I have two old button release hand braces and want to know how to find the notched bits that would work with it? It seems you can get all kinds of tapered bits but it is hard to find the noched ones. Can tapered bits be filed to be used this way? Any advise would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott
Replies
Nothing to help you but I did find this information.. Something I never knew.
http://www.leevalley.com/newsletters/woodworking/1/1/patents.htm
I never knew old braces had bits like that (I have one very old one early 1900' WWI issue). I have only the brace! No bits!
Reminds me of my old Craftsman 'Yank' push screwdriver. No bits I can find, They had a small notch to hold them in place.. Dang.. I loved that thing...
Try http://www.garrettwade.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&itemID=112536
They might work, but I'am sure you can find them for a better price.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Thanks for the post... I have seen before when looking for bits.
I will put my 'oldie' in a box and order an new one from them... I actually only use them for drilling small holes. Never use other bits. But it looks like they have a 'set' with just about everything. I may even use it for other than drilling.
Again.. thanks for the reminder!
Will,
Check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com/CRAFTSMAN-DD-9-4221-YANKEE-TYPE-DRILL%2FDRIVER-EX-COND!!_W0QQitemZ120279923208QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0807051475r37162
Also, Google craftsman yankee drill bits and there are several others too.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks Bob..
I have one but the bits I had for it would bend very easily. OK so it was probably MY fault! Being short is kind of nice though.
I will not use PayPal.. I had a issue once.. Not sure who's fault (mine or theirs) but... Just me...
I know folks that LOVE it.. as in PayPal!
Edited 7/9/2008 1:27 pm by WillGeorge
scott,
You can still find the old bits with notched tangs from time to time at flea markets and antique shops. But, different brace makers used different latch mechanisms, and there was no real standard as to the location of the notches. I suppose this encouraged the owner to get his bits from the same supplier as the brace. So, it may be as simple to buy a new set of bits, and file the notches yourself, so they will engage properly.
Ray
Unfortunately, the full range of bits that were designed to work with these braces are no longer being manufactured. However, you can get one of the profiles - the shell bit - as a newly re-manufactured item from Clifton. http://www.thebestthings.com sells a set of these bits, and I'm sure there are other retail outlets for them as well.
The other styles of bits that typically were sold with push-button pad braces were nose bits (resemble shell bits except with a integrated cutter on the inside of the end of the shell), center bits, and auger bits. The nose bits are very hard to find, probably because they're a much older style that are not nearly as effective in most applications as center bits. Center bits are really easy to find - at just about any flea market, and every week on e-bay.
None of these bits perform nearly as well as the Russell Jennings pattern screw-tipped auger except for narrow applications. Specifically, the shell bits allow re-adjusting the angle of the hole after drilling commences, which the RJ pattern augers will not.
Finally, any of the 4-sides tapered tang bits can usually be made to work quite well in push button pad braces by filing a small notch on two adjacent corners of the tang. I suspect that was typically done by the brace maker, who purchased the sets of brace bits from a large supplier in Sheffield and filed the notches in the appropriate place.
The bits were filed by the user for specific braces. I recommend you not do this. Usually there is enough friction to retain the bits untouched. You must be careful however, if you are working with a center bit over a concrete floor. They can fall out and the fall can ruin them.
I think Dkeller is referring to spoon bits. Not seen new shells. Nose bits are fantastic. They were designed for boring end grain and cut like nothing else in this application. Center bits and shells easily out perform augers for cabinet work. They must be carefully sharpened. One advantage of using shells is that they don't tear out the back of the hole. Center bits are wonderful to use and were used for inlay. Lacking a lead screw gives much better control over depth and the size of shaving than an auger. This is particularly helpful for very hard woods. Augers are really for cutting deep holes in softer woods. They are really carpentry tools.
I love center bits so much, I may try to reproduce some of them before I am done making 18th c tools.
Adam
Indeed Adam - I've seen "shell bits" and "spoon bits" used interchangeably in several books (perhaps incorrectly). My comment about the Russell-Jennings pattern auger bits taking over in the late 19th century over the earlier designs was indeed geared toward carpentry, since by that time most hand-tool use was confined to on-site carpentry (most furniture was made in factories by the mid to late 19th century).
The advantage of the Russell-Jennings is that the screw at the end of the auger pulls the auger into the work, and requires very little back pressure from the user. Earlier designs required the user to put a good deal of force behind the brace, hence the beefy designs of early braces (you'd quickly bend an American iron brace such as a Stanley 923 into a pretzel without RJ auger bits).
