Replies

1. 
   DDay | Feb 26, 2005 04:47am | #1

   I've heard very good thing about the makita.  Some over at JLC were so so on the Bosch.  A friend has had the makita for atleast 5 years and said when he needs to it will be replaced with a makita.  Check out amazon, the have a good price on the makita and they have the refurb for about $50 less than new.  Also, the Bosch is out with the laser version of the 4410.

   Ask over in the breaktime forum too.  They'll have a lot to say about how each is in the field

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/25/2005 8:48 pm ET by DDay

2. 
   Olebiker | Feb 26, 2005 04:56am | #2

   I have a Bosch 3915 and could not be more pleased with it.  It is rock-solid, smooth, and easy to keep tuned up.

   Dick Durbin

1. 
   vertis | Feb 28, 2005 05:07am | #7

   I too have that saw and its a very good product 6yrs old and I love it.

3. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Feb 26, 2005 10:25pm | #3

   Have you considered the 12" dual bevel units?  This will likely handle most of your needs.  Dewalt has the 706, Delta has a new one that is great. 

   For a slider, i would opt for the Bosch or Makita.

    

1. 
   donnybongo | Feb 28, 2005 02:43am | #6

   Although I am a big Delta fan I am not too keen on their sliding compounds.

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Feb 28, 2005 07:17pm | #9

   I wasn't talking about the slider.  Just the CMS.

    

1. 
   godfather | Feb 28, 2005 11:46pm | #10

   I have a Hitachi slider which is a great saw.  I recently bought and returned a Dewalt 706.  I would strongly advise to stay away from this and any other Dewalt saw which uses their system to set miters. 

   When tightened down, the movable table will lift up higher than the stationary table next to it.  As much as 1/8th inch!  I cut several bad pieces of crown before I found the problem.  I have tried it on many Dewalt saws and they each do the same thing.  This is a bad design flaw and should be corrected by Dewalt.  I also know several other trim guys in my area who have had bad times with the Dewalt design.

   Their sliding saws use a different type of lock down and dont seem to be affected by this problem, although I have never owned one.

   I am sure the Dewalts are fine for rough construction but I would not use one for crown or furniture building.

   Buy the Hitachi.

    

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Mar 01, 2005 01:04am | #11

   Bob,

   I have 2 dewalts, and neither one does what you have observed.  I wonder if it was a bad production run.  I do High end furniture, cabinetry & crown, haven't had a problem yet with either of mine.  Sure, they may get bumped out of square during transport, that is why I cut test peices prior to doing the installation job.  Not just on my Dewalts, but any saw.  If its portable, it will go out of adjustment.

    

   The Hitachi is a good saw as well.

2. 
   godfather | Mar 01, 2005 02:06am | #12

   Craig,

   Thanks for your thoughts.  I am only saying what I and several others have experianced.  I even went to my local tool shop and had the too manager try this out on a new saw they had just put on the floor with the same results.

   Just try this, put a straight edge (or level) on the saw table furthest away from the back fence.  Turn the table to some degree setting like 47.  Tighten the table down good enough where it will not move when cutting and then see if the everything stays flush without lifting the level.  Honestly, it would be the first one I have seen to stay true and flat.

   Other than that I think it is a great saw.

   Bob

    

3. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Mar 01, 2005 10:10am | #14

   Bob-

   That's one thing that's great about these forums.  Sharing our experiences & knowledge, while tapping into other's as well.  

   I'll try what you've experienced in the next week, but I would think that if It was occurring on my units, I would have noticed it by now.  

    

4. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Mar 01, 2005 10:07pm | #15

   Bob,

   I tried what you outlined on both of my saws, one a 703, other a 706, I could not replicate the problem on either at any angle setting. 

   Maybe you had Monday saws, & I have Wed saws

    

5. 
   godfather | Mar 02, 2005 12:12am | #16

   Thats great Craig.....but anyone who is thinking of buying one of these saws would be well advised to check them out first.

   I have just read of another woodworker with the same problem on Amazon reviews of the 706.

   Bob

6. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Mar 02, 2005 06:03am | #17

   Thats good to know.  Maybe they had a design change or production problems....

7. 
   godfather | Mar 02, 2005 05:25pm | #18

   Craig

   I went to the Dewalt service center yesterday and asked about the table lifting problem with their miter saws.  Their response was this:

   "Yes we are aware that the table will lift somewhat when tightened  firmly at some angles, and when not using the factory detents.  However we have experienced very few returned saws because of this and have no plans to change the design."

   I found this odd.  I would think manufactures who are aware of a problem would try and correct it instead of letting it go until they had enough returns to warrant such a change. 

