Replies

1. 
   wrudiger | Jul 07, 2005 08:37am | #1

   Congratulations!  I know the feeling - just happened a couple of months ago for me.  One coat shellac and 2 coats waterborne conversion varnish on maple.  Looked amazing when it was done.  Once I got it up I did notice that the finish wasn't as smooth as I'd hoped - I either need to turn up the volume or slow down the pass.  Regardless, big fun - a whole new world of possibilities! 

   Not only that, now that I have the compressor I "justified" an 18ga nailer - assembling cabinet cases just got 10 times easier!

   Enjoy!

1. 
   Pondfish | Jul 07, 2005 03:52pm | #3

   I hear you about the brad gun -- I picked up the cheap 18 gauge Grizzly gun ($23!) and just made about 60 feet of custom molding with it.  What a difference!  But for cabinet assembly, I thought you needed a 16 gauge brad?  I still use screws (finish head, they go in great and don't need pilot holes or countersinking, and only a small patch to cover them.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

1. 
   Sancho | Jul 07, 2005 04:40pm | #4

   Dave...

   believe me when I say I feel your joy... ever since I bought my lvlp finishing has become the best part of the project...Its like taking a dull piece of wood and in a instant it becomes beautifull

      

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1. 
   GrGramps | Jul 07, 2005 05:26pm | #5

   Dave, I'm another who is interested in the HVLP (conversion?) gun that you bought and the compressor powering it.  Details may help me in deciding what I need to buy.

   Roy

2. 
   wrudiger | Jul 07, 2005 06:57pm | #6

   I just use the nailer to pin the cases before screwing.  I'm building euro-style using 3/4" prefinished maple plywood.  I used to use biscuits for alignment, with glue in the slots (can't do the edge cause the glue won't stick to the finish); clamp then screw.  Now I just align by feel (no biscuits), shoot a nail & move on.  Once the screws are in they are rock solid.  (Oh yea, I'm using 3/4" backs as well 'cause for me the 3/4" prefinished is the same price as the 1/2" - face applied - VERY strong - and much faster than messing around with dados, etc.)

1. 
   Pondfish | Jul 07, 2005 08:05pm | #7

   Thanks for the clarification -- your method for nailing, glueing and screwing makes good sense.

   The 3/4 back -- is this inset into the case instead of using dados?  I didn't quite understand your last comment.  I currently use a 3/4 nailer with 3/4 spreaders on top; strength, but less weight.  You do need to cut dados, but they go fast enough.  Be interested to hear how you do it.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

1. 
   wrudiger | Jul 07, 2005 10:38pm | #8

   The back is the same size as the finish height & width of the box.  It is screwed to the back and basically locks it in to square.   Crude but effective.  I'd rather put my limited time into making nice drawers and doors.

   This is all for a DYI kitchen, with 48 drawers & pullouts and 16 doors.  The prototype was the laundry (photo attached).  I'm on vacation this week and next; I'll have all the case parts cut today and hopefully start assembling the 20 cases.  They need to get installed the first week in Aug in time for painting and final finish on the floor; I'll probably be building drawers till Christmas :-)

   OK, lunch break's over - back to work!

   
2. 
   ram | Jul 15, 2005 08:53pm | #19

   Some "prototype" - those cabinets look great!  How did you hang them?  If there was a gap, for e.g. if you used french cleats, did you put a trim piece on the bottom back?

3. 
   wrudiger | Jul 16, 2005 02:19am | #20

   Ram,

   Thanks for the compliments.  I actually learned a ton doing these - what procedures worked and what ones I needed to adjust. Even little things like needing to make the wall scribes 9/16" instead of 3/4" to allow for the little rubber door bumpers. Better to find that out in the laundry than the kitchen :-)

   The back wall was a mess - bowed in two dimensions.  I ended up running strings and then attaching veritcal shim strips to get it all lined up.  Since the backs of the upper units are 1/2" ply I just screwed them into the wall with 3" wood screws.

   Another thing I learned is to bolt the units together before attaching them to the wall (uppers and lowers)! There isn't any play in the euro-style cases and it's a real bear to line everything up after they are attached to the wall. 

   Wayne

2. 
   Pondfish | Jul 07, 2005 03:50pm | #2

   I'm about to take the plunge--what kind of gun and compressor do you use?  My current compressor is underpowered and TOO NOISY!  I'm looking for a quiet compressor and a gun that I can shoot shellac, lacquer or even paint with a bigger tip.

