I am setting up a shop in a new house. I’ll have plenty of room at last. In the past I had a Craftsman saw but this time want something sturdy, as vibration free as possible, and reliable. A dealer suggested the Powermatic 66. Another friend said I should look at the Dewalt semi-cabinet saw. It is less expensive but I’m not sure it isn’t worth the cost difference to got to the Powermatic. All suggestions are appreciated.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
You will never regret the better saw, you might also look at the delta unisaw they have a left tilt version that is a bit less than the powermatic. If you ever decide to sell either you will get a lot more money for a used powermatic or unisaw than you would the Dewalt.
Troy
Do you think that a left tilt is that much better than a right tilt? Also, do you have an opinion on the Shop Fox cabinet saw?
Thanks,
Big C
Never have used the shopfox saw I have heard that it is the same as a Grizzly but don't know for sure. The nice thing about a left tilt saw is that when doing certain beveled rip cuts the off cut does not become trapped between the blade and the fence. Of course maybe you need one of each:). Anyway I had an instructor who used to joke the the difference between a Powermatic and a unisaw was that one was Green and the other was grey (old colors). I think you would be very happy with either saw.Troy
The cutoff should be outside of the blade, not between the blade and fence unless repeated cuts are being made and even then, there should be a block so the pieces can't be pinched. The piece to the right of the blade is the one that needs to be pushed out. I have the right tilt and only had one sliver shoot out (which I was expecting), and I never stand directly behind the piece that could do that. As was mentioned before, with the stock properly supported, it shouldn't be a problem if both sides of the piece are being pushed at the same speed.The Shop Fox is imported by the same company that imports and sells Grizzly, IIRC. There have been other discussions on table saws and that comparisons have been made between most of the imported ones as far as fit and finish, setup, quality of cut, etc. I'm extremely happy with my green saw and see no reason to buy a grey, lighter green, yellow, or off-white one. I really don't think that the top being .005" off of flat across it whole width or super shiny will make a difference in the quality of the cut. If the bearings are shot, the table wings are warped or the fence is a POS, it matters. Stamped steel wings will work fine if they're set up correctly. I wouldn't recommend one of the older grey saws with the aluminum top, though. If you buy the best one you can afford and set it up properly, you should be able to use it for a very long time. A lot of really good projects have been made on sub-par equipment over the years. A better saw just makes it easier."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 1/22/2006 10:30 am by highfigh
If you've got 220v, and don't mind spending over $1k, I don't think you'll ever regret getting a full size 3hp cabinet saw...it'll outlast your grand kids. Just about any of the good brand names will do...General is one my favorites, PM, Delta, Jet, GI, Grizzly, Shop Fox, Bridgewood...pick a color and a situation you're comfortable with.
The DeWalt mentioned is likely a hybrid...DW746...one of the better hybrids when introduced a couple of years ago. If choosing in that price range and category for a new saw, there are several newer versions in the same price range that offer what IMO is a better Biesemeyer fence and a full cabinet enclosure...some models even offer cabinet mounted trunnions. You'll find good updated versions from Craftsman (22124), GI, Grizzly, Delta, and Jet.
PLease give us an update sometime!
IMO get the Powermatic 66 saw with the Baldor 5hp motor. You will be able to pass it on to your grand kids some day and the will say they have a saw that was made in the USA. good luck. BTW , powermatic web site has a dealer search for powermatic equipment.
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=dealersearch
Are you sure Powermatic 66 is made in the USA? Ever since Jet bought them out, I have heard grumblings that the term made in USA can be deceiving. Taiwan parts assembled in the USA, may qualify as USA made. I do not know for certain but if I were to buy a PM 66 I would personally be interested in the answer... matter fact I am not so hell bent on buying USA, yes it would be a preference, but the USA does not have a corner stone on quality.
Personally, I think the best machine today is Sawstop. From what I have read it is better than General (Canada make, not General International) and Powermatic 66, even when leaving out its safety features. Its safety advantages have been weighing heavily on my mind.
