No Grizzly Shop Planner, any alternatives?
Grizzly posted this well over 1 1/2 years ago, but they didn’t come through with a new version. Anybody see any alternatives? I haven’t. And just to keep this on-track, no “cut out your own pieces of paper/cardboard and lay them on your hand drawn plan” posts please. Thanks!
Grizzly Shop Planner V2 Coming Soon
Google has announced that the Flash platform, on which Grizzly’s Workshop Planner was built, is no longer supported and will be blocked in the Chrome web browser starting in January 2021.
Our developers are using this time as an opportunity to modernize and update the shop planner to include new features, new machines, and to utilize modern technologies that will work on all common web browsers going forward.
We thank you for your patience as we work hard on version 2 of our workshop planner. Keep an eye on this page and the homepage for updates as they become available.
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Unless you start with so much floor space that you need one of those carts with beeping lights to travel between machines no plan works. Eventually you will get to the point where you need a bigger shop or end up with a policy where if something comes into the shop then something has to go out. Moving little cut outs on graph paper works but wouldn't any Autocad program do what you want to do? I can't even imagine how a "shop planner" could be beneficial. We all have our individual requirements ,a program can't know that. A tool manufacturer creating a shop planner could however use it as a platform to sell you tools!
I'm not familiar with Grizzly Shop Planner, but if you google "Floor plan software" or "Shop plan software" you will get lots of suggestions. Like
Pantalones868, it seems to me that most any CAD software would do the job.
Maybe you never saw their planner, and maybe you have a CAD program. But for those of us that have and don’t, it was a great free tool, only gone because it was Flash based, which is no longer. They had exact scaled moveable 2d plan models of their machines. No matter how big or small your shop, trying to maximize your space is way easier by moving little pieces around on a plan than moving the actual machines, and quicker than drawing each one separately in a CAD program. In my case, I’ve added a couple of machines recently, and if there was a Grizzly planner equivalent out there I would be able to drag machines around to see how best to use my space without straining my back or cutting out dozens of little cardboard pieces.
Use 2D Sketchup or Autocad. Done.
I guess I should have added to my original post “please don’t suggest that I learn a CAD program just for this”. If you don’t know what their planner was, or don’t know of an equivalent, feel free to scroll by.
You asked for alternatives...as in "any alternatives?"
And as I said above, I should have asked to keep it to the intent of my search, for a similar app. What happens way too often in these forums goes something like this: “I’m looking for any alternative for my Subaru Outback.” “You should get a motorcycle.” :-)
Motorcycles are more fun than an Outback. But an Outback can carry more. Though Motorcycles have an advantage in efficiency and space savings... Personally I own both and wouldn't be happy with either on it's own. Perhaps one of the European hybrid models, like a Ural, Could do the job of both. But I don't have much experience with those and it could be hard to get parts.
Good graph paper, tape measure, 0.5mm mechanical pencil, and dedicated eraser worked for me. No CAD or cardboard..
Same here. Time well spent because you tend to think through workflow / elbow room a bit more when you take the time to physically draw it out.
And you dragged all the machines around the room by erasing each one and redrawing them in new places?
Not the machines, but their larger, simpler, infeed/outfeed footprints. Lightly drawn and easily visualized. Get the good green graph paper, set a scale and outline your shop walls, permanent fixtures, and door swings in pen. One or two moves and it'll all fall in place pretty quick.
Last year before moving in to my new home 3 car garage shop I purchased a book from the Home Woodworker Series called “Home Workshop Setup”. It had a scaled graph with machine cut outs that were to scale. I used the heck out of that and it saved me a lot of time and back pain. Once I finished it I only moved two machines for the sake of efficiency.
How about a black board and chalk?
I use an excel or numbers spreadsheet. First I set the grid square so each cell is 1 foot X 1 foot. Then I measure the footprint of each machine, table or storage rack and use the shapes, rectangle, circle etc to draw each one and drag the shape to their location. I also put an arrow to show the direction of feed. Works well.
3 shop expansions + remodels, and 3 iterations of dust collection ducting.....lots of "plans" ended up in the trash.
Think about work flow, maximum efficiency to dimension lumber, where you're going to assemble. Stand in your space and get a 2x4 and visualize milling, then cutting to length.
Often the table saw determines where everything else goes.Ultimately you figure out the work flow. Don't hard duct anything until you've used the machines a while.
Thanks,
I have an existing shop. As I said, I added a couple of machines, so looking how to incorporate them into my existing workflow without major disruption. The Grizzly planner was a very fast way to rearrange things to see how efficient things might be. Good tip on the hard duct delay.
