Need Help – Air Compressors and Nailers
I’m just need a few opinions. I have a small (really small) oil less air compressor and 23 gauge pin nailer I bought for a few $$$ on sale a few years back. The pinner actually works great but it leaves a mark. I want to upgrade and have read a ton of stuff but I’m stillfigurinitout. I need the compressor and a framing nailer to build about 100 feet of fence, the kind with 6-inch wide pickets, and a lean to shed on the back of my garage. The shed will be about 8 ft. by 12 ft. No roof shingles, I’m using corrugated sheet metal.
Of course I want to buy a better pinner and I want a trim nailer (16 to 18 gauge), and maybe a future stapler. At first I was looking at the Makita MAC2400 13 Amp 2-1/2 Horsepower 4.2-Gallon Oiled Twin Hot Dog Compressor on Amazon for $269. Advantges are it should last a good long time, quality brand, good reviews, oiled, quieter than comparable models, and probably all the capacity I will ever need. Disadvantages are oil may find way into airstream, heavy, no nailers.
Then I started looking at the Porter-Cable Three Nailer and Compressor Combo Kit, includes 6 Gallon, 150 PSI Pancake Compressor, 1-1/4″ 18-Gauge Brad Nailer – 2-1/2″ 16-Gauge Finish Nailer – and a 1″ Narrow Crown Stapler for $280. And of course no tax, free shipping. Bostitch offers basically the same package for the same price. DeWalt has a very similar model less a stapler. Advantages are nailers are included less the framing nailer, light weight, quality brands, easy access to nails at borgs. Disadvantages are compressors are not lubed and I believe less reliable in the long run, less powerful, louder.
With the downturn in construction, I can pick up a framing nailer almost new at half price at pawn stores. Besides, it only has to last for a few hundred nails. I’m not a carpenter.
My biggest fear is that a pancake will crap out on me in 6 months, even with relatively light use (weekend WWer type work). Also the noise will drive me out of the garage. One other thing, will a pancake like described above drive a framing nailer for the tasks I need to accomplish? I don’t know.
And lastly, I know which oiled compressor I’d buy. I don’t know which of the three pancake combo models I’d buy. By the way, I don’t plan on using the compressor for spray painting or running air tools.
Any suggestions or past experience would be most appreciated?
Replies
Hi,
I have an older version of this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G6C7XQ
Mine doesn't have the cover but is essentially the same. Had it 10 years, run all of the nailers you mentioned with it. It will keep up with a framing nailer.
Never had a problem with it.
Regards,
Scott W.
I looked at that Hitachi at Lowes the other day and I saw no real diference in it and the Makita. The Hitachi is a few $$$ more.
The refurbished models look like a good deal. I've bought a couple of refurb'ed tools I'm quite happy with.
"I looked at that Hitachi at Lowes the other day and I saw no real diference in it and the Makita." Now you're getting to an area that always gives me pause when picking out a tool that costs more than a few bucks. How they look as opposed to how they're built. With a table saw, at least you can gaze inside and compare trunnions, if not bearings. But with these smaller tools, where all the workings are internal, looks can be so deceiving.
One of the mags did a review some time ago on drills. They showed the guts of the different drills, what materials they were made of, size of this 'n that. Made it crystal clear why some drills last much longer than others. Would that we knew such things about the moving parts of a compressor! I have seen the guts of a PC pancake that melted down from user abuse, wasn't a pretty sight.
Sometimes a savvy Knots member can provide such info. Maybe dgreen? He's quite knowledgeable about a broad spectrum of WWing machines. John White was often helpful with such info. I guess downloading parts diagrams is one approach.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I thought all the additional price for the sawstop was due to the new safety feature. My dealer friend corrected my error and walked me through a sawstop, a PM2000 and the Delta. The sawstop is clearly a full cut above in quality and construction methods, even without the safety gear. It is old school rock solid. Not just a pretty face with some new fangled technology. Just goes to show there is always a market for innovative premium quality product. Build it and they will buy. Most of the time, I still get what I pay for. Nowadays there is so much product selection, a person could spend weeks evaluating single phase air compressors. All within $200 of each other. I'm like anyone else, I just hate getting bite, even on a small purchase. I try to buy what I need, not what I can brag about. As they say, buy the good stuff and cry once. It's a worthy goal.