   Anyway, like I stated before the 706 seems like a good saw and if Dewalt were to fix the problem I would consider buying another.  As for now I will stick with my Hitachi and Makita.  Both are excellent.

8. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Mar 02, 2005 08:14pm | #19

   That is a strange response.  I guess I got lucky with my 2 units. I would guess that with the commodity driven pricing of the box retailers and discounters, there is not much need for them to change the design unless they loose significant market share.  DW has a significant presence in most, if not all retail outlets. 

   I've noticed they have increased the warranty to 3 years now,  Job security for the warranty repair folks.   I guess if you have nothing better to do, you could harass the repair techs for 3 years about the same problem. 

   Attitudes like this and similar experiences are why I am going to higher end products with great customer service & support.  I don't buythe tools  from the box stores any longer.  Outside of a couple of hand tools and spray guns, almost all of my power tool purchases last year were from european manufacturers, made in europe.  How long will it take the other manufacturers to realize their loss of market share?  Maybe never with the increased popularity of woodworking & home improvement DIY'ers. 

9. 
   Darin | Mar 02, 2005 09:25pm | #20

   Craig / Bob

    <!----><!---->

   Very interesting thread. 

    <!---->

   After reading this post I too have checked my 706 only to find the exact same problem you had with yours.  My table rose up over an eight of an inch when tightened down.  Unfortunately I have owned mine for about a year and I doubt Dewalt would be willing to take it back.  I did buy it from Home Depot.

    <!---->

   I am a very picky woodworker and have had problems in the past with this saw and crown in houses and on furniture I have built.  I always blamed myself for the misaligned cuts, looks like I can forgive myself.  Whew….

    <!---->

   I am very disappointed that Dewalt would put out a product like this.  I have also looked at a fellow trim guy’s saw and it also lifts up.

    <!---->

   I think mine might end up on ebay.

    

10. 
    CRAIGCONEY_M | Mar 03, 2005 12:03am | #21

    Darin,

    HD may not take it back, but it should be under warranty.  About a year ago they changed the warranty to 3 years.

     

11. 
    Darin | Mar 05, 2005 04:52pm | #22

    I contacted Dewalt and was told that the saws clamping design does allow some table lifting when tightened down.  I told them this will throw off the angle of cut on large crown molding when cut standing against the fence.  They told me to cut large crown laying flat down to try and avoid this problem. 

    Man, talk about worming your way around a problem.

    None the less its not covered under warranty, its the design.

12. 
    godfather | Mar 06, 2005 02:43am | #23

    Darin,

    It does not surprise me that DeWalt would react this way.  I have talked to quite a few other carpenters who have had problems which would seemingly be covered under warranty but are not.

    I have also been seeking out others in my area on jobsights with DW miter saws to find out if they also have the table lift problem.  Guess what, they all do!  Even the ones who didnt know about it , once I showed them the condition thay all agree that it is a design flaw.

    Now whether or not this will affect your type of usage is up to the individual.  Great for framing, not so good for finish work. 

    Edited 3/6/2005 1:46 pm ET by Bob

13. 
    CRAIGCONEY_M | Mar 06, 2005 02:52am | #24

    I guess they don't cover their design deficiencies under warranty?

2. 
   mudman | Mar 01, 2005 04:23am | #13

   I second the Dewalt 706. It is more accurate and powerfull. Unless you absolutely know you NEED more than a 8" cross cut.

   Mikeplease excuse my spelling.

4. 
   Manchild | Feb 27, 2005 03:19am | #4

   I am also looking at a compound, dual bevel, sliding mitersaw. I haven't been able to compare side to side but am pretty set on a Bosch.

   I don't have any numbers but from experience with other European designed tools I like the way they are quieter most of the time. I'm not sure but there might be requirements for less noise in Europe. I think that the Bosch uses belts and the Makita uses gears. I have an old Makita and the thing is soooo noisy.

1. 
   SPCarpentry | Feb 27, 2005 05:41pm | #5

   I own the 10" Makita. Mine has the halogen lamp, nice feature. I'm a finish carpenter and find that the 10" is fine. It's more of an ego thing to say you have 12", lol. I really like the depth stop, it comes in handy. It has some weight to it but it isn't to bad to move.

    

    All Things Wood!

   Stephen Prunier Carpentry

5. 
   vertis | Feb 28, 2005 05:27am | #8

   the Bosch 3915 is a very good saw,with slider on it you can cross rip 12" with 4/4 stock and if your stock is no wider than 24" you flip the board over and complete the cut.It is very accurate,the 4410 has the motor over the blade which means you could clamp your stock to the right side and the motor does not interfere with clamp my 3915 has that that misfortune but thats only a small complaint check to see how much travell the slider has.Good Luck.