Thanks for all, or most :-) of the comments and suggestions. The Grizzly Shop Planner was a shop-specific very fast way to move already drawn tools and machines around a quickly created floor plan. No CAD program, chalk, or spreadsheet could do that. But the answer to my simple question seems to be a simple no.
"No CAD program"?...not correct. I suspect if you had some experience with them you wouldn't say that either. You can get all sorts of tools (see link following) and use them/scale them/move them within a simple 2D plan i.e. "your shop". You can make a simple 2D outline of other tools e.g. For all the time writing and reading this thread a simple plan could have been accomplished in Sketchup. It would take one about the same time to learn the Grizzly app as Sketchup plus or minus.
https:///collection/80a996a1dddd788439f8afeea95c6cfc/Woodworking-Machinery-Shop-Tools-Workbenches
For free? Without having to learn a CAD program? Geez, let's get down into the weeds. :-) The point is, anyone could immediately move a shop around, no learning curve, no cost, no time-consuming "I wonder if there's a template for this machine" hunting in template libraries.
By the bye, it took me under ten seconds to find those Sketchup woodworking models
And another 10 seconds to learn Sketchup? I'm done with this silliness.
Pencil & paper
Yes, I'm serious. The software can be helpful to some, but with everyone's shop being so individualized, the best the software can do is get close.
I'd consider making 3d cutouts and move those around on a graph. We think about the footprints of our machines and workflow around them but the varying heights of things can interfere with that. The top of my old jointer without the fence was lower than the top of my tablesaw and even with the fence lower than my bandsaw. I recently replaced that with a combo machine and the bed is 1/2" higher than the tablesaw and that's a new problem. The tablesaw and the jointer / planer are generally side by side because that is where my maximum length is. I went for the combo machine because i believed it would give me more space. Also if the fence is on the combo machine or if its set up to plane it's higher than my bandsaw. The jury is still out on that thing. I planned to sell my old jointer but I havent gotten around to it and its clearly in my way but if the combo machine is set up to plane and dialed in to something Im working on and I need to join something well there's the old jointer sitting there...The combo machine is taking up critical space in the 3rd dimension that I never considered or didn't consider enough.
I have a mark on my wall that is the center of my shop ,if I line up my sawblade on the tablesaw with the mark I get the maximum length of cut inside my shop. I have big doors on both ends of my shop if I need to rip or plane long boards. 20' no problem! Everything is on wheels so I can reconfigure the shop to accommodate whatever project I'm doing. If I need floor space for assembly I can push things out of the way. I move things around alot! I've given up on doors on any low storage because if I move something too close and then need something in there I can't open the door to get it without moving my set up.
I've always had a shop at my house but I had a much larger shop where I worked. I lost that when someone decided to trade in his wife for a new model so I retired from woodworking --to take up woodworking. It's much better this way,I only do what I want! My woodworking business was based around a lot of architects ,designers and wealthy home owners that had thumbed through a copy of Architectural Digest and had opinions. It worked for me, i made a living as a woodworker. Some of it however was just a job. I have a commission for a coffee table that I'm working on right now. What it is ,well I won't even discuss it! Don't like it? Don't buy it! In fairness if I know a little bit of where their tastes are or if I know where it's going I'll consider that. Is their house arts and craft or was it designed by Mies?
I do find working in limited space challenging though!
And your new boss was an a**hole, right? :-) That's what I always told people who didn't know I owned my own company when they asked me how my job was. "It's ok, but my boss is an A*hole"
Grizzley Shop Planner appears to be gone and you nor anyone else appears to know when or if it is coming back. It's gone. Get over it. You asked for alternatives, but what you really want is for Shop Planner to return. Understood, but It apparently ain't gunna happen. You have been given some good advice. Pick one and go forward.
Mine is a little different. Someone comes by-- "who's in charge here?" " Oh, your looking for Godot, he's not here right now. Wanna wait?"
I don't do much with cad myself. I prefer to sketch ,then scale draw and then sometimes draw at full scale. Those Boston guys are real big on full scale drawings and sometimes I see the advantage but if I was building a railroad would I need a full scale drawing? I like the drawing, it takes time and time gives you an opportunity to think things through. Sometimes the whole thing in in my head and I just need to assign numbers. I have a son however who is really good with tech stuff. Builds rockets and such. Computers and 3d printers , lasers,cnc are easy for him. I will assign anything in that realm to him. He'll be done before I have it turned on. He lives pretty close by but these days that isnt even necessary. All of that stuff has its place and can be really useful and analog guys such as myself are kind of dinosaurs.