I drove GM products until the mid 80's then bought for foreign. I drove a 1985 MB for 14 years. I sold a 1988 toyota truck with 242K miles. I bought it new. Just pulled regular maintenance. Indestructable.
"I sold a 1988 toyota truck with 242K miles." Yep, I had a friend in the 1980's who had an earlier model. She kept wishing it would die so they could get a new truck, but nothing doing!
Back when I was hauling horses on a regular basis, I always said that if Toyota made a full-sized truck, I'd love to have one. But it turns out when they finally did build one, it had some serious weak point(s). They didn't get the "big, sturdy" concept down right from the get-go I guess.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I own the equivalent of the Porter Cable kit. I have the older version of the compressor, but it appears to be the same mechanicals with a new black plastic shroud on it, that covers the gauges. All the ratings are the same. They didn't have the three gun kit, when I bought mine.
I bought the kit that came with the FN250 16-ga nailer. I bought the BN200 brad nailer, instead of the BN125 that comes in the kit, because the extra 3/4 inch of brad length comes in handy if you are doing trim.
I have the narrow crown stapler and haven't used it much. If I hadn't gotten a good deal on it when Lowes was closing out the PC air nailers, I might regret the purchase, but for $40 it was worth it.
I also have the PC DA250 15-ga angled finish nailer, and like it. There are times it is a little easier to get into the tight spots with. I bought four of them to sell on eBay, when Lowes was closing out the PC nailers. The younger brother borrowed one, (without asking), so I ended up keeping it.
I have had my compressor for about five years now. And haven't had any problems with it, or any of the guns. I've gone through about ten thousand fasteners thus far with out a hitch. The only down side is the noise level, but I have enough hose to put it somewhere else when I am using it.
I have one of the portable air tanks, they sell to fill your tires with, that I have plumbed up as a reserve tank. I put the compressor in another room, run a hose to the auxiliary tank, and then run another hose to the tool. I haven't run a framing nailer from the compressor alone, but I think it would keep up, if you weren't going fast like you do nailing off sheathing.
So, I'm happy with mine, and I feel comfortable recommending it to you.
I'm starting to like the PC combo better and better. The refurb'ed one on amazon is $230 plus $10 shipping, A reasonable price. I can always build a cabinet to reduce the sound. Anything is better than the beater I've got know. Thanks for sharing your experience.
For a compressor, you might check with these folks, http://www.eatoncompressor.com I have had good luck so far with their units.
Pat
I bought my PC pancake compressor 2 years ago. It helped me remodel our 1920's home without any difficulty. (Lots of trim work) and is still running strong. It has been a wonderful addition to my garage. I did have some problems with the guns that come with it. I had to make a few adjustments to the spring in the loader and then they started working great.
Best of luck.
I just bought the PC compressor and 3 nailer kit at Home Depot... but instead of the stapler, it came with the 23 ga. pin nailer. The cost was $279.
Also, it looks PC has come out with oil-less nail guns which are targeted for woodworkers. According to their press release, this is supposed to be better because there's no chance of oil drips.
The pinner actually works great but it leaves a mark.
Every one I ever used DOES it! Unless you can control the air pressure driving the gun and then I'd think you will still have some marks anyway!
maybe you should ask at the breaktime forum, but my opinion is that if you want to run a spiker, you need a minimum of a 10 gallon tank, otherwise the compressor will just keep running, which is not only annoying, but will ultimately lead to burn out. anyway, all these nailers have their air requirements posted somewhere.you should be able to figure out what you're gonna need from that.
The compressor will run the same number of minutes to drive X number of nails whether the tank is 5 gallons or 10. What is important is cfm rating and duty cycle.
................................................
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. Jack London
Still:
I've got that compressor and I use it all day long 5 -6 days a week. Hubby uses it with a pin nailer the 18 gauge and 16 gauge nailers and once and a while the stapler for his kitchen cabinet business. I mostly use it to blow saw dust off my work and also use it with a small ball grinder and couldn't be happier. We've been using it day in and out for over 3 years with no problems at all.
Madison
Still,
I have the Makita MAC2400 and a Grex 23ga. pin nailer. The Makita is quiet but a bit on the heavy side. Still, in my opinion, a very good compressor. The Grex pin nailer is simply a delight. No marks, except for the entry hole. On coarser grain woods, you would be hard pressed to find the pin hole after a light sanding and finishing.
