Greetings fellow sawdust makers. I am a hobbyist woodworker looking to expand the tool arsenal. I need a biscuit joiner. I am making some cabinets, out of melamine, and the only way to join gables with floors or tops, without seeing screws, is by using biscuits. I borrowed my dads old canwood. Not too good. Depth gauge tightens on one side only and not parallel with the blade. I looked at the Porter Cable(MODEL 557). Looks good but no lock once depth is set for the fence. Does this matter. Norm doesnt seem to mind, I think he uses Porter Cable. The DeWalt looks ok too. (MODEL DW682K) Any advice or preferences or tips would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Replies
Hey Sawdust, You will never be sorry if you buy a lamello machine....they are the cadies of the lot and they are engineered VERY cleanly....they DO cost more by a fair piece but if you ever get to use one you will always want to have one as I found out many years ago....the others are ok I'll bet, mainly look for a "tight' machine and the fencing set up. DO compare and as always buy the best you can afford. CKECK OUT LAMELLO.COM for more about the best you can buy, then search out your best price...even sending "out" for one and avoiding the sales tax can off-set a little the higher price. T
Edited 4/27/2005 11:32 pm ET by zorro
Edited 4/27/2005 11:46 pm ET by zorro
PS....you don't have to have their top of the line to be extremely content with the Lamellos...they work soooooo smooth. T
I have the PC and have think its fine. Its definitely better than the dewalt, freud, etc but I get the lamello is the tops. I haven't tried the lamello and for the amount of time I use it, its just too much $$ to justify. The cheaper lamello is $350 and the top model is $600+. They sell them at amazon.com so you can see the pricing differences with the different brands.
Don't be influenced by Norm, he is sponsored by PC/Delta so he gets paid by them and they give him all the free tools he wants.
Heres a link to a thread about the lamello c2 last week at the JLC forum. If your not a member yet, its free and a very very good site, most are members here (i.e. breaktime, tool talk, knots) and JLC. http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26132
DDay
Regarding the use of the Lamello biscuit jointer, if you look closely Norm Abram has from the begining used the lamello however the name has been taped over. In Norm's defence as if he needed it he uses every body's tools, He is not in anyone's pocket. Even though Delta and porter cable sponsers the program almost in every case the name 's are always taped so it does not appear. I also have the first Porter Cable biscuit jointer and it works fine. If I had lots of spare cash I would buy the Lamello. You can run it 24 7 and it really runs like a Swiss watch. I lost out on the expensive one at an auction that sold for $25.00. I was talking when I should have been listening and not paying attention. Oh well thats life.
[email protected]
T.O.
Edited 4/29/2005 3:17 am ET by Woodmann
Edited 4/29/2005 3:18 am ET by Woodmann
$25? That hurts. Yesterday I just say a brand new airless paint sprayer I've been looking for selling for $499, retail is $1100. I called on it but I was a few hours too late.<!----><!---->
I remember seeing the lamello a few times, and you'll see a senco brad nailer in older shows but 99% are pc and delta. All those shows, TOH, New Yankee workshop, etc all black out, tape, etc the name except who their sponsors are. Its funny when you see them using a yellow and black drill and they block the label like people won't know what it is. All the shows are corrupt in ways though. Last week their was a post over on Breaktime of a copper roofing contractor who met Tom Silva and tried to get on TOH. Silva had seen this man's work and thought it was top notch and said "I can probably get you on but you'll definitely need to volunteer your labor and almost definitely donate the materials." The workshop show is a little different because it is just a demo type promo for the pc and delta tools but the other shows, especially TOH, you can tell exactly who is donating free products for the house being built and who is not. A few months ago, I saw a 15 minute segment on Generac stand by generators in a 30 minute show. They also Drop names like Bob <!----><!----><!---->vila<!----><!----> with some products and don't say anything about others.<!---->
The kitchen cabinets of their most recent house were plain and fancy. They most have said plain and fancy 10 times in two shows. It was like John Kerry talking about <!---->Vietnam<!---->, ask him a question about health care and he'll start by saying "I was in <!----><!---->vietnam<!----><!---->, so I know something about healthcare." TOH is the same, "We're using plain and fancy cabinets, ...these plain and fancy cabinets look great, ...plain and fancy have great hardware choices, etc.<!---->
I'm not saying TOH, Norm or anyone else is unethical but what I see them using is not a factor in my opinions at all. Most likely pc/delta gave all the tools for free and were still willing to be the highest payer above that. Norm almost certainly doesn't have a say in that, the producers probably told him, pc/delta is the best contract so that’s who we're using. I'm sure if he were to buy his own tools and look for the best, it would be a kreg pocket hole machine, not the pc and it would be a euro table saw and not a delta and the jig saw would be a festool, etc.
Edited 4/29/2005 7:58 am ET by DDay
I've owned both the Dewalt and the PC.
Both are good tools, the PC is a bit more versatile with their mini biscuits and their handle placement it better.
I think you would be happy with either, I just needed (or thought I needed) the smaller biscuit option for face frames. I now use pocket screws so that isn't an issue.
Nice feature of the Dewalt is that the base design allows it to be screwed to a surface which would be handy for jigging.