Take heart, all the post-apocalyptic dystopian books and films always show the analogue guys winning in the end. :-)
I agree....some draft paper and paper cut outs work great!!!
I think "SketchUp" still have a free version and if you google "SketchUp 3D Warehouse" you can find various Grizzly tools to download.
I tried paper and pen, I tried Sketchup.
Neither were helpful though sketchup does allow you to create machine sized boxes very quickly with almost no learning curve at all.
They don't really give you the 'feel' of the machine - having to shimmy round a sharp corner, or where the mitre bar sticks out if you leave it on the saw, that the tubing for the sucker is in the way of taller projects, or that it's almost impossible to run the pipe to a machine right there...
I had a friend who has been a pro woodworker for years come and help design the flow but in the end it all sort of morphed into what it is today semi-organically.
For me there was only one really good place to put the table saw, so there is went. Then the band saw needed to have miles front and back as I work with some long (3-4M) pieces on that sometimes so that had to be near a door. The sharpening station needed to be by the sink.
I have a pillar supporting a mezzanine and it was convenient to have the power for the planer/thicknesser run down that and before you know it, everything sort of had its place.
I keep a few things on castors (sanders of various types) and the router table is portable (have I mentioned how crap Triton router tables are before, I think I have...) to shuffle around. My assembly table is also on wheels.
That having been said, I would love a tool to play with and to try new layouts - moving 1/3 tonne machines is not fun after all, but in the end my best advice is to have a friend come and talk it over with you. If it doesn't work out, at least you'll have someone to blame!
You can use tracing paper to draw the machine foot prints once per page and then move the pages around to see what fits. Tracing paper will allow you overlay a number of "foot print"drawings and move them around as you see fit. You can also put the tracings on a light table or up against a window to see through the layers more effectively. No computers, no software, no learning curve.
I agree....some draft paper and paper cut outs work great!!!
However I have found that multiple plans need to be made, because
1. Changes are going to be inevitable
2.The electrical and lighting plans NEED to be done carefully as they tend to be permanent. Supply enough power to the shop that is double what is anticipated and provide option to go to 220)
3. Dust collection needs to anticipate possible locations and amount power required to service them
This is a functioning wood shop, with lots of 240v machines, so not an issue, simply added a new bigger 25-50" drum sander and a 2nd shaper, just looking for the ease of the old Grizzly planner. Nothing more.
Woodcraft has a "Dream Shop Planner" you can download for around 6 bucks. It's a paper grid system.
Thanks, I’ll check it out!
I just moved to a new house a year ago and did what you're doing. I used Sketch Up. I think there's still a free version which would probably do. I drew the available space, and I made rectangles for each machine's footprint. My design came pretty close -- I made some changes but not too many. It's a good way to make sure there are no fatal flaws -- a post that totally gets in the way of three machines, that sort of thing. But in the end, you have to stand in the space and see how it is to move around, how much clearance you have between machines, etc. Also helpful if you're laying out the dust control part -- you want to avoid overly long runs and too many turns.
Have you tried Google SketchUp? They say it’s suitable for woodworking design applications. And you can look for your tool models in its library. EasyShop Shop Designer is another option available. Microsoft also has this Visio Woodshop Stencils and Templates is paid but touted to be better in detail and shading than the Grizzly.
Sketch Up is owned now by Trimble.
And it's not as easy as it once was.
I've been using Sweet Home 3d, a free home design software that is super simple CAD, with drag and drop layout. You can download 3d models from 3D warehouse (Sketchup) and import them into Sweet Home 3d. You can see an overhead view or 3d render.
Much easier than Sketchup because the tool is very targeted towards rooms and "furniture".
That's it, finally, the answer! Thanks! No having to learn a CAD program, even a simpler app like Sketchup, ready-made models available, as you said, from Sketchup's 3D warehouse. Plan or full 3D view, rotation, etc. Perfect! Thanks again!
One thing I recommend is to use their grouping function. Then you can put a generic box around the tool in the workspace (like a sheet of plywood on in and outfield), and as you move the tool, the box moves as well indicating the clearance required. Or, like I did, just use the measure tool.
Good tip!
Haven’t spent much time with Sweethome yet, but downloaded it and then downloaded a bunch of 3D models from the 3D Warehouse yesterday. There are some very specific models there, like my exact Sawstop PCS saw, for example. This super quick tool is even better than my original plea for a Grizzly Shop Planner alternative because I can see my exact machines, or in some cases similar machines, in plan, elevation, or perspective/3D mode.