Bob, Tupper Lake, NY
Sounds like someone is looking for an excuse to buy a new tool!
FWIW, you don't really want a framing nailer to make a fence. Use SS screws. (Framing nails are too big, and it's a PIA to find SS nails, which you WILL need.)
You also don't need a framing nailer to build a small lean-to. Carpenters used these things called "hammers" for thousands of years before air nailers were invented. You may be able to find one in a museum or some similar venue. It'll probably still work with minimal restoration on your part. ;-) Or, if you want some real fun, post over on breaktime and ask if you could just use screws for the whole job. (Inside joke. You Breaktime crossovers will get it.)
Just kidding -- sort of. If you need a compressor for shop use, you don't really want, or need, one that's big enough to run a framing nailer nonstop. It'll be a waste of time and money. You of course drain your compressor after each use like you're supposed to, right? Think about needing to fire up a 15-gal compressor, bringing it up to pressure and then draining it just to drive three 23 ga. pins. Waste of time & electricity if you ask me.
If you must get a new compressor, get a nice, small, quiet, suitable compressor for your shop -- pancake or hotdog, your choice. (Do you prefer breakfast or lunch? LOL) Then, if you must use a framing nailer to build your lean-to, rent a rig for a day or two, or buy a Paslode. But a framing nailer is a pretty expensive investment for something that you only plan to use for a few days, and then leave on the shelf for most of its remaining days.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Mike.. Love the post about using Stainless Screws...
A few years ago I made a VERY large deck for my sister-in-law.... My best friend.. She is something...
Anyway. Those skinny' SS deck screws are wonderful! However, VERY expensive.. BUT work AND will last a lifetime!
Maybe an exaggeration, but think the screws were 1/4 the cost of the deck! Her house in about 8500 SF and deck was on three sides. Five feet wide with railings on the sides. About 12 foot wide in the back. I almost died in the hot Sun building it for her... Composite decking on top of a older framing that was in very good shape..
She has money, so I talked her into copper strips that were rolled over the edges of the framing (as in flashing) to protect the existing fir structure... NO, I did not do it. Had some gut come out and he rolled it out out of the back of a big truck like they make rain gutters.
Nails would have ruined it all in two years!
"Those skinny' SS deck screws are wonderful! However, VERY expensive.. BUT work AND will last a lifetime!"
If you think about it, they're really not so "expensive" after all, huh?
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
You a funny guy, I'm sure, on some far far away planet. At first I thought I knew where you were coming from. Your a gorilla man that would rather pounds heads than use one of the new fangled air whatumacallits. More brawn than brains. Why spend hard earned money on frivalities when a $10 hammer will work on such a small job like a piece of fence or a lean to. Then I realized at least you can work a computer. So then I thought you are one of those uppidy trademans that despise the weekend warrior DYIer with disposable income to throw at power tools. What do we amatuers really know about building things and such. Those tools will just sit and rust while the amatuer ventures off into a new interest. What a waste. Finally after giving another 30 seconds of thought I realized probably all of the above is true with a dash of ADD or Aspergers. I would need to read more your posts to make a proper diagnosis. Contact your PCP for additional information. I'm off duty today.
In reality, there are several other projects I would like to build that require a hammer or nailer, but did not mention. The other posters picked up on that. I have more money than time. A nailer is a time saver, except for the real hammer experts like yourself. I could plumb my shop with 10,000 psi air, but why. I'm a weekend warrior. I don't want a more noisy compressor or one that will wear out in six month, even in use by a weekend warrior. That's why I considered the Makita. I never spend more than I need at the time, hence the quest for advice. You advice using screws was considered before I posted and rejected. Otherwise I would have ask what is better to use, screws or nails. Guess you didn't catch that part.
So thanks for giving me the opportunity to use your post as an example of what decent folks looking for a little advice can pass on. Please feel free to post more. We dumb weekend warriors usually don't get it the first time.
Hey, I'm just kidding, no really just kidding. I doubt you are a gorilla man.
Hmm. Nope. No gorillas here. Not an uppity tradesman, and no ADD or AS.
I WAS trying to pass on what I consider good advice, with a little tongue-in-cheek humor, indicated by the use of ":-)" and "LOL". Guess it didn't come across.
