Forrest and/or Frued.) Be sure to get one designed for a RAS -- they are designed to reduce the tendency of the saw to pull through the cut, giving you more control over the carriage as you work.
I think I still have my manual around somewhere. If you get stuck, I can probably dig it out and get you a pdf. I don't think it's the same saw, but the workings and adjustment proceedures should be pretty much the same.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Thanks, Mike! From the edges and particularly the underside of the MDO that was on it (now removed) and the rust on the lower part of the column, it looks like this one was stored in a pretty humid environment. The original owner was not a woodworker of any stripe and I'm not sure even why he owned such a machine.
We have grandbaby duty off and on through next weekend, so it may be a little while before I can really get at this. (If all 8 of our precious grandbabies get on a roll, I may disappear to the shop and leave them to grandma for a little bit). Thanks again for your help!
There are several here who own 70's vintage Craftsman RASs, myself included. FWIW, I wouldn't wanna be without mine. (Unless I could find a nice old DeWalt horse!) It's my go-to tool for crosscutting (at least when I'm in plug-in mode.) It seems like Sears doesn't have your manual online (or offline, for that matter), but they do have the exploded drawings and parts here:
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/getModel!retrieve.pd;jsessionid=zfsu4b7d4UPdeAhx4EyKig**.shcapp3306?modelNumber=113.197801&pop=flush
It looks like many of the parts for the saw are no longer available, so check it out to see if there is anything you absolutely need to replace, but can't, before proceeding too far.
Other than the drawings and parts list, the manual is pretty generic anyhow -- just stuff you see in any book on RASs like, don't put your hand in front of the blade, unplug it before changing the blade, some pretty rudamentary "how-tos", etc.
As for the anti-kickback pawl thing, it's use is pretty much limited to, and absolutely necessary for, ripping operations, which should be done on the TS or with a CS, IMHO. The RAS is made for crosscutting -- the TS is made for ripping.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
heart,
I also have an older Craftsman RAS, 70s vintage. I have sung my praises about a RAS many times before here in Knots. Needless to say I am a big fan of these woodbutcherin machines.
If I can help in any way please don't hesitate to ask. I'll start by checking the model # on mine. I have the manual for it also and it gives you a step by step guide to setup. One thing I learned early on is to pay particular attention to each step as the accuracy of each one will effect following steps. VERY IMPORTANT!
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks, I really appreciate that! Mine seems to be a 1974 vintage (guessing from the Serial Code Date). If yours is close and you have the opportunity to drop me an e-mail, I'll give you my mailing address or whatever info you need to make the connection.
There is a recall issued on some of the older Craftsman radial arm saw. If yours can be retrofitted they will send you a new guard assembly and a new table (MDF). If yours can't be done they will buy it back. They also say they will send you a manual.
I retrofitted my one and sent another one back. They send you the box and pay for the shipping.
The 1st link is for the manual they send with the retrofit kit. It has some alignment info and basic use info.
http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/pub/sp5983-2.pdf
http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
From the site
" The carriage of ETC radial arm saws that cannot be retrofitted should be returned to ETC. ETC will provide $100 for the return of the radial arm saw carriage/motor assembly.....
If you have misplaced or no longer have the operating instructions for your model saw, contact ETC by calling the toll-free number or by responding to this web site. We will provide you a copy of the instructions at no charge. "
Hope this helps. Tim
Thanks, Tim! I checked and my model does not have the recall kit available. The CSR who answered the Emerson hotline was very nice. She explained that the problem has only been reported when folks were trying to rip with the RAS. The CSR offered the $100 rebate just to take the saw off my hands, but also offered to mail a manual (which is not in stock).
I suppose I could make money on the deal and invest the $100 on another RAS, but I'm not so sure this one can't be put into service with a little work and some tuning. We'll see . . .
If yours is not in that bad of shape then you might want to keep it and just get it aligned and tuned up. If its gonna take alot of work then maybe the $100.00 deal is better in the long run.
I don't really use mine much ( and never rip with it) and have thought about selling it and my small miter saw and moving up to a sliding miter saw. Still debating that ....
I guess it all depends on what type of work you do and your needs.
Good luck with it.
Tim
Well, three of the grandbabies have returned to Houston and the other five are safely back in Southern Indiana--and guess what? The long awaited owners' manual just arrived from Emerson! There are some fairly detailed instructions that I will need to digest before I tear into the RAS.
