Dear Fellow woodworkers
I am considering building a Spndle Flat-Arm Morris chair. I have never built one before and am trying to choose between white and red oak. White is the traditrional choice but I am concerned about the reliability of the white oak available to me, as well as the weight of the eventual chair in white oak and finishing options (I don’t plan to fume the wood). Is there a compelling reason NOT to use red oak, which I have used for other projects, is easier to find and which is a wood I know quite well?
Any comments or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Zav
Replies
For my money, the white oak takes a much nicer finish than the red oak.
But since you've done a lot of work with red oak, why don't you get a small chunk of white oak, finish it, and judge for yourself..............
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"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
Zav,
This won't help you make your decision but I thought it might help you decide to make more than one chair. My first real woodworking project was 2 slant arm Morris chairs out of red oak. The one thing I do know is that if there are more than two people in the den, they fight over who gets the chairs and who has to sit on the couch.
ASK
Thanks for the input. How does the red oak hold up over time in the Morris chair? I will be making a second one but thought I'd get the experience (and mistakes!) by making one first. I also don't want the extra management and handling challenges of making two!
Zav
Zav,
These are the chairs, table and ottomans. I made some design changes because I didn't have plans or details at the time.
ASK
Red Oak has more and larger pores. Not as attractive in my opinion.Regards,
Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
I agree BUT for a outdoor chair?
If you use a grain filler to seal the pores before finishing, Red oak takes nice even finish. I am making kitchen cabinet doors from Red Oak and they turn out fine.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
I use red oak cus cheeper.. Well, much more expenis' to finish it! Did I save anything?
Quarter-Sawn White Oak is traditional, better looking and is regarded by some, me included, as the best steam-bending wood there is. I prefer fuming, especially for a one-off because the problem with fuming multiples is the inconsistancy from piece to piece. Some (I) call it character, others call it flawed. QSWO is much less porous than red oak so it stains very nicely with NGR stains like Behlen's Solarlux or w/b dyes like Transtint. I have made 24 A&C chairs, plus another set of 8 contemorary dining chairs. Chairs are a nightmare of nooks and crannies and the slightest sanding imperfections will jump right out at you when you stain. This is just another advantage of fuming. However you finish your chair, I strongly recommend prefinishing the components after fitting, but before assembly. Just mask the tenons and stuff the mortises with paper. I use "RooGlue" because it dries clear. Even if you're only going to make one be sure to make patterns and story sticks so when you change your mind you'll be all set to go.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Quartersawn white oak is the traditional material to make Morris chairs.
I have made a chair and a display cabinetwith quartersawn white oak.
This material is very easy to work and has a quality that you can only get from white oak. I have a plan if interested.
fine looking work. Did you bend the arms or did you cut then from thick stock?Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
I started with a 5/4 quartersawn board, split into 3 equal thick pcs. on the band saw
plane and laminate on a jig keeping the grain in check. works well
I am not sure if Red or white is more weather resistant.. I would suppose White is.. But not sure.. I use both and some things I have made for outdoors have both woods in it.. I never seen a difference!
White oak is one of the best outdoor woods there is, bar none. It has what are called tyloses, which plug the fibers and prevent water from being wicked up. Red oak does not have tyloses, which means water will wick up into the wood. To illustrate this, you can take a small piece of red and white oak, and try to use them like a straw to suck water through. It won't work with the white oak. You can also do this test if you're not sure what kind of oak you have.
White oak is still the wood of choice for for wooden barrels, and is still used for fence posts and railroad ties among other things. It can be difficult to tell red from white by looking at the heartwood, as the color can vary quite a bit.
The bigger issue in my opinion is quartersawn vs. flat sawn. White oak can be difficult to find, but red oak quartersawn is about impossible to find. Stick with the white oak quatersawn for all of the reasons stated so far. Yes, its a heavy mother of a chair, but sits like a throne. There are some excellent plans out there also.
Get the cushions in done leather if you can find that in your budget. I started mine in cloth upholstery, but eventually redid them in a deep red glove leather...sinful. Let me know if you need a good upholsterer.
Given all the work you'll be putting into this fine chair, I'd strongly suggest going with white oak. Red oak is much, much fussier to finish because of the large pores. Also with red oak you will not get the same beautiful rays that are prevalent in Qsawn white oak.
If you really, truly can't find good Qsawn white oak locally, you might ask around here and a couple other forums and line up a reliable, quality on-line source for ordering.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I certainly wouldn't worry about the reliability of white oak - most of the morris style furniture is (was) made from quarter sawn white oak and it's lasted around 100 years.
Red oak would work too, but wouldn't be "traditional". Get some pieces of each and stain/finish them and go with whichever one you like best.
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