I still think you'd be better off sizing a shop compressor for finish nailers, and using SS screws for the fence. I, like many here and probably you as well, was never one to pass up an opportunity to buy a new tool. Hence the advice regarding the Paslode. Still good advice IMHO.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Hell FWIW, I'd have used a hammer and the thing would already be up and serving its intended purpose.As to the OP's original post - reminds me of a woman shopping for shoes. Maybe he can wait for a BOGO event somewhere.... (buy one get one for you guys who aren't married).
Edited 8/25/2008 7:40 am ET by BossCrunk
I read your name wrong. I thought it was BossStud. These durn computer screens. But you are too modest. I bet you use two hammers at one time, probably 2 pounders. One in your hand and one stuck where the sun don't shine bobbing up and down like one of them little fuzzy birdies bobbing on a pole. Hey that was just plain rude and totally uncalled for. From what I can tell, there are a lot of people who respect you on this forum. We all need a little respect, whether we deserve it or not.
When I worked in the Amazon trying to find hydrocarbons, I would take a machete in one hand and stick another up my arse and cut a path turning cartwheels. What a sight.
By the way, I don't shop with my wife to buy shoes, so BOGO is new to me. But thanks for your hard earned information, Stud.
Pretty much got it nailed Hoss. May I suggest Senco and just be done with it?Works every time with my wife when we're in New York and we walk by Prada. Forty five minutes in and out and 800 bucks later I don't have to hear about it for a while. Worth every penny. And she looks great in them.
Edited 8/25/2008 10:26 pm ET by BossCrunk
say chief, picked up one over the weekend. it's a real beaut. thanks for your interest. keep swinging, stud.
What cheap$hit rig did you decide on, the Mickey Mouse combo or the Snow White package?
the micky mouse combo stud, of course. actually no, hey i'm just kidding around with you, jefe. get easier by the moment. want to put it to bed or use up a few more electrons. i prolly know the answer.
;>) :>Q, lol, rotflol, <gggg>
Are you typically this sensitive? Boss can be rough at times, and Mike blunt, but neither of them came off as too condescending IMO. And I say that as a sensitive DIYer who does not appreciate the digs the pros take at my kind.
I was going to suggest a really good compressor that will last as long as that MB or Toyota you drive but I see you got one, so I guess that's all for naught. Hope it serves you well and you get good use out of it.
Most nights are crystal clear, but tonight it's like he's stuck between stations.
ok, thanks. i don't mind answering your question. it has nothing to do with being sensitive. i don't consider myself a sensitive guy. i could care less if i'm considered a nice guy or likable. i got over that phase in high school. i'm not easily used as the brunt of a joke. i'm not a joking kind of guy. i'm not here to play footies with the local yokels. if someone treats me with respect and dignity, they get it back. if someone want to get a few chuckles at my expense, the sword cuts both ways. you teach people how they will treat you. how do you like to be treated, with respect, or as a joke? the choice is yours. in all honesty, i hope you are as happy with your compressor and i am with my vehicles. they are just consumables. thank for the response and take care.
Crunk, Ever see what a hammer can do to in the wrong hands as well as what it can do to the other hand. Don't sell our hammerrin,,, skills short.
I probably got a bit carried away and you probably didn't deserve all of my response. I have no problem with you being cute in front of your WWing buddies, just not at my expense. I've pounded more nails in my day than I care to remember. At my age, I've done a lot of things I would rather forget. I failed to mention that due to injuries, I don't swing a hammer to much these days, especially if I can find another easier way to get the job done. I don't use candles either to light my home, nor do I plow my field behind a mule.
I understand the advantages of using screws and I appreciate your advice. Nails do come loose after awhile and if not galvanized and ring shanked (and sometime if they are) they will leave a rust streak on the wood, and then fall out. But I intend on selling the house in 6 months, so hey to much information, right? And like I said, I just want to upgrade my small compressor to one I can use in my amateur WWing endeavors and maybe a few more uses. I failed to mention I would also like to use a framing nailer to help build a few items other than a fence and shed, like housing renovation for my church outreach program (our version of HforH), and my rental properties. No heavy use, just occasional. I contract out the big repairs and my chucrch is not putting up a house a week. That's all. No big deal. It's all good. I'm gonna leave this subject now. Take care.
Just another comment..
I'd think you judged Mike a bit more than HARSH! He tells it like it is.. and I have NEVER seen ANY hate in his words! Just comments he thinks are correct..