The Dewalt is definitely a good deal, I think they're only about $150 and can be had for less used on Ebay.
check out this link too.
54386.13
Thanks for the insight. Lamello sounds like the Mercedes and the PC like a Toyota or Honda which are both synonomous with reliability but they arent Benz's. Same old.......buy what you can afford, but also number of times used in a year should probably enter the equation. 3 - 4 uses per year is tough to justify $479.00 CAD as opposed to $ 279.00 CAD (PC)
I have the same feeling. A Benz S55 AMG is a very nice car but for $155k it should be but unless you have money to burn, I couldn't justify that.
If you do go with the pc, when you get it home, do what I suggested in that link and fill in the hollow channel on that pivot hinge. I like everything about the joiner, the handle placement, the dust port, power, accuracy, etc but that pivot is horrible. Once I put in that plastic epoxy its very smooth and haven't had a problem. I also put a drop of oil in once in a while.
Thanks for your insight DDay
Any chance for a photo of your fix? I haven't gone down to open the case yet but I'm all for tweaking to help longevity.I'm generally pretty happy with it, just need to get a decent hose to hook up to the DC in the shop. That bag fills too fast and leaving it off is pretty messy. But thats what I usually do rather than have to unclog it every ten minutes.
I don't have a digital camera, so can't get you a pic. I can expain what I did very easily though.
The two pivots are black plastic and are held on by two small screws. Take both of those off and you'll see a half moon shaped curve that is 1/8" or so wide, you'll see that it is basically hollow. I have a mechanic friend who works at a medium sized auto body shop, garage, etc. I took the two new pivot parts over there, the originals were crushed up pretty good, that's how I discovered the poor design. They gave me a plastic epoxy that they use on cars and just squeezed some into the hollow portion. I used a popsicle stick and toothpick to push it in completely, then I just let it dry. Once it was dry I cleaned it up by hand with some 150 grit sandpaper and made it look exactly like before only not hollow. It was very easy to do and only took 20 minutes excluding the epoxy set up time.
The shame of it all was about a month before I saw reviews on amazon.com about the pc557 with some complaining about a similar problem, the jamming/crushing of the pivot. At that time I just figured it was a small group or hard users and it hadn't been a problem for me, so I thought mine was not affected. Then making a bookcase the fence felt funny and the following day blah. I think what happened to me and other is either sawdust builds up in the track or a small chip of wood gets in there and when you move the fence, the pivot crushes. It isn't as if I forced the fence though, its really because the part is hollow and has no strength to it. So once the slightest pressure is put on this hollow curve, it gets mis-shaped and won't work.
If I can, I'll borrow a digital camera this weekend and try to post a picture of the finished pivot.
I have a digicam and here is what I think you are referring to.So basically just reinforce these little mini trunnions to avoid some unexpected downtime?
That looks like it. You just take them off and fill them with something that is hard and will bond to the plastic. I can't understand why they are not metal or aluminum but if those tracks for the fence were at least filled it would be fine. They put those little cross pieces as if it would add strength but they really do nothing.
When mine broke I checked with pc to see if they had an improved replacement part, either aluminum or filled in plastic but nope, no changes at all. If I remember right those little pieces were $5 a piece and I know if I did not improve them myself, they would have failed again.
Check this thread over the weekend and I'll try to get that picture up. I think the epoxy was a gray color so it should contrast well with the black pivot piece and show you what the finished piece looks like.
Quick pic before I clean things up and reassemble.Filled with JB Weld, seems like any epoxy would do. But any paste would be easier to work with.I'll likely post this on its own thread in case there are any other PC 557 owners that might want to do some preventative maintenance.Thanks for the tip.
That's how mine looks when its done. Just clean it up with some light hand sanding and your done. I just put a drop of oil (I used air gun oil just because it was right next to me and I was lazy) in each side to make sure it moved without friction.
I saw the thread on knots, its wasn't necessary to credit me but thank you.
I have two 557's (one set up for Face frame, the other for "normal buscuits) and one dewalt. There is a Ryobi in the junk pile.
Both the 557's that I have lock the fence, and work well. The Dewalt was the best when I bought it, but the 557's are so much more versatile.
The Dewalt stays in the drawer most of the time.
To me the fence is the most important part, the rest of the machine is just an angle grinder with a blade.
Eric
in Calgary
I hav a Ryobi biscut jointer in the junk pile too.
Have a nice day Lee
Hi
I have a Dewalt biscut jointer .It is a real good tool.
Have a nice day Lee
Sawdust:
Can you join them by face framing? You may need new tools for that, too, but they aren't as expensive. Just asking.
RoRo
Hi,
Don't forget to look at the Makita 3901. Its a great piece of kit. OK, it can't do those tiny face-frame biscuits, but otherwise, its easy to adjust, accurate once set, very well built, and, well, just so nice to use.
Best regards,
Kevin
i carry the pc in my truck all the time and have one in the shop, both are 557 model
easily adjustable, although i rarely have to
for general cabinet work? you cant beat a biscuit joiner, much better than dowels or screws
caulking is not a piece of trim
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