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
1. 
   DaveR | Jul 08, 2005 05:41am | #9

   Paul,
   I use a compressor I bought off ebay from a local seller. It is a ingersol rand 60 gal 5hp model (15.1 CFM). He was going out of business and it was rarely used and less than a year old. ($1100 new) Saved at least $400. Probably an overkill, it could probably power 2 or 3 sprayers at once. Though I use it for other applications other than spraying. For the gun I used a porter cable PSH-1 gravity feed (conversion) HLVP gun. On amazon it sells for $69.99 and has rave reviews. Since it is a gravity feed it is really easy to clean (no tubing), and has a wide variety of materials it can spray. I looked at numerous other guns and it seems as though you don't gain much over the porter cable until you are in the $300 ballpark. I don't know how much you know about compressors, but you will also need a air dryer to get the moisture out. (<$50). I started with a shellac (blond dewaxed) for the base coat 1.5 lbs per gallon of denatured alcohol, which is supposedly easy to use, and a water based precatalyzed lacquer (also known for ease of application and less toxic) for the top coat. At least for making cabinentry, it is well worth the plunge for finishing. Good luck,
   Dave

1. 
   Pondfish | Jul 08, 2005 04:02pm | #10

   Many thanks - your informoation is extremely helpful.  The compressor sounds great, with that rating CFM you could easily run air sanders as well (which is something I was looking to do).  Is the Rand compressor quiet?  I'm looking at whether to site a compressor in a separate room and run more piping.  Should lose too much pressure and CFM with 50 more feet of pipe, but I haven't looked at it yet.

    Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

1. 
   DaveR | Jul 08, 2005 07:01pm | #12

   Paul,
   For Ingersol being such a big compressor, it is surprisingly quiet. You can easily carry on a conversation while it is running in the garage. You can stand pretty close (2 feet) without it hurting your ears. I can only compare it to the much smaller craftsman I USED to own. That thing was so loud I had to wear hearing plugs to keep my ears from ringing. The neighbors could always hear me out in the garage. It couldn't keep up with anything, so it was running continously. I practically gave it away on ebay. For the Ingersol, I have been extremely happy with it. Before plugging it in, l I was going to separate it off from the rest of the garage, but since it is pretty quiet I haven't felt the need. And my neighbors, (and my sleeping wife) can't hear it!What are you wanting to use a pneumatic sander for? I had thought about getting one, but am waiting till my last electric one dies. Seems most people think electric is better. Though mine gets awful warm to touch, and I hear the pneumatic are smoother on vibrations (for my carpal tunnel) and lighter (for my lateral epicondylitis...)Dave

1. 
   Pondfish | Jul 08, 2005 08:45pm | #13

   Funny you heard electric sanders are better -- I heard from someone that he found pneumatics better.

   One reason I would favor pneumatics is for wet sanding finishes.  I cringe every time I do it with either water or naphtha solvent, knowing the risk of shock or fire.  No such problems with pneumatics sanders.  I wonder about dust collection with pneumatics, though.

   Thanks for all your info.  Many, many options to choose from and it seems that it's best to start with the right compressor.  I could see putting it in the garage and running pipes with ports in a couple of places in the shop, with a central water/crud trap just inside the shop before splitting the lines with a manifold.

   Cheers,

   PaulRecommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

2. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 13, 2005 08:24pm | #15

   60 gal 5hp model ... Dang ya spraying a battle cruiser?

1. 
   DaveR | Jul 14, 2005 05:36am | #16

   You will see how frustrating a small compressor can be trying to paint. Though I had to drop the pressure down to 150 psi, kept tripping my 220 circuit when it was going to 175 psi. dave

2. 
   Walker1 | Jul 08, 2005 06:55pm | #11

   Once you have air you will use it a lot, so make sure you buy a big enough compressor the first time, Dave's right 5 hp 60 gal is perfect, make sure it's upright model with 2 stage comp.,and can deliver min. 15 cfm at 90 psi.The air dryer Dave's referring to is called moisture trap or water trap. This is something you should not cheap out on, its the only thing keeping the water out of your tools and your spray gun, and make sure it has a good air flow regulator built in.    On the hottest days in summer even a good one will have trouble keeping the water out. Go ahead and put that unit where you want, the more pipe the better.Two reasons why ,first more pipe equals more air storage, second and more important,while that air is travelling through all that pipe it' cooling before it get's to your water trap. It's more difficult to remove moisture from hot air.And no all that pipe will not affect your cfm. One more thing make sure you run 10 gauge wire directly from your breaker box to you motor. Also go to an autobody supply store and pick up a couple of plastic disposable oil & water separators they mount between your gun and air hose, so if you ever have a little moisture on those hot days your still in business. Don't throw away after one use they last awhile.   

3. 
   dukeone | Jul 09, 2005 06:50am | #14

   Dave: I have had similar experiences. Bought a HVLP / Turbine rig and was afraid to use it not knowing if I might ruin my work. When I got the nerve to try it I was amazed how easy it was and how nice it came out the first time! The only down side it cleaning up after solvent based material, but even that is not so bad considering the time it takes to finish anything larger then a breadbox otherwise.

   Enjoy, KDM

   Kenneth Duke Masters
   The Bill of Rights
   December 15 1791
   NRA Endowment Member
   LEAA Life Member
   CRPA Member
4. 
   dovetaylor | Jul 15, 2005 03:47am | #17

   Hi Dave, just a note if you don't have a plastic bowl on your gun.

   Don't leave shallack in your alloy gun as it will eat it.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 15, 2005 04:41pm | #18

   Hi Dave, just a note if you don't have a plastic bowl on your gun.Don't leave shallack in your alloy gun as it will eat it.

   Could you explain further?.. Not fighting.. Just curious...

1. 
   dovetaylor | Jul 18, 2005 01:14am | #21

   I was told that shellack will eat aluminun if left in the gun.

   Have not experienced it, just read about it.