No hate here either but thinks your a bit touchy or maybe had a bad day?
Mike give all sorts of good advice.. But then again.. Who are we all in here.. Fake or Real.. I'd say Mike is real and then some .. He is, as he is.. You are You, and that is that.. Just different ideas about things... You may both be wrong or both correct... I have no idea which is which...
I'd say, do not judge others on a first thought! What make wars! When all we wanted is to be helpful in OUR WAY! Hell, We have no idea what YOU think! Not that what you think is that wrong.. Just have no idea what you think!
Have a great DAY! anyway.. I'd say!
from one old man to another, you have a great day also. Thanks.
A bit condescending, Don't you think Mike?
Hmmm. Not meant to be -- guess I needed a few more smileys. ;-(
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Yathink....
I bought the MAC700 and the best part is it's sooo quiet. I do not mind being in the same room with it for hours at a time. If I needed a compressor for a framing nailer, I would buy the MAC2400 in a heart beat.
My two cents on nailers. I have both the Ridgid 18 guage brad nailer, and a Ridgid 16 guage straight finish nailer. They are both fantastic. If I was buying a framing nailer, I would look at Hitatchi. Check out http://www.reconditionedsales.com
I bought the PC pancake + two nailers (16&18) and stapler (18) about a year and a half ago, and other than it being very loud I have no complaints. I'm a pretty light user, though. I have never had any capacity issues using it properly, although it got a bit winded and needed a few cycles when I used it to inflate a swimming pool for the kids. (Still beat using a hand pump.) I have noticed that there seems to be a very slight leak somewhere so that it needs to recharge about every 6 hours or so, although this is almost never an issue for me. I've been very happy with the nailers and staplers. I recently got a Grex pin nailer, which works a charm without any marks.
I bought a Sears pancake compressor six years ago.. and about three years later bought another one on sale against the day the first one crapped out.
I've yet to use the new one. And I bought a brad nailer, finishing nailer and framing nailer all from Sears and they work great.
I am pretty much in the same boat as Jigs-N-Fixtures. I have pretty much all the PC tools in the kit you mention and have used them all a lot over the last 5 years. No problems and the compressor even keeps up with a framing nailer if not using heavily (used it to nail some laminated beams together and it pooped out after about 30 quickly place nails leaving the rest sticking out a bit). Main problem is how loud the compressor is.
soak, see my reply to forestgirl, i decided my world is a better place with less noise. i probably could have gotten by with the pc or other combo if not for the dbs. i'm also a little bit leary of the oiless model, but with my limited use, it likely would have not mattered. thanks for the heads up.
SFIO: I'm ignoring all the BS, going straight to the point, LOL. I bought the PC pancake when $$ was a serious issue. It works great, as does the brad nailer, but if I were buying now, when $$ isn't quite so constrained, I'd get something quieter! That PC really does make a RACKET. If you're using yours as much as you've outlined, you'll appreciate a quieter unit.
Thanks forestgirl. Civility is worth the effort. Noise was one of my biggest concerns. When stacked against each other there is probably not a dimes worth of spit difference at this price point, except for the noise. I looked at a portable Ingersol Rand model and a model suggested by another poster but chose the Makita MAC5200. It arrived today so I'll put it together tomorrow and let you know if my ears are ringing much. I'll depreciate it over the next year and give it to the church for a charitable contribution, if it still runs. They will be using it twice a month anyways. I can always buy another or upgrade, when I've used it enough to make a decision. I do like having two couplers and the portability will help out around the house and job sites. Just roll it up on the tommylift and go. I just could not get my mind around an oiless model, and the associated noise factor.
I bought a PC round head nailer, I think Model FC350, for a song from a dealer friend. Came with a cae and he gave me a roll of hose. He owed me one, otherwise I may have shopped around more. We shot a few nails and I'm fine with it. Good clean fun. I haven't bought a pinner or trim yet. Any thoughts? Thanks for the advice.
One of the quietest compressors on the market is the Senco PC1010. It's a little guy so it won't have power for a framer or roofer but for finish and trim work it'll be your best friend. It's no louder than your table saw.
http://www.senco.com/con_rem/ViewTool.aspx?toolid=175
Edited 8/27/2008 8:57 pm ET by mvflaim
thanks to everyone who gave me some good, if not entertaining information. see you next time i need a bit of help.
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