Question: when I received the machine it was set up with three pieces of MDO on the forward side of what I assume was a 1 x 2 fence. The manual shows a narrow piece of MDO at the back, then the "fence" and the larger MDO in front of that. The way I received it seems to make more sense, but I will defer to my more learned Knots comrades.
heart,
I've had mine set up as per the manual since I first got it, i.e from the column towards you, narrow piece of MDO, fence and then the wide piece of MDO. I've replaced all of them several times over the years but have kept the same basic setup.
Mine has some adjustment screws that sit in slots on adjustable arms attached to the table frame. It's a bit difficult to explain so I will get some pics tomorrow for you. I do follow the manual very closely as it's one of those all further setup/adjustments depend on previous setups for accuracy things, or some similar wording.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, thanks for responding! Just from casually observing other setups and the way the saw table was put together when I got it, the sensible thing seemed to be to have the greatest possible range of motion in front of the fence. But, my goal is to be as safe as possible, so I will defer to the manual and your good judgement.
Mine had particle board, but arranged like you describe. The fence got replaced several times as it got chewed up pretty badly, but I kept a piece of 1/4" ply on the cutting table. It was a sacrificial piece that also got replaced periodically.
Dave, that seems to make good sense! How did you attach the 1/4" ply? The "original" table was mounted with countersunk bolts.
Edited 3/4/2009 6:32 am ET by heartwould
I used a few wood screws located away from the most commonly used cutting paths (22.5*, 45*, etc). It only took ruining one blade to teach me to check the path before cutting. - lol
Dave, there is a downside to "experiential learning" isn't there?
heart,
Another option for the sacrificial top is to secure it with dowels. Hey Mike, might save a blade! OK, I'll be quiet now. :-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Dowels would surely save blades!
I secured my sacrificial top with spray adhesive (monkey snot) applied to just one item being joined. It was enough to hold it steady, but was still easily removed to be replaced...and no ruined blade.
Harry
Following the path of least resistance makes rivers and men crooked.
harry,
Ahhhh, yet another way to defur the feline, but don't go ape sheit with it!
:-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
The various pieces of MDO are so you can pick one of several locations for the fence. For ripping, the fence snugs up against the mounted front table. For ripping, or certain other operations, like when you need to squeeze another inch or so width on a crosscut, you can use the other piece(es) of MDO as spacers to move the fence back a bit.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I keep a sacrificial table of 1/4" ply over the MDO table. I screw it down with countersunk screws positioned in areas not likely to ever see the blade, and circle them in red just in case I forget to look for 'em on the rare occassion I'm cutting something other than 90°.
Edited 3/4/2009 7:43 am ET by MikeHennessy
Mike, you make good sense in the way you mount the 1/4" ply and then mark the screw placements!
My long range hope is to build a miter/RAS station along the line of the one Norm has in his shop. Of course, first I have to find/build a shop with considerably more space than I have presently.
Being a fellow sufferer of the common disease, lack-of-spaceitis, I have my RAS mounted on a stand that is adjustable, height-wise, so it can live at the end of my bench -- sort of a bench extension with a saw added. I lose the end of the bench, but I gain bench length and and support (at least on one side) for the stock I'm cutting on the RAS.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
PS. And don't ask WHY I now mark the screw heads. Don't wanna go there. But it involves a $100, once-60-tooth blade that now has but 4 teeth. I'm havin' a hard time getting it sharpened. ;-(
Edited 3/4/2009 8:06 am ET by MikeHennessy
Forrest says that they can sharpen any blade, but I'd reckon that they would have to have a blade to work with. Yours might make an interesting wall hanging in your shop. You could always claim that it the result of your own version of the Sawstop.
In my current very small basement shop, my main bench pretty much goes the length of the longest wall. In truth, I really have to shuffle things around whenever a project is underway. If my pension were more generous, I'd build a nice, free-standing shop. As it is, I'm hoping to add a little onto the garage and see how that works. So far the website for the local building code folks is more than confusing and they don't seem to answer their telephone. I'm sure that if I just go ahead and build it, they will come--with a warrant for my arrest!
Yep. Forrest would have been glad to sharpen it, including replacing the teeth -- it was one of their$. But adding all those new teeth would've cost more than the new blade. So it's a boat anchor. Maybe I should sell it on E-Bay as an "antique" and get more'n I originally paid for it? ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
That's sure worth a try! People have been known to get a pretty penny for things less valuable than a wrecked RAS blade on e-bay.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled