I know. I said I was going to buy a SawStop. Actually, I was making the purchase on behalf of my mother, for my dad. She said to get him a new table saw, whatever I thought would suit him. I had all intentions of buying the SawStop. But I didn’t.
I tried to buy the thing over the phone and the guy talked me out of it buying it sight unseen, as there were several options to see, and he recommended I take a first hand look and select the options I wanted. Little did I know then that that would change my choice.
Anyhoo, I drove to my nearest Woodcraft (bout 40 miles away). I was looking and comparing all three SawStops and had finally settled on the Pro model, when I decided to ask some questions about the brake system, changing over to dados, and so on. The more I asked, the more apparent it became that my dad, in spite of the fine safety features, would find these things to be annoying.
(You gotta know him to know what I’m talking about. He just wouldn’t be willing to go through the extra motions without raising holy hellation. I am not putting down your precious SawStop: I am saying I know my dad and I know he would not be a happy camper with this.)
So at that point I asked “what else you got?” We looked at the SteelCity, Powermatic, then got to the new Delta. That machine has some pretty outstanding features that make using a table saw easier. Bigger table top, huge throat plate, both bevel and height wheels on the front, etc.
So that’s what I got. So sue me.
Denny
Edited 12/4/2009 8:38 am ET by blewcrowe
Replies
I have a vehicle with back up sensors. Very handy, except when I get in another without the feature. I need to do a mental reset and pay more attention so nothing gets bumped.
I feel the same way about the Sawstop. I don't want to start up a machine and ask myself; "Is this the machine I can be lazy with and not get hurt?" Accidents can happen anytime, and it seems that table saws are very dangerous. I'm with you blewcrowe, I think the work required using the Sawstop is a downside.
I just hope I don't type a retraction to this post with fewer fingers from a table saw accident. Be safe everyone.
One of the questions I asked was, "What do you in the case of using a dado set?" He said you have to buy a different brake to fit the dado set. Then I asked, "How do you change that?" He went about the steps involved (and he seemed to be quite familiar about how to go about it). And he ran into a couple of glitches, like where some part was supposed to be pulled from out of another, and he couldn't get it out, and so on. The more it went on, the more I knew my dad was not going to go for this.
Aside of that, looks like a fine machine.
Denny
You have to do what is right. The stress associated with having to relearn how he operates the tool could "take his head out of the game" and cause complications.
Don
He's just not the type to deal with this.
Denny
You made the right choice; I have always viewed the Sawstop and something of a crutch and a source of generating carelessness, much like anti-lock brakes and striker fired pistols. Woodworking or driving involves some risk and you should not rely on technology to replace intuition, skill and intelligence. I’ll be more than happy to keep my 1958 Unisaw and my 1911 thank you very much. Just my opinion.
I'm sure it's a great feature that has saved some fingers. My dad, he's a 79 year old farm boy who you'd take for 59 years old. He grew up in the depression, milked cows by hand, plowed fields with mules and crapped in an outhouse. For that reason, he values conveniences on the high side, and looks down on inconveniences. He's the type who will say (and mean it!), "Hey, if I chop my hand off, so be it. I'll take my chances and live with the outcomes."
Denny
Denny,
Good for you for trusting yourself and your instincts and choosing what you felt was best for your dad, rather than what everyone else who doesn't know him recommended. Trust yourself above everyone else.
Too bad I'm a self-employed woodworker - I can't afford a lawyer to sue.
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I had no idea you had to put a different brake on just to do dadoes, makes sense though. I think the Saw Stop is great if you have a bunch of employees and several table saws all set up for different jobs, but for a small shop hobbyist or single owner business it just doesn't make much sense....I made a splitter for my Jet cabinet saw that has a long piece of wood over the blade, makes me feel a lot safer....
I bought mine because eventually every woodworker has a bad day.
http://www.mvflaim.com
Well, there are other ways to cut a dado, like with a router. I'd certainly consider a SawStop for my small business I were in the market for one. That said, I probably would put my current contractor table saw in the wing which I could equip with a dado head.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
What is right for some or most is not necessarily right for everyone.
Thanks.
Denny
Denny - I won't sue you, I applaud you. Good saw, good design.
Your Dad just needs to know where his fingers are with respect to sharp things. Like TS blade, jointer head, BS blade, CMS blade, DP bits, sharp chisel blades.......and so on. How hard can that be?
I don't have a problem with the SS as a saw (but the dado thing is an issue with all the dadoes I do). I just sometimes get annoyed by the small group of accolytes shouting chapter and verse like they are named Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.
Bet he really enjoys the early Christmas present. Your Mom sounds like a peach!!
Blew,
I have the big model of the new Delta, after shaking out a few bugs from being one of the first saws shipped. Delta has gone way out of their way to make things right for me. I know your Dad will be very happy about your choice.
It's funny how you say "they talked me out of buying the SawStop". I went into the local Woodcraft store in Cincy, prepared to spend a lot of money on the flagship Industrial saw. I wanted all the bells and whistles with out. And I knew what it would cost me. The guy at Woodcraft went out of his way to talk me out of the purchase. He never made any suggestion as what else I should buy. I loved the new Unisaw from the moment I had first seen it, it was Love at first sight. My wife and I had many good arguments about spending the extra money on the SawStop. She could not understand how I would take the SawStop over the Delta. She was telling me that the only reason I wanted the SawStop was because it is the highest price table in the store.
Well you should have seen the look on her face when she seen that big ol' Delta piled up in the shop. Would you believe she was pissed, big time. She wouldn't talk to me for a day and a half.
I just posted a review of my Delta here on FWW.com yesterday.
Just don't let the ol' man cut his hand off or your Mom may take your head off!!!
"You gotta know him to know what I'm talking about." My father-in-law lived to be 102 -- he didn't get there by being a mellowed-out ever-flexible pushover. So, I know exactly what you're talking about!! ROFL!
Good on ya for knowing what's best and take care of it!
I'm another one who think's you made the right choice. If I were in the market for another table saw that's the one I would purchase also. I'm sure Pop's will love it!
Edited 12/5/2009 12:32 am ET by brownman
Buy or build your Dad a simple push shoe or stick and he won't get a scratch. Ever. A crosscut sled, either aftermarket or shop built, provides safety and accuracy on crosscuts and makes building with sheet goods much easier if there are plans to do that.
Bare hands pushing wood in line with the blade causes amputations. Using a shoe or a stick puts hands out of harms way.
Keep all guards intact and make sure the blade height is the minimum required to make the cut. Don't dial the blade to its highest height to cut quarter inch material. Take the time to lower it.
Use featherboards for accuracy and an added measure of safety.
Edited 12/5/2009 7:12 am ET by Marsupial
That's great advice and it doesn't take much time. Just develop the habit of keeping those hands away from the blade and using the push sticks.
BC,
You did some good thinking. But....... I thought about the new Delta Unisaw. I work part time at a Woodcraft. I also know the folks at the Black and Decker facility near Baltimore where they do development of new tools for Delta, DeWalt, etc.
My mind wandered....... Delta had been one of the greatest tool companies in the world. Then they went downhill. Some folks left to do Steel City, which went South. Stuff changed hands. Black and Decker bought Delta. I cringed. Then Stanley bought Black and Decker. So I thought, is this a "Delta" unisaw, or a "Black and Decker" Unisaw.
I sincerely hope that Stanley's new direction for Black and Decker's direction for Delta is a good one. How can I tell? I look for clues. I examined and used the new Stanley handplanes that were recently sent to the Woodcraft stores. EGAD, they are six steps backwards. I was really hoping Stanley was going to turn things around and go for the grandeur they once had. I was soundly disappointed
When one pays $3000 or so for a tool, one wants some assurance that the company will be there in five years to provide any parts or service that might be needed.
I have looked at the Delta tools such as the drill press a 14" bandsaw. Such tools have not, IMHO, kept up with the competitors. Except for the Unisaw, Delta seems to me to continue on a downhill slide. So, should I hope that Stanley will support Black and Decker in their support of Delta in keeping the Unisaw a good product, while the other tools slip?
You can see that I have my doubts. What is happening with the tools that Delta and DeWalt both used to make? Some are being dropped? What is the plan? What will be Stanley's plan for reducing overlap between these brands?
I wish I knew. You did your thinking and stayed away from the Sawstop. I did my thinking, and decided to stick with my old contractors saw, and let Stanley see what they want to do with what Black and Decker wants to do with what Delta and DeWalt wants to do. THis stuff gives me a headache. I think I am moving in the direction of hand tools.
I believe your new Unisaw is a great saw. I am concerned about the future of the line, not the present. Good luck with your saw and your woodworking. I like the way you think.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Denny,
You are the one that knows your Dad’s patients level.
It does take extra time to change the brake with the dado. Be sure to check the spacing too or you may be buying a new brake & dado (or repair the dado). The brakes can get stuck sometimes. I’ve seen the SawStop Rep use the blade wrench to pop off the brake.
I don't understand why people think your mindset changes when you get a SawStop. All of a sudden you can’t tie your shoes in the morning, and have to think, "Is this the machine I can be lazy with and not get hurt?" If it makes you work like a fool, ignoring safety, then you should put it on Craigslist and take up a new profession/hobby today.
Your Dad will love his new saw.
Doug
Talk to Sarge about modifications to make it easier to use a riving knife on that saw. He's got a good home-built dust control solution for a blade guard too.
Will do. Thanks.
Denny
Denny,
I talked with my lawyer and he said I don't have a chance in he11! Some lawyer he used to be, HAH!
Like father like son mebbe? I can relate to his feelings about tools. If ye gotta fuss with 'em to get 'em to work right, then..... Oh and I am a Uni fan also so ye did the right thang.
Are ye selling a lot of trees? The stands out my way are doing real good inspite of the economy. Lot's of spirit around this year.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
We are not in the "tree business" exactly. Ours runs more to the shrub and perennial side. Business sucks. Worst year in 35. Frankly, we're scared to death. We (as most small biz people we talk to) fear what the government has up its sleeve, and how much it will cost: we don't have any squiggle room.
Denny
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