The very small point of the screw thread on the end of one of these augers also meant that it was a trivial matter to put the hole in an accurate location. The earlier designs (the nose and shell bits, not the center bit) required the user to excavate a small starter hole where he desired the larger hole to go - at least one late 18th century cabinetmaker complained about just that disadvantage.
All of that aside, I, like Adam, enjoy using the earlier designs. And he's quite right about them being more controllable. Since the distance they'll travel into the wood is dependent on the back pressure the user puts on them, you can use a light touch and go very slowly. A Russell-Jennings pattern bit's progress into the wood is dependent on the pitch of the auger and the speed of rotation of the bit, not the back pressure that the user puts on it. In fact, if you press too hard on an RJ bit, you'll strip the threads that the tip spiral has tapped into the wood, and the bit will stop cutting.
The easy way to keep shells and spoons separate in your head is you could eat soup with a spoon bit. It would hold water. A shell bit is like a spoon with it's end cut off. You could eat soup with it.Shells were available in the small sizes center bits were not. I also have very small spoons with pointy ends. I don't see these as all that helpful. In use, they don't feel similar to rounded ended chairmaker's bits (see attached). Swiss pattern gimlets are another popular bit style. I don't care much for these either.Regarding starter holes, what is your source there? Starter holes are not required for any of these bits. Shells and nose bits actually start quite nicely when they are sharp. These tools need to be as sharp as chisels. The secret to getting them to a precise location is ratcheting them and practice. I wrote about this in a recent article. There is also an advantage when drawboring. Typically when you first drill the hole, the mortise is already cut and the tenon is removed. With a shell or spoon, the bit stays on course as you free fall through the mortise. The center bit takes a bit more care as the hole cannot guide it. It's important to remember this little discussed fact: center bits are all asymmetrical Not only is their width not the diameter of the hole, the lip doesn't cut to the full diameter. The cut produced by the spur is crucial.In terms of brace force, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Early augers? The center, shell, and spoon bits require little downward pressure to operate when sharp. I make my own wooden braces. I think when these bits get dull, folks who don't know how to sharpen them pushed too hard and broke the fine old braces. Likewise, I see no reason to use a plated brace or a metal brace, although I have the latter for auger bits. My guess would be that metal braces were cheaper and easier to make than wooden ones. Wooden braces are fairly tricky to make. As to lead screw clogging, my experience is that the root cause is always dull cutters. When the cutters are sharp and the correct lead screw is used for the species you are working, these things sail through wood. But these are really more carpenters' tools. I found them necessary work bench building, but use them infrequently now.Adam
P.S. Salaman is a good reference for different sorts of bits.
Thank you all for the information. There doesn't seem to be much information on the bits for these. I got both braces for a deal and now I have a feeling why. I do have whole sets of the auger type bits that everyone is mentioning that were used in the late 19th century along with braces to fits them. I would like to use the button braces as well.
I think I would also like to make a brace that I could just make pad bits to fit(someday).
Adam - That's not quite true about center bits (depending on what you call "small"). I've a set that is graduated and goes from 1/2" down to a rather tiny 1/8". It's possible, of course, that these bits were made in the mid 19th century (english marks were often subbed out, so it's hard to date a metal tool by its stamp), and the little ones weren't made earlier.
I've a set of spoon bits, but no nose or shell bits. Sounds like an excellent excuse to go hunting at the flea market on Saturday. ;-)
Unfortunately, I can't give you a reference for the quotation about pre-gouging a depression for a brace bit - it's going to take some searching. I've enough books and am voracious enough of a reader that the title page of a book I've read that has an interesting quotation or tidbit fades fairly quickly.
The force on a brace is also mentioned in this book, and the author speculates that was the reason for the continental-style bib brace, where the "head" of the brace fit into a harness to be worn on the user's chest. In such a way, body weight can be used instead of arm pressure.
From the standpoint of Russell-Jennings pattern bits, I've had the experience of the lead screw stripping the wooden threads on a fair number of occasions, until I learned not to put pressure in the vertical direction on it. This typically happens in soft woods, though I've also had it happen in mahogany. Note that I'm specifying the R-J pattern augers - I'm aware of earlier designs that didn't have the lead screw, so those may be a bit different.
And trust me, they're razor sharp - us carvers take that sort of thing to obsession levels. ;-)
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