Cheers
If you can afford the Sawstop, I'd say go for it. I think it is considerably more money, but you can't underestemate the value of safety.
Edited 1/26/2006 1:30 am ET by tinkerer2
Hey Dude: The Powermatic 66 is still made in Tennessee. Don't know the ratio of imported parts to USA made but i am pretty sure that majority of the components are USA made. As far as saw stop is concerned i have never used this machine so I cant comment on it. I am not saying the Powermatic is the BEST saw on the market just one of the best still being made and its made the same way after more than 20 some odd years and has a great reliable factor.
As Ben said, according to PM the 66 is still made in the USA. The new PM 2000 cabinet saw is actually made in taiwan however. But, it is a sweet looking saw w/ some really nice features.
As for PM quality, I have the 64A contractor saw w/ the AccuFence (the only USA made part of the saw). In fact I have THREE AccuFences. Why you might ask? Because the first two were virtually unusable. So the "Made in USA" tag does not always make for a better product. While I would like to buy US products, my first concern is quality.
Oh, and PM has lousy customer service as far as I am concerned. Handling the problems I had with PM was a joke. And I just sent them a letter saying I am hard pressed to buy additional PM products without feeling comfortable that they are addressing these issues. Have not heard a word back. Too bad too, because some of their stuff appears top notch still, but if they have bad QC and customer service, I'll go elsewhere.
On a final note, Jet didn't buy PM, the WMH tool group which is a large holding corporation and which also owns Jet, bought PM. A technicality, but a point regardless.
It would be nice to know, if indeed, what percentage of Powermatic 66 pieces is USA made.
My sentiment exactly in regards to USA.
I agree PM 2000 seems sweet. I had my eye on buying one. When purchasing any saw, one must take it on a saw by saw bases and not wether it is made in Taiwan or USA. Yes, given all things equal I would go USA.
I am now leaning towards a Sawstop purchase. Yes, Sawstop is expensive relatively speaking, but the more I thought about the price and piece mind in reducing probabilty of, loss of fingers, kick back, and blade guard removal due crapper splitter, it made sense to me.
Sorry, about AccuFence problems and PM customer service experience.
Thanks for setting me straight about WMH fine point.
The US Federal Trade Commission requires that at minimum 95% of the product cost originates in the USA to claim "Made In USA". I have to assume the WMH Tool Group abides by this. Since so much manufacturing has moved over seas, these days it is very difficult to be able to make this claim and a competitive price. If you will only use a product that is "Made in USA" in your shop, you better buy them all now.
The most important part of a table saw is the fence. A poor fence can/will contribute to kick back. 1000's of people every year get seriously injured by kick back. More than 50% of all saw related accidents are kickback related. A T style fence, like the Biesemeyer, reduces the risk of kick back by holding the fence parallel to the blade repeatedly (you will need to calibrate the fence before use). A fence, like the one on the DeWalt, that locks in the front and back will allow you to set the fence so it is not parallel to the blade (even after calibration), which can cause kickback.
I stongly recommend getting a saw with a T style fence (Biesemeyer). Not only is it very accurate and nice to use, but it is also safer than the alternatives. If you are running 220, you can easily get away with a 3 hp motor. There are a lot of used machines for sale that are in excellent shape, and easier on the budget. I have an 1940's Unisaw with a Biesemeyer fence that runs like new.
Not only the fence but the stock support at the infeed and outfeed. If it's not supported well, it ain't safe!
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
If you buy the Powermatic 66 you will NEVER regret it. Build your own rightside fill-in, an outfeed section, and a fold down left support, and you are set for life.
Big C,
I'm from the school that says 'It's time to stop lusting and start enjoying'. If you want the quality of a cabinet saw, that has you cutting more and tuning up less, produces nice smooth cuts and eliminates the need for other machines(sometimes), then get a cabinet saw.
My logic at decision time, and I think several others, was that I don't do enough to justify one of the big three (powermatic, delta, general). It would be great to buy old iron...but I don't want to become a machine expert, I want to cut wood. Ergo, I bought the Grizzly....a happy medium decision. I'm very hapy with the Griz. However, regardless of my personal decision, any of the saws mentioned have increased in price over the past three years ...and I could probably recoup very near the dollars I paid today...so it really doesn't matter from a cost point. good luck with your decision
I did the same thing. I'm very happy with the 1023. Dead flat, and cuts like the devil. What else do you need.
Personally, I need to make my fold-down outfeed table(s).
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
The new Delta hybrid saw is actually a good deal, it is sturdy but yet affordable. I had a chance to test one at a recent wood show and it worked as good as a heavy cabinet saw. I have a link to the delta website below if you want to look at the specs.
http://www.deltamachinery.com/index.asp?e=136&p=5851
I have a PM and love it. I don't think you could do better for the price. Eighteen hundred approx five years ago. But the new one sure looks good. Now I have a disc on the Laguna -- Boy that is a good looking saw but where do you stop. Just have to decide where to put your top dollar and decide what is best for you at that price.
I have the General 650 (left tilt) It is a fantastic saw. I believe that it is the only saw still made entirely in North America. It has a 3 hp Baldor motor. The fence is the Beismeyer type made for General. It has the robustness of a 66 with what seeems like a tad more refinement. This is a saw you will pass onto to your Grand Children.
Peter
I just put a down payment on a general 50-260 left tilt, getting the saw for $1100 brand new in the box. I haven't seen any 350's on Generals web site. Any difference? Just waiting for my refund:)
The 50-260 is from General International, which is General's import line. $1100 is a great price on that saw. The GI appears to be as good as any other import cabinet saw like the Grizzly, Jet, Shop Fox, etc, but it's not quite at the level of a Canadian made General 350 or 650....few are. For a hobbyist the 50-260 should be awesome. For heavy commercial use you'll likely see some difference over time.
Thanks,
I am really looking forward to the new saw. Had to throw away my 30 year old rockwell contractor saw it got a little fiesty and bit off a couple finger tips a couple of years ago.
John
You guys and your big and powerful and expensive machines! These do not make for a better woodworker. You only need big machinery if you are in business commercially and going through a lot of material. A good quality contractors saw with a 2HP or less motor is good enough for any part time woodworker. The keys to getting the most out of a light duty saw are 1. use the proper blade. 2. Make sure your blade is sharp! 3. Get a saw with a good fence. and 4. Make sure you have good vibration free belts and pulleys. Also you must keep your saw well tuned.
I won't argue with you there! but I got my saw Friday still working out a few bugs, But I do love it! This was an investment that I can pass on to my children. No regrets!
If you are considering the PM 66, take a look at the Laguna TS and you'll very suprised to see that you can get a lot of very useful features that the PM doesn't have for about the same price. Look at my other post under the heading "Cabinet Saw Selection" and check out http://www.lagunatools.com. Good Luck!
I think all of the replys you've had on the subject are valid and excellant suggestions. You could buy any of these "big three" saws and be generally confident that you'll have a saw that will last generations. I do think the cabinet saw is a better choice than a hybrid. I have a Rockwell (Delta) Unisaw that dates back to the early 60's and continues to run perfectly without issue. So here is one more thing to consider. Though I have never had to buy parts for this saw, I spoke to a Delta rep. at a wood show a few years ago and he informed me that parts for all unisaws dating back to 1936 (the first year that they were produced) are available mainly because they have changed the design very little. Being the sceptic I checked into the availbility of certain parts for my model # and was provided a complete parts list on this model with no problem for availability of any of the listed parts (including the vented access door for the front of the old style cabinet). Now, if you buy new this shouldn't be a concern, but could be 20 years from now.
I'm not sure if the Powermatic or General are the same deal but I would expect so.
The Hybrid saws.. I might be concerned about them staying so consistant for the long haul.
